Template talk:Convert/Archive October 2016

Refresh my memory

For Ethanol fuel#Sources how do I get the capital in the following {{convert|2,000,000|ST|LT t|0|spell=in}}, two million short tons (1,785,714 long tons; 1,814,369 t)? Peter Horn User talk 15:57, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Isn't it just "spell=In"? That's what the doc says. Kendall-K1 (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. {{convert|2,000,000|ST|LT t|0|spell=In}}, Two million short tons (1,785,714 long tons; 1,814,369 t) Peter Horn User talk 20:52, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

To accommodate different styles

ĹĺĺWould it be possible to do this {{convert|6|'|11|"}} 6 ' or {{convert|6|'|11|"|m}} 6 '? Similarly {{convert|60|MPH|km/h}} {{convert|60|MPH|km/h}} instead of {{convert|60|mph|km/h}} 60 miles per hour (97 km/h). Peter Horn User talk 18:40, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Considering that {{convert|6|ft|11|in}} -> 6 feet 11 inches (2.11 m) already works, can you give some examples of where your request would be useful, and perhaps indicate the articles where it would be used? --RexxS (talk) 20:17, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Shall do, but not today. However, samples can be found in my recent contributions where I changed 33' to a more conventional Convert 33' → {{convert|33|ft|2|abbr=on}} 33 ft (10 m) Peter Horn User talk 20:37, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Searching WP:MOSNUM for "prime" shows that an apostrophe should not be used to mean foot in articles. Convert could support using apostrophe as a unit but I don't think that would be helpful because it would encourage the idea that they are an acceptable way of entering a unit, and as RexxS shows, the alternative is easy. Likewise I don't know that supporting every possible alias such as MPH is worthwhile. Consistency is good, even in wikitext, and mph is fine. Having too many alternatives can invite confusion (are they all the same? which one "should" be used?). Johnuniq (talk) 00:37, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Agreed on both points. Abbreviations "ft" and "in" are just fine, and are unambiguous. Honestly, alternatives should be minimised as much as possible, as forcing people to use proper abbreviations encourages overall better editing. — Huntster (t @ c) 04:56, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

So we'll stick with "ft" and "in". This is what I have done in Kalka–Shimla Railway#Rolling stock where I changed "33' long by 7' wide" to 33 ft (10.06 m) long by 7 ft (2.13 m) wide. I had done the same thing already in the past in other articles and I'll continue to do so as I find them. That still leaves "MPH" which is not supported and which I simply changed to "mph" when using template:convert. Btw, I have come across another cute on, "km/hr" which is not supported and has to be changed to "km/h" when applying the template. But I did discover that "kph" is supported. Peter Horn User talk 14:28, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you should avoid using single and double quotes because I'm sure that will mess up the syntax analyzers on Wikipedia. You should also avoid using non-standard metric abbreviations because the system has used up most of the Roman alphabet and some of the Greek alphabet as well, and they could mean something different than intended. For instance, with "km/hr" and "kph", the problem is that "r" is the symbol for "revolution" and "p" is the symbol for "pico" (10^-12). Thus you have "kilometres per hour-revolution" and kilo-pico hours".RockyMtnGuy (talk) 02:44, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@RockyMtnGuy: Just to give an example to show that ""kph"" is supported: {{convert|16|kph|mph|abbr=on}} 16 km/h (9.9 mph) but "MPH" is not: {{convert|10|MPH}} 10 MPH. Peter Horn User talk 22:38, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Btw, MPH is perhaps more common usage than mph. Peter Horn User talk 13:57, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

WP:UNITS explicitly says 'kph' is unacceptable. It gives acceptable examples of speed as 'km/h' and 'mph'. There is no mention of 'MPH' but having most of the imperial examples as lowercase indicates that lowercase is preferred. The majority of acronyms at WP:UNITS are similarly lowercase - eg a.m., mpg, rpm, psi. If it was my choice then I would deprecate both 'kph' and 'MPH' - after a bot changes any instances to the approved names of course.  Stepho  talk  14:11, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, kph is definitely a nonstandard abbreviation, which should be km/h in standard metric units, so kph should be depreciated. Imperial units are more disorganized in their abbreviations than metric, but all uppercase abbreviations are an artifact of the old days when computer printers and terminals only had uppercase letters. Now, in the 21st century, "M" has started to mean "Mega" even in imperial units. "MPH" also stands for the "Master of Public Health" degree. Basically, we should try to be consistent and not allow things which style guides would prohibit.RockyMtnGuy (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

I have been following this conversation from my watchlist, and I had a thought. Would it be possible to program the module to offer suggestions when editors enter incorrect units? For instance, perhaps the error text could be modified to instruct the editor to enter mph instead of MPH, ft instead of '? That would help editors resolve module errors on their own. — Eru·tuon 20:03, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Just to clear up, "kph" is a cute pseudo metric American abbreviation and is meant to mean kilometers per hour. Nevertheless in template:convert the "kph" is transformed to "km/h", just as I have shown above. The form "MPH" instead of "mph", is what appears on automotive speedometers. Peter Horn User talk 20:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Automobile speedometer, indicating speed in miles per hour (MPH) on the outer scale and kilometres per hour on the inner scale. In Canada it is the outer scale that is indicated in km/h and the inner in MPH, if the latter appears at all.

MPH, MPH or mph is a common abbreviation of miles per hour, a measurement of speed. Miles per hour. Miles per hour (abbreviated mph, MPH or mi/h) is an imperial and United States customary unit of speed.... I have not been able to retrieve the article(s) where I had to substitute "mph" so as to be able to make a conversion. for "MPH". Peter Horn User talk 16:52, 19 October 2016 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 17:26, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a manual of style that documents the consensus about many issues, one of which is the spelling/capitalisation of units. The relevant section is Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers #Specific units. In both the US customary and Imperial units, the relevant unit of length is the 'mile', not the 'Mile'. The related unit of speed is the 'mile per hour', whose symbol is 'mph', not 'MPH'. The lower-case units and symbols are the units we use in Wikipedia, and outside of direct quotations, there is no reason whatsoever to use any other spelling/capitalisation. The manual of style has this to say about capitalisation: "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization" - Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters. --RexxS (talk) 21:17, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Definitely helpful. So whenever I come across "MPH" again, I'll change it to "mph" before applying template:convert. Peter Horn User talk 01:52, 20 October 2016 (UTC)