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Template:Did you know nominations/Women in Iceland

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

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Women in Iceland

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Created/expanded by Yellow.Umbrella (talk), Ipigott (talk), Frayae (talk), and HLHJ (talk). Nominated by Frayae (talk) at 22:58, 7 August 2018 (UTC).

  • Hello, Frayae. Thanks for the nomination; the article is very interesting. It needs some attention for MOS:WTW; while I don't think it's non-neutral for Wikipedia's voice to imply that gender equality is good, as this reflects the balance of sources, we probably shouldn't say that a politician's lectures are amusing, even if a source does. The article uses very extensive quotes, and some fairly close paraphrases, and the English is clear but sometimes slightly non-colloquial. I've been copy-editing it and will do some more. There are a few confusing points.
Some information that is not there and would really improve it (see other "Women in... articles and redirects). It would be entirely acceptable to quote Icelandic-language sources, ideally with the quote added to the citation to make it easier to check.
While it misleadingly fails the automated DYK check, it was moved out of draftspace on the seventh, and so qualifies.
I think the fascinating part of this article is the equal-pay action, which also deserves its own article. I'd suggest a hook that brings it in, such as
  • ALT1:... that women in Iceland walk off the job en masse after a calculated proportion of the workday?
  • ALT2:... that the first woman voted in as head of state says she wouldn't have got her job if women in Iceland hadn't walked away from theirs?
....just as initial ideas. HLHJ (talk) 23:29, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Hello, Frayae. It looks as if we do have an article on the 1975 Icelandic women's strike. I've linked to it, and we might want to merge some of the content. The ALT2 hook would still work, but ALT1 seems more suited to the main article. It would be good to expand some other content, too. We might, for instance, include content on the history of women's sufferage, women's property, marriage law, parental leave (is there a father's quota?), proportion of housework done by men and women, alignment of school and working hours, childcare provisions, what professions have severe gender imbalances and how these have changed over time, affirmative action programs... Pre-20th-century history would also be good. HLHJ (talk) 04:36, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Hi HLHJ. These are all definitely things that should be done, I like both hook ideas you came up with as well. Although the article needs significant expansion, the DYK process is very time limited so I went straight for it. I hope you don't mind too much. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 20:16, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Frayae, great infobox! The clock is on the nomination, and it's safely nominated; I don't mind at all, and I don't mind re-reading it. HLHJ (talk) 23:37, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Any updates? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:53, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

I added a little, then got stuck trying to understand the role of women in Iceland during the Viking Age. This might take some time to expand. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 13:31, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
@HLHJ: I have added some early Icelandic history, role of women in the Viking Age, expanded the paragraph on Katrín, and added details of women's suffrage. What do you think? — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:46, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
Quick look; looks much improved, well done. I will look more throughly as soon as I can. There seems to be some debate around Norse gender roles, see Shield-maiden and Birka female Viking warrior (the Hervararkviða contains a scene in which Hervör demands her father's sword from his ghost, he tells her that it is cursed and will destroy her family and her children, and she says she doesn't care about her children, she wants to go a-viking;[1] traditional this woman's role certainly is, but conventional?). Women's strike content should probably be merged as above. HLHJ (talk) 16:13, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
The problem with shieldmaidens is finding any Icelandic ones. There are comparatively few archeological digs and sagas which the idea is based on and these focus on Denmark and Sweden. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 18:49, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes. I was wondering if the academic interest in the topic had provoked any Iceland-related research. I've had a look, and you're right, I've found nothing specific. I've listed some sources I did find on the article talk page. Actually, I forgot to ask, what is the Icelandic connection of Gunnhild, Mother of Kings?
I'm a concerned about the reliability of the history.com sources. They seem to be largely based on a press release about an academic paper which doesn't really support the statements they make, so I tagged them. Population genetics is rather biomedical and might need MEDRS; I can't find such a a source, but found some non-review sources (listed on talk page for reference). I did find some more sources on Iceland in this millennium, including some useful stats, and listed them on the talk page. I've also added some see-also links you may prefer to remove. I hope you won't feel any obligation to use (or read) all these bits, they are largely working notes and some of them are quite unusable as well.
The section on the Women's Strikes is almost as long as the main article. Would you object to merging the content to the main article, and just having a summary and a main-article link on this page? You have dramatically extended the article, so I don't think length will be a problem. :) Some photos of any of the strikes would be great to have, if you know anyone who might have some they'd be willing to donate.
Apart from a few minor issues, this is ready. If you still want to improve it, that's fine, and I'll have another go over it soon, probably tomorrow. HLHJ (talk) 04:30, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Dubious section removed, including the content needing MEDRS. And the 1975 women's strike content reduced to fit better in the article. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 10:32, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, Frayæ! That all looks good. The addition of a secondary source for Aud is also good. I'm still uneasy about the reliability of the sources in the Viking Age section. For those less familiar with the history, it might be good to have dates on the named time periods (e.g. "793–1066 AD"). The order of the sections seems a bit odd, following the order of other "Women in..." article would be preferably, unless it flows much better in a modified order. HLHJ (talk) 04:55, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
I made a few more improvements. I am not sure what the layout should be like as the article is still much shorter than for example Women in India. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, there are more women in India than in Iceland :) ... The Viking-era sourcing is much improved, I'll try to add some more sourcing (I've added some to the talk page). We should probably fill in the 1066-1915 gap in the history. I've added a section on education and employment, and a stub on religion (no mention of pre-Christian era yet). HLHJ (talk) 04:54, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
It is looking much better now, the Christianization of Iceland article might help give points to the early religion period. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 08:53, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
A possible rewording of the first hook. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 14:51, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I see that HLHJ has made substantial contributions to this article as well, so I'll take over this. Just a few minor issues affecting an otherwise comprehensive and well-sourced article.

  • No need for citations to non-controversial statements in the lead section, per MOS:LEADCITE. However, ensure that all information in the lead section is in the body as well.
  • "In the 2000s" - best to specify the year.
  • "It is listed as number one in the 2016 best places to work as a women index." - specify that this index is by the Economist; "and has been listed number one on the gender pay gap index since 2009" - specify that this index is by the World Economic Forum
  • One "citation needed" tag that needs to be addressed.

– feminist (talk) 04:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, feminist. I have been busy elsewhere recently, but would like to also add information on violence against women (Iceland's is notably low). I will try and get to this soon. HLHJ (talk) 05:14, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I have rewritten the section on parental leave to deal with the longstanding contradiction. This was caused by the fact there were two laws, one of which was enacted in three stages. I added a journal article which explains this. "In the 2000s" refers to the entire decade, I added a cite note which gives the exact OECD data for each year for reference. I found sources for the citation needed and not in citation tags and added them. I specified the indexes mentioned, and made some other minor corrections. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:07, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: ALT1 hook accurate and cited to a source. ALT2 can be verified by a source in the article [2] but is not explicitly mentioned, so this fact needs to be added to the article if that hook is to be used. I did not consider the original hook and ALT3 because they are boring. I would prefer not having citations in the lead but MOS:LEADCITE doesn't forbid it, so it's fine. Consider nominating this article for GA status. feminist (talk) 16:37, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

@Frayae and HLHJ: I would strongly recommend adding the ALT2 hook fact (the fact that she wouldn't have become president) to the article as I find the hook most interesting. feminist (talk) 04:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
I added the ALT2 hook fact to the article. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:19, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
OK. ALT2 verified as well. feminist (talk) 11:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
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