Template:Did you know nominations/Tom Rees (British soldier)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Gatoclass (talk) 11:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Tom Rees (British soldier)

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... that Tom Rees (pictured) was the first person killed by the German flying ace known as the Red Baron?

Created by Doug Coldwell (talk), 7&6=thirteen (talk), MerielGJones (talk), Makeyen talk. and AustralianRupert (talk). Nominated by Doug Coldwell (talk) at 13:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC).

Reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/German Whip

Created less than 5 days ago, article has the required number of characters, is neutral and has the required in-line citations. There was a minor copy vio issue with one of the sources [1], but it should not be too difficult to clean up the one or two problem areas. The hook itself was interesting. It is less than 200 characters. All in all, no reason not to promote once the copy vio gets cleaned up. Also, is there any reason you are not including the common domain picture of Rees in the article? Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Let's see if I can fix the copy vio issues. I reworded the issues brought up by the Duplication Detector. I tried to correct the ones that were not referenced. Did I get them all that was necessary?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

G'day, Doug, thanks for fixing those. The MiD nomination probably could have been kept as it was a direct quote in quote marks, as long as the citation to the reference from where the quote came was placed directly after it, which in that case I believe it was at the end of the sentence. Anyway, it's a minor point and I'll move on now; thanks for your persistence. Have a great day. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and comments. Looks like we are all done now and it is just a matter of waiting until the day it becomes an official DYK. BTW, love your accent!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:09, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment: - Article name has been changed to Tom Rees (British airman). If that effects this nomination, can someone fix the parts necessary as I technically don't know how. Thanks!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:18, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok, copy vio issues taken care of and picture meets all requirements. I've changed where the hook links to in accordance with your comment, but someone else is going to need to make any other needed changes. All in all, good to go. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment Article reflects that he was the first aviator officially (that is "confirmed") killed by the Red Baron. Maybe the hook should be altered. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:36, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but I feel compelled to pull this back from prep. The Red Baron was in the cavalry before he was a flier, and he may very well have killed someone in that capacity. (I feel queasy talking about this so offhandedly, but anyway...) The article says something like Rees was the RB's "first official kill" but that's clearly in the context of flying. I'm guessing that a safer hook is:

ALT1: that Tom Rees (pictured) was the first Allied flier killed by German flying ace Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron"?

-- but this needs to be traced back to the sources to make sure what we say is really right. EEng (talk) 22:03, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

That has the same problem as the one you identified in the original hook.

ALT2: * ... that the first person killed by the WWI German flying ace known as the Red Baron in his string of 80 official air combat victories was Tom Rees (pictured)?

I don't see what you're saying about ALT1, which says "first Allied flier killed" versus ALT0's "first person killed", and person was the whole problem. Am I missing something? I see what you're trying to do with ALT2, but it seems a bit... heavy. EEng (talk) 05:06, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

It seems a bit "heavy"? Well, it's specific, and there's not much alternative to that given the nature of your original objection. But with regard to ALT1, as I said it has the same problem as the one you identified in the original hook, namely, that we don't know if Rees was the first airman killed by Richtofen, given that Richtofen is said to have shot down a couple of aircraft before his first official kill. Gatoclass (talk) 05:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I see -- I missed that. EEng (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

80 credited aerial combat victories (that list counts planes vanquished, not aviators killed, wounded or captured). As the Rees article notes, he probably had two prior uncredited aerial combat victories on the Eastern front. Rees was the first kill in the first of 80 credited aerial combat victories by the Red Baron. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 09:54, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that Tom Rees (pictured) was killed in the first official victory by the German flying ace known as the Red Baron?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

That's good, though to me by German flying ace Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron" reads smoother, but either way seems fine. EEng (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)