Template talk:Amtrak California Zephyr

"Improved diagram"

What I've done is show:

• Whether or not the station has disabled access;
• Indicate almost all water crossings;
• Indicate whether the line/station is elevated, at-grade, or in a tunnel;
• Indicate whether a border is crossed over water on a bridge, through a tunnel, or at-grade (no water), and;
• Show connecting services stations at stations, no matter how minor they may be.

If you think that I have gone a little overboard on the bridges, I sympathize with you! Much time has gone into this makeover for the diagram. I'm not sure if I will continue to improve it further, but for now, I am publishing it here.
Ben (talk) 14:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Former stations

Currently this template lists the Sparks Amtrak depot as a former stop. What is the reason for this? If we start including all of the dropped stations for the CZ this list would get, IMO, distracting. Just from the Amtrak era, dropped stations that I know in addition to Sparks also include Lovelock, NV, Carlin, NV, Price, UT, Thompson, UT, Rifle, CO and Bond, CO. I'm sure there's some in CA and east of Denver as well. Then if we were to list stations dropped from the pre-Amtrak era this would get even worse, possibly dropped stations outnumbering active stations. What is the criteria for inclusion for dropped stations? Dave (talk) 18:07, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Presumably that they were once not dropped stations. It's an encyclopedia, a place where one goes to find out a good measure of what there is to be known about a subject. Dropping stations from an encyclopaeic article on a line merely because the stations are not served today is not IMO good thinking. It is surely possible to continue to list both classes of station, marking those not currently served as such? --21:31, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

As a rough rule of thumb, for services that have existed in the same general form since the beginning of the public subsidy era (1971 for Amtrak, anywhere from the 60s to the early 80s for commuter rail in the US), the main RDT should include all stops dropped during that era. There are a handful of cases where there have been a very high number of stops, but half a dozen or so in a template this size is perfectly fine. It's what collapsible templates are for anyway.

In this specific case, since the train didn't exist in its present form until 1983, all stops dropped since 1983 are definitely worth including. There is already also Template:California Zephyr (1970) for the previous (pre-1970) iteration [which is already properly included in the article] and Template:Amtrak San Francisco Zephyr for the 1972-1983 iteration of the train [which has its own article]. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:25, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Pi, that makes sense, and would keep the list fairly manageable. Judging from a 1984 Amtrak timetable, I got most of them, looks like one or two more in CA, and maybe 4 more in the midwest. Fair enough, so if we include them all, we include them all. ThanksDave (talk) 13:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Putting these as a place holder to get them all:

• 1983: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19830424&item=0046 (shows Ogden Ut, as a stop )
• 1984: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19841028&item=0047
• 1989: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19891029&item=0057
• 1991: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19910407&item=0063
• Note: 1991 still shows Oakland as the western terminus, when was changed to Emeryville?
• 1996:http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/lovelock.htm (only one that shows Lovelock as a stop so far)
• 1997:http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19970511n&item=0040
• (Note 1997 still shows Fairfield CA as a stop, when was this dropped?)
• 2004:http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20000521n&item=0047 (appears to be the same as current route)

So that should get us the complete list, but still some questions about when some stations were dropped.Dave (talk) 20:38, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: this begs another question, some of the stops are still train stations, but no longer served by the Zephyr, so "closed" is not the right word, what is the right word? Dave (talk) 21:19, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Great work with this. Some notes (which are half for my own reference to eventually add to the article):

From Amtrak in the Heartland (Sanders, 2006): Monmouth was bypassed and Carlin, Bond, and Rifle closed on October 30, 1983. (Green River was closed at that time, but reopened on May 11, 1997 when Thompson closed). Aurora closed (replaced by Naperville) on April 28, 1985. Akron closed on April 5, 1987. Lovelock closed May 11, 1997. Oakland was closed on August 21, 1994. From May 22, 1995 to October 27, 1997, the train was extended to Oakland - Jack London Square.

From California's Capitol Corridor: Suisun-Fairfield was bypassed on October 25, 1998.

The one mystery is Ogden. It appears likely that it was discontinued either on July 16 when the reroute to the DRG&W actually occurred, or effective in October; either way, it was definitely 1983.

I'll add all these dates to the template, and try to check mileage too - Suisin and Oakland don't seem right. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates and additional research. One correction though, Ogden is in Utah, not Nevada ;). Don't worry I'll fix that. Dave (talk) 19:18, 14 March 2017 (UTC)