Template talk:Country data Burma

See also: Template talk:Country data Myanmar

1937 flag

Please change Burma1937.png to British_Burma_1937_flag.png. It will be deleted soon. Lycaon (talk) 15:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Done. --- RockMFR 22:27, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Volleyball alias

Please Change "link alias-volleyball = Burma" to "Myanmar". --Mohsen1248 (talk) 14:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 16 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There may be a consensus that the templates should effectively be flipped so that Burma becomes a wrapper of Myanmar (rather than vice versa, the current situation), but I think it's clear that whatever plays out a move isn't the answer – it can be taken care of through normal editing, though carefully due to the concerns that SiBr₄ expressed. Jenks24 (talk) 11:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

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Template:Country data Burma → Template:Country data Myanmar – Burma article has been renamed to Myanmar, This template should be updated to match. — Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 19:07, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment - there is already a separate template at Template:Country data Myanmar, so it needs to be decided whether they should be merged, or two separate templates are still required. As I understand it, the only reason the separate templates were previously retained was to handle specific cases where Myanmar was already accepted as the appropriate name (ie for sports teams). Now that Burma has been renamed Myanmar it should presumably be referred to as Myanmar in all cases, so there's probably no longer a need for two separate templates. @SiBr4: is there any reason you can think of why the two templates shouldn't be merged and this left as a redirect? TDL (talk) 03:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

  • They're not really separate templates, though they used to be. Currently, the Myanmar template is a "partial redirect" to the Burma template: Myanmar transcludes Burma, meaning it uses Burma's aliases and flag variants, with only the shortname alias being different (discussed in advance here).

    Though I support the change from Burma to Myanmar (and having a normal redirect from the former to the latter), one possible issue is that probably not all "Burma" articles have been moved to titles using "Myanmar" yet, and there are articles on historical subjects for which "Burma" is the correct name (e.g. Burma at the 1960 Summer Olympics), so the change could break some links to pages that don't have redirects from the "Myanmar" alternatives. SiBr₄ (talk) 12:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

    Well technically speaking it's a Wikipedia:Wrapper template. I was just trying to distinguish between a redirect.

    Are there any templates which make use of country date template info for historical links which we'd need to be careful about? As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), the annual olympic articles don't. Template:FlagIOCteam, for example, has a parallel system based on IOC codes to select the proper display and link name (ie BIR/BIR or MYA/MYA). TDL (talk) 01:49, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

    I didn't give the 1960 Olympics page as an example of a page that would be affected by the change, just as an example of a title that should not be moved to the corresponding "Myanmar" version and does not have a redirect from it. The Olympics have their own template system, but most team sports outside the Olympics do use country data templates. As an example of a page that would be affected, 1968 AFC Asian Cup uses {{fb|Burma|1948}} (Burma), which, although the link would remain correct, would display Myanmar if Burma was fully redirected to Myanmar (since {{flaglink/core}} uses the shortname alias as default display name). Usages of {{flaglink}}, which uses custom links that cannot be changed with link alias-... parameters in data templates, include many sports events, including some Olympics articles (in which flaglink should probably be changed to flagIOCteam); no pages use it with Country data Burma without using it indirectly through Country data Myanmar, however.

    A possibility could be to dynamically change the shortname alias (or alternatively the name aliases) based on the variant year:

    | shortname alias = {{#iferror:{{#ifexpr:{{{variant}}}<1989|Burma|Myanmar}}|Myanmar}}

    A problem with that is that Myanmar did not change its flag together with its name in 1989, so the 1974 variant would have to be split into 1974 and 1989 variants to distinguish between the use of the previous flag to represent Burma and Myanmar. We could also keep Burma as a wrapper for Myanmar, like Myanmar is now, and advise to use Burma only in articles about pre-1989 subjects. SiBr₄ (talk) 12:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

This must be a more general problem than just with Myanmar. Lots of places have been renamed right? I tried to think of a comparable example (two names from different periods in time, but only one wiki-article) to see how this problem has been dealt with in the past, and came up with Template:Country data FR Yugoslavia and Template:Country data Serbia and Montenegro (not to be confused with Template:Country data Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia) which are separate templates which use redirects to get to the same country/flag article. The more I think about it, the more I think the best solution is to keep this as a wrapper, with some logic to specify the appropriate name, so it can be used in historically relevant contexts. To me that's a cleaner, and more generally applicable, solution then hacks trying to guess the link from the variant. TDL (talk) 23:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I've updated the sandboxes (MM/BU) and tested them here. For Burma, keeping the shortname alias at "Burma" has the consequence of {{flaglink}}-based templates linking to "Burma ..." instead of the current "Myanmar ...", because {{flaglink/core}} uses the shortname alias instead of the alias for the link. Just using "Myanmar" as shortname alias and changing the name parameter does work. I'll test some more to make sure it always does. SiBr₄ (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

It didn't (the military templates displayed just "Burma" instead of "Myanmar Army" etc.). Reintroducing an altlink switch for both shortname alias and name does work in all tested templates. Keeping the army, navy and air force link aliases is necessary for the military templates to not switch to links using "Burma".

A comparison of the expanded templates (current vs. sandbox) shows that for non-{{{altlink}}} templates, only the |alias= effectively changes (from Burma to Myanmar). If {{{altlink}}} is used, the only change is in the |name= field, which is emptied for "Myanmar".

I think the sandboxes are ready to be moved live now. SiBr₄ (talk) 20:27, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done SiBr₄ (talk) 12:48, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @SiBr4: looks good! I've cleaned up by redirecting Template:Country data MM (unused in article space) to Template:Country data Myanmar, and updated Template:Country data Burma/doc. TDL (talk) 23:12, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

@SiBr4: on further inspection of [1], while working on Template_talk:Country_data_FR_Yugoslavia#Wrapper_function, I noticed that {{army}}, {{air force}} and {{navy}} don't have the behaviour I'd expect. All display Myanmar rather than depend on usage since no altlink is passed, which isn't what we ideally want in contexts like Template:River class frigate. We could get the display name correct by doing something like this. This would require some redirects, but IMHO it's more important to get the display name right than the linking name. Thoughts? TDL (talk) 01:54, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The displayed name for the military templates has been "Myanmar" since this edit of mine to Burma in May 2014. Only two articles use {{Navy|Burma}} (Dark-class fast patrol boat and PCE-842-class patrol craft); no pages use Air force or Army with "Burma".

Though changing the link aliases based on the shortname alias would work, I think a better solution would be to allow the link and display text to differ in the military templates, possibly using "name alias-..." parameters. SiBr₄ (talk) 20:36, 9 September 2015 (UTC)