Template talk:Dublin residential areas

Purpose, discussion, validity of division..?

I can see some point to this, and for Dublin, I like the name "residential areas" better than "Towns and Villages" (I argued before for "Towns, Villages and Suburbs"), but as there is also a category, and other structures, I would like to ask what prior discussion there was on this idea, and the value it adds? Also, it divides into Northside and Southside - these are already complex concepts here, as the ideas differ from the pure geographic, and anyway today much of new Dublin development is in the west of the urban zone, and would traditionally not have figured in any Northside / Southside divide (Lucan, for example). I'm not opposed, but I do think this idea and its implementation need to be debated. SeoR (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Candidates for West Dublin: Adamstown, Blanchardstown (not traditionally Northside, but sort-of leader of the North part of West Dublin), Clonee, Corduff - and a whole bunch beginning with Tallaght and Jobstown could form a South part of West Dublin

Not Southside, and not really West Dublin either: Lucan, Newcastle (far rural Co. Dublin), Rathcoole (see previous), Saggart (see previous)

Part of bigger established areas: Clongriffin (unfinished new housing in north Donaghmede), Sherriff Street (part of North Wall / Docklands), Summerhill (North Inner City), Windy Arbour

Not a residential area: Belfield (a university campus), Citywest (an industrial estate in Saggart, or in once-empty county fields), Park West (???, never heard of it)

With all the complexity, and the development now reaching to and beyond Dublin's borders, why bother with NS / SS at all?

I got the idea of creating this template from the templates of the boroughs of New York. I thought it would be a good idea to have such a template for Dublin since most areas already had a page on WP. I took the list from the Northside and Southside pages. If anybody feels an area should be added or taken off from the template you might want to add/remove it from those pages as well, so we have a minimum of consistency. As for the NS/SS question, I agree that Dublin has changed so much in the last 10 years or so, that maybe we shouldn't bother with NS and SS anymore. But since the list was taken from 2 pages I thought I'd divide the template into 2 sections. Initially I was thinking of creating a section for each postal code but then I quickly realised it would be a nightmare as some areas spread over 2 or 3 PC and some spread over Co. Dublin. Saebhiar Adishatz 02:05, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the template is good. Using the Liffey as the North/South divide is the most widely accepted use, and it is very widely used. There is no "Westside" in Dublin and "West Dublin" doesn't join Tyrellstown and Rathcoole in any common usage. I'd support the template in its current form and also think the term "residential areas" is a good one for an overwhealmingly urban area. If applied outside the boundaries of County Dublin it could be used to include every little clutter of one-off houses; we are better to cover that under the "townland" format. Sarah777 (talk) 06:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I like the concrete points of the second writer above but would favour simply listing areas in one "run" as the Northside / Southside is completely messed-up nowadays, and the more-so on Wikipedia, which has made what were qualitative (and yes, often somewhat perjorative) terms purely geographic - historically no one would have described Tallaght or Jobstown as Southside, nor Malahide as Northside. And likewise Lucan is neither Northside nor Southside, nor the likes of Saggart or Portrane. I think to general readers this distinction is just time-wasting (they have to search visally through two dense lists instead of one) and not based on facts. So yes to template but no to the split. 83.70.120.135 (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

As a native of the Southside I can attest that we most certainly would refer to Malahide as being on the "Northside". North of the Liffey is Northside when viewed from Blackrock, period. And Tallaght is Southside. Sarah777 (talk) 22:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

ANd as a native of Lucan, I can attest that we never thought ourselves North- or South-side. But come on, we all know very well that Malahide was never "Northside" in the Dublin meaning (though upper-middle-class Clontarf was, and middle class Glasnevin, Raheny and so on), nor was Tallaght embraced by "Southside." There is a simple solution, short of just having one list, which avoids imposing a mis-use of Dublin terminology on an uncaring world. BEing BOLD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.123.209.196 (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope. From where I was reared Clontarf, Malahide, Glasnevin etcetera were "Northside". It was/is purely a geographical term. Though we looked down equally on the denizens of Coolock and Clontarf. This was about location, location, location. Malahiders were merely wannabe Southsiders. But there is only one solution: move. Sarah777 (talk) 00:40, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Mind you, we'd have a name for folk from Lucan - "Culchie". Sarah777 (talk) 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Not all areas included

There are some areas with pages that are not included in the template, Smithfield for example. I would add them but i don't know how.

Kilmore

Please add kilmore to the campaign box Thanks--Babestress (talk) 14:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Additions

I have added in a few more obscure ones such as Man O'War. I have also added Chapelizod in to the Northside. It being probably the only area which spans both sides of the river.

I will look at setting up Wikipedia pages for Stawberry beds and Summerhill which I feel are sufficiently worthy of their own.Financefactz (talk) 14:51, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

What precisely was wrong with the following additions

• Man of War, Fingal
• Portrane
• Garristown
• Balscaddan
• Balbriggan
• Ballyboughal

Hey! The main thing is that such changes are first flagged for discussion, then modified with that Wikipedia core principle, *consensus*. This template was stable for 4.5 years, and then just Citywest, which is now a partly residential element of the suburban sprawl, was added. The original list was debated and built by people who know Dublin, and they included areas within Dublin (a city), not every corner of old County Dublin. They all seem the kind of people who know about the villages, and Balbriggan town, and chose to leave them aside. And they were right, I believe. I grew up in Garristown, lovely at times, bleak at others, but altogether rural. We would laugh if, even now, you called it suburban, or an “area of Dublin”. The same applies to Ballyboughal, Portrane, St Margaret’s and so on.

