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Template:Did you know nominations/The Indian Church

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:16, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

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The Indian Church

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The Indian Church
The Indian Church

Created by Dr.K. (talk). Self-nominated at 05:33, 25 January 2017 (UTC).

  • Nominated one day after creation, and certainly long enough, satisfying length and date criteria. The text is about 6975 characters, of which just under half (3282) is quotations; there is sufficient original text to qualify for DYK. The quotations "felt the subject deeply", "The house must have bewitched...", and "The flat front of the building..." have no citation. (Citations must be included for all quotations, and must be attached where the sentence ends.) The quotation "Just once was I angry..." has no closing quotation mark. Harris' purchase is cited, but cited sources indicate he hung it in his house, there's no mention of "dining room" in either source. (It's mentioned on page 98 of Jensen's book, though.) [Although you provide page ranges for your sources, could you provide more specific info in each citation, for example using {{rp}} or similar tools. Hunting through refs to verify details is...irritating.] The fragment "church inside its green environment" sounds odd; what about using "within" instead? (That's not required for DYK approval, though.) I'm not sure why ref 8 is included, as all quotations in that paragraph are to ref 7 (ref 8, footnote 47 confirms the details, but I don't think that's necessary). Overall, this article is in good shape, and only needs a few citations attached (I've already verified the quotations with the appropriate sources.) Mindmatrix 17:18, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
  • The hook is OK and is sourced in the text. The image is of a 1929 painting, which is PD in Canada and in all countries with a copyright term of 70 years after an artists death (Carr died in 1945). It is suitable at the scale required for DYK. QPQ completed. Mindmatrix 17:18, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
  • "Bewitched" and "dining room" are from ref [2] which also includes the quotations mentioning the two facts:

    Phyllis Marie Jensen (14 December 2015). Artist Emily Carr and the Spirit of the Land: A Jungian Portrait. Routledge. pp. 97–100. ISBN 978-1-317-51886-0. At this stage, several paintings are best described as transitional as they blend her First nation Art with her later focus on the land. Indian Church (1929) is a prime example of this transition. Lawren Harris praised it, bought it, hung it in his dining room, sent it to exhibitions and bequeathed it to the Art Gallery of Ontario. [...] Emily tells of seeing her painting Indian Church (1929) in Harris's Toronto home and thinking "The house must have bewitched this thing! It was better than I thought." Yet, she found herself unable to look at it because people were saying kind things and she was unused to praise and felt embarrassed.

    The sentence Davis remarks "The flat front of the building and the geometric crispness of its shape contrast markedly with the organic volume of the tree boughs and the shallow recession into the forest... is a direct quote from the Ann Davis book and the Ann Davis reference is at the end of the paragraph. All sentences in the Ann Davis paragraph are verified by the Davis reference at the end of that paragraph. I chose not to clutter the Davis paragraph, or any other paragraph, by adding the same reference at the end of each sentence, within the same paragraph. Also a sentence in the article mentions that Carr in her autobiography "felt the subject deeply" and the autobiography is reference [4] page 304 at the end of the sentence: In her autobiography, Carr wrote that she "felt the subject deeply". She painted it at Friendly Cove, near a lighthouse.[4]. I included ref [8] because it includes reference to Davis's "new interpretation" evaluation of the painting. In any case, I have added citations closely to the descriptions you mentioned and made other small adjustments. Please let me know if you have any further concerns. Dr. K. 18:10, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
  • @Dr.K.: You didn't need to post all that; as I parenthetically stated at the end of my review "I've already verified the quotations with the appropriate sources." I'm giving this a tick, because it satisfies the DYK requirements, but I would strongly recommend replacing some of the quoted material with original text, as the second half of the article is essentially a quote farm. I would also strongly suggest adding citations at the end of sentences where they occur (eg - "...a sympathetic version of a faith she shared.") because if another editor rearranges the text in the future, the citation at the end of the paragraph will be worthless and attribution for the quotation will be lost (see also WP:INTEGRITY). Mindmatrix 21:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Well, at the end of your comment you may indeed have said that you have verified the quotations etc., but you also left a question mark with half a page-worth of remarks. So I addressed all the points that I thought were holding back the approval of the DYK. As far as adding citations at the end of each quotation, you just can't please everyone. I used to do exactly the thing you are suggesting, until someone complained that I was cluttering the whole paragraph with unnecessary citations and that a single citation at the end of a paragraph would suffice for that paragraph. I'm surprised you haven't come across a similar discussion. Dr. K. 23:19, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I've run into it a few times, and I always find sentences without citations annoying. I add a citation to every sentence (except the intro) for all my articles. At any rate, I won't belabour the point. Mindmatrix 19:31, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't disagree. That would be my preferred way of using citations as well. Dr. K. 00:36, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Reaffirming approval. Mindmatrix 19:31, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
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