Template:Did you know nominations/The Fountainhead (play)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:36, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
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The Fountainhead (play)
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Ivo van Hove in 2010
... that a reviewer noted that the 2014 play The Fountainhead by stage director Ivo van Hove (pictured) after Ayn Rand's "ode to capitalism" was an hour too long?Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Lei Jieqiong
Created by RL0919 (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk at 15:49, 6 December 2017 (UTC).
Long enough, new enough. Well cited, well-written article. Earwig's tool states copyvio unlikely. Article has two images, one with OTRS ticket so okay, the other non-free but qualifies for fair use. Hook is short enough and sourced, but not as neutral as it can be (consider merging in European 'electrifying theatre' review). Seems like RL0919 is the author. @Gerda Arendt: are you the nominator or author or both? If RL0919 is the author, please correct the credits. I await a more neutral hook. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:47, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you, so sorry about forgetting over reading the article for a hook to mention that RL0919 created it (and had asked me to nominate on my talk). - I am not sure about a hook having to be neutral, - I thought just attracting attention. I didn't simply want to say: it's four hours long. Would you rather like "essentially one really sick soap opera"? "electrifying" is about as commonplace as it can get, nothing specific to the piece. 200 chars is too little for a production that brought the Ring cycle to the mind of a reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKHOOK, under content #2 guideline, the hook should be neutral. How about:
- ALT1: ... that European reviewers praised the 2014 play The Fountainhead, an adaptation of a best selling novel by Ayn Rand, while American reviewers criticized it?
- ALT2: ... that reviewers are sharply divided over the 2014 play The Fountainhead, an adaptation of a best selling novel by Ayn Rand?
- Or something else. It reads a bit more neutral, less one-sided bashing / praising. I suggest the European / American add, because I would have expected it the other way around!, why I feel this might be hooky to those who have read Ayn Rand's novel(s). But to those who have not, the hook or the subject may not connect. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 19:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
- Open to discussion. I think "an hour too long" is very mild and somewhat cute/quirky criticism, while praised/criticised is something that could be said about almost every play. French also criticised, so the "European" generalization doesn't quite work. I tried to give a little summary about the novel, for those who have not read it, by the quote, while I find "best-selling" again something rather pale that could be said about many novels. - RL0919, what do you think. Anything "Hooky" that could go to the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:20, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
- The hook thing is the aspect of DYK that I have the most trouble with. Maybe something like "... that theatre director Ivo van Hove decided to adapt The Fountainhead for the stage after being given a copy of the novel as a gift"? RL0919 (talk) 20:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- I guess that is something which can be said about many plays after books. Also, the hook should bold the title of the play, not the novel. My question was different: is there something in the sources (which you know better than we) that could go to the article for a hook, because everything we claim has to be in the article (not only in a source). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt is spot on. Creating hooky hooks while respecting NPOV and other hook guidelines is an art indeed. Lets see if @Yoninah: and @BlueMoonset: can help us... any suggestions? Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I saw I was pinged. I also like the "hour too long" hook. By "neutral", I assume Ms Sarah Welch is saying that the hook can't be too negative or too positive, but we've run many hooks that are that way as long as they're cited to someone, like a reviewer. As opposed to stating as fact that something is overly negative or overly positive. I added a fact to the article about the length of the original novel from one of the sources; maybe we could play around with that:
- ALT3: ... that The Fountainhead, a 2014 play directed by Ivo van Hove (pictured), turned Ayn Rand's 700-page epic novel into a four-hour-plus production? Yoninah (talk) 22:52, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- I like that the best so far. This is why I don't try to write hooks myself! RL0919 (talk) 22:55, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- I like the idea, but would like to give Hove the playwright credit, and think "epic novel" should be enough without "700-pages" because that number will vary with editions. If another number, then the year of the novel, because many seem surprised that Hove cared enough, after all these years. Trying:
- I like that the best so far. This is why I don't try to write hooks myself! RL0919 (talk) 22:55, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt is spot on. Creating hooky hooks while respecting NPOV and other hook guidelines is an art indeed. Lets see if @Yoninah: and @BlueMoonset: can help us... any suggestions? Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- I guess that is something which can be said about many plays after books. Also, the hook should bold the title of the play, not the novel. My question was different: is there something in the sources (which you know better than we) that could go to the article for a hook, because everything we claim has to be in the article (not only in a source). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- The hook thing is the aspect of DYK that I have the most trouble with. Maybe something like "... that theatre director Ivo van Hove decided to adapt The Fountainhead for the stage after being given a copy of the novel as a gift"? RL0919 (talk) 20:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Open to discussion. I think "an hour too long" is very mild and somewhat cute/quirky criticism, while praised/criticised is something that could be said about almost every play. French also criticised, so the "European" generalization doesn't quite work. I tried to give a little summary about the novel, for those who have not read it, by the quote, while I find "best-selling" again something rather pale that could be said about many novels. - RL0919, what do you think. Anything "Hooky" that could go to the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:20, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKHOOK, under content #2 guideline, the hook should be neutral. How about:
- Thank you, so sorry about forgetting over reading the article for a hook to mention that RL0919 created it (and had asked me to nominate on my talk). - I am not sure about a hook having to be neutral, - I thought just attracting attention. I didn't simply want to say: it's four hours long. Would you rather like "essentially one really sick soap opera"? "electrifying" is about as commonplace as it can get, nothing specific to the piece. 200 chars is too little for a production that brought the Ring cycle to the mind of a reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT4: ... that Ivo van Hove (pictured) wrote and directed in 2014 the play The Fountainhead, turning Ayn Rand's 1943 epic novel into a four-hour-plus production? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
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for ALT3 / ALT4. Thank you all, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:54, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