I think adding Summerhill, for example, makes perfect sense, but it needs its own article. It is not the same as the former Monto.

Component estates within larger areas were probably left out for clarity, and a discussion on this here talk page could be useful as to whether to add these. Personally, I would have them reached through their main areas, like Swords, Coolock, Tallaght.

I see you’ve reached your first 1000 edits. Well done. I, by contrast, did some editing years back, but now I just pop up occasionally. Good luck with the next 1000! 2A00:1FA0:48D4:310A:B812:40C2:8DCE:DE23 (talk) 20:45, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

What are we defining as Dublin City. I thought it was just residential areas of County Dublin as the title defines it as North and South of the river. The title is just Dublin residential areas. I see you've left in a lot of the additions such as the Naul and Lusk. I would really struggle to see how Balbriggan isn't a residential area of Dublin under any criteria due to its size and history and connections via city bus and train services.

I think Wikipedia is really just about having verifiable facts and it helps if there is a consensus. What are the criteria for something being regarded as residential. I would regard it as being residential if someone has ever lived there. Thus Ireland's Eye makes the cut in that criteria or possibly if it was more strict we could say if someone is currently living their then it wouldn't make the cut but Lambay Island would as it still has the Barings Family residing there]].

I would be inclined to have the list as exhaustive as reasonably possible. For example you could say that Bayside is possibly a part of either Sutton or Kilbarrack but because it is quite large it could be viewed as its own area and should be included. Generally if a place is sufficiently large then it will have just the name of the area before Dublin in the street address. Usually for people living in the Brackenstown area of Swords I have seen Brackenstown, Swords, Co. Dublin but have also seen letters addressed to just Brackenstown, Co. Dublin so would be inclined to leave it in.

I'm not really too bothered what the criteria is as long as it isn't a secret or just "whatever the person editing it feel is the criteria at a given time". That way if it doesn't fit in this list then it can fit in another one. Also what is the criteria for old county Dublin versus what we are calling new county Dublin.Financefactz (talk) 10:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Blackpitts, The Tenters

Hi all, are the above worthy of wikipedia pages of their own do you think? They could be additions to this template. Ridiculopathy (talk) 17:01, 5 June 2022 (UTC).

I'm not sure, but I've never heard of "The Tenters" - so that's a bad sign. This is probably a question for SeoR, however, estates or individual housing developments usually don't qualify. Some very large collections of new buildings do qualify; places like Citywest, Tyrellstown, Adamstown, and Clongriffen have all become recognised residential areas in the past 20 years (often despite much protest from developerphopic editors)! Sarah777 (talk) 11:47, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ridiculopathy, Sarah777, so first, these are great classic placenames in Dublin, being two divisions of the deep south inner city. They were never formal designations, and are integral parts of The Liberties, as well as of the basin of the River Poddle, a major part of whose lower reaches they encompass. Blackpitts takes in the area where the Poddle (I heavily revised that article last year, so I'm fresh on this) takes in the Coombe Water and reaches St Patrick's Cathedral, while The Tenters is named for cloth-drying that used to happen in a messy area of Poddle branches towards St James'. Much as I love their colour and character, and recognise their rich history, I would hesitate to add them as distinct areas for now, but would rather grow their coverage within the article on the Liberties. They might eventually split off, if we gathered enough material (it exists). A very different question from new outlying areas, which had no broader history into which to sit - Tyrellstown and the like were just fields, Adamstown a special case as a working "new settlement", and then we have Clongriffin, an invented name for northern Donaghmede, but developing, eventually, some distinct identity, or Citywest (or Parkwest), commercial developments developing residential aspects in areas which lacked settlement. Such "new areas" have to have new articles or be omitted altogether, which would not be right, albeit their actual status can be complicated (even more so are standalone estates like Applewood, in a disconnected spot far from any major settlement). SeoR (talk) 16:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for such a thorough answer. Good suggestion. Ridiculopathy (talk) 19:10, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

There's an event on in Kevin Street Library as part of Festival of History on 4 October 2022 from 6:30 pm - 7:30 pm talking about The Tenters if anybody's interested. I can't make it myself. "In the early twentieth century, Dublin’s chronic housing conditions were described as the worst within the British Empire. The collapse of the Church Street tenement in 1913 with fatal consequences increased pressure on authorities to address Dublin’s housing crisis. Although events like World War I and the Easter Rising all delayed providing housing for Dublin’s citizens, Dublin Corporation’s Housing Committee undertook significant home building in the area known today as Dublin 8. This talk by Cathy Scuffil discusses four estates built against a backdrop of war, revolution and the emerging Free State. It celebrates the largest, the housing estate built in Fairbrother’s Fields, better known as The Tenters, on its centenary." Would 'The Tenters' warrant a wiki page? If it was just a housing estate probably not.

Here's the link in any case:

https://dublinfestivalofhistory.ie/event/the-tenters-a-response-to-dublins-housing-crisis/Ridiculopathy (talk) 15:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)