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Template:Did you know nominations/Treaty of Potsdam (1805)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:53, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

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Treaty of Potsdam (1805)

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  • ... that the 1805 Treaty of Potsdam was signed near the tomb of Frederick the Great? "Treaty of Friendship between Russia and Prussia concluded ... by the tomb of Friedrich II in Garrisonkirche in Potsdam" (p 1829)
    • ALT1:... that the 1805 Treaty of Potsdam was superseded by the Treaty of Schönbrunn signed just 42 days later? Source: Roberts, Andrew (2014). Napoleon: A Life. Penguin. ISBN 9780698176287. Treaty of Potsdam signed 3 November, Schönbrunn 15 December 1805.
    • ALT2:... that the 1805 Treaty of Potsdam committed Prussia to joining the War of the Third Coalition but was effectively ended by the Battle of Austerlitz less than a month later?"the allied defeat at Austerlitz and the resulting demolition of the arrangements of Potsdam" (p222)

Moved to mainspace by Eddie891 (talk) and Dumelow (talk). Nominated by Dumelow (talk) at 08:14, 2 September 2019 (UTC).

  • Date and length of the article are OK; QPQ completed; all three hooks are under 200 characters long. Citation number 17 to Roberts needs to be supplied with page number(s). I find ALT1 hook to be the most appealing. However, the quote you provide does not fully support the hook. Specifically, the quoted sentence "Treaty of Potsdam signed 3 November, Schönbrunn 15 December 1805" says nothing about one treaty superseding the other. Is there more specific language in the source to that effect? If yes, coould you provide a more extended quote? (the source is offline and I cannot see it). Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 23:10, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi Eddie891, did you have a page ref for Roberts? Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 14:48, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Dumelow, unfortunately my access to Roberts consists of a google books preview, which does not show page numbers. I have included page numbers where possibleEddie891 Talk Work 22:11, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Hmm, in that case I suggest that one of you either get a library copy or order the book from Amazon. The book is available there [1] for $15.48, with AmazonPrime free two-day shipping; as far as I know Amazon usually has rather flexible return policies. The book is cited five times in the article, so page numbers do need to be included. The book is also used to support the hook, and the "superseding" issue from my comment above still needs to be clarified. Nsk92 (talk) 22:24, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
I've got the page numbers from google. The relevant quote from Roberts is "on December 15 Count Von Haugwitz was presented with the Franco-Prussian Treaty of Schonbrunn ... Prussia therefore ended her commitments to Britain under he Treaty of Potsdam which she had made only the month before". Regards - Dumelow (talk) 22:20, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
OK, great, thanks! This extended quote does verify ALT1 hook. I'll take another look at the article, and if nothing else comes up, I'll aprove the nomination. Nsk92 (talk) 22:24, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Mostly everything looks in order, but there are still some copyediting issues that need to be taken care of:
  1. The opening sentence of the lede is too long and hard to unparse. I suggest splitting the sentence in two, with the second one starting as: "In the treaty Prussia agreed to ..."
  2. Not completely sure about this, but I think that the second sentence of Background should start with "The Second Coalition was formed in ..."
  3. The opening sentence of the second paragraph of Background ("Angered after Napoleon took over ...") is ungrammatic and malformed. Not sure what you were trying to say there but the sentence needs fixing.
  4. The second sentence in the same paragraph also seems to be malformed. The sentence opens with "in violation of the treaty", where "in" is not capitalized; it is also unclear, from the sentence itself and from the preceding text, what the phrase "in violation of the treaty" actually means here.
  5. The third paragraph in Background starts with "Through all this, Prussia remained neutral through". While the sentence is grammatically correct, the double occurrence of "through" in the same sentence looks awkward. See if you can rephrase it somehow.
  6. The last sentence of the opening paragraph of Treaty and aftermath reads "It was ratified on 15 November." The usage of "It" here is somewhat problematic since it presumably refers to the treaty, but the word treaty does not even occur in the preceding sentence.
  7. In the very last sentence of the article, there is a space missing after "rarely has a treaty".
Please take care of these issues and check if there any other copyediting issues that need fixing. Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 22:51, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi Nsk92, thanks for these suggestions. I've been through and changed a few things that should resolve the issues above - Dumelow (talk) 08:10, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
@Dumelow: OK, very good, thanks. I looked over the revised version, fixed up a couple of small things (in particular, I changed the GoogleBooks link for Roberts to a link going to the book preview there), and everything looks in order now. I am approving the ALT1 hook. Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 08:46, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Approving ALT1 hook. Nsk92 (talk) 08:46, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

  • @Nsk92: are there any problems with the ALT2 hook? That seems more hooky to me. Yoninah (talk) 18:54, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I thought that ALT1 was pithier, but ALT2 also checks out. The length of ALT2 is OK (170 characters), and a hook supporting sentence in the article has a citation to a source verifying ALT2. So ALT2 is Ok as well. Nsk92 (talk) 20:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @Nsk92: thank you. While we always like short hooks, sometimes we have too many of them and longer hooks are needed to fill out a set. Yoninah (talk) 21:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
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