Template talk:Historical regions of Caucasian Albania
Latest comment: 13 years ago by John of Reading in topic A navbox full of redlinks
I wanted to nominate this template for deletion but I decided to see what the community thinks before. My problem with this template is simple, Caucasian Albania is a historical region, so why do we need a template that lists historical regions of a historical region?-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 22:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
- Caucasian Albania was an ancient state, and not a region. Baku87 (talk) 17:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Caucasian Albania was an ancient state in the South Caucasus. This fact is a general knowledge. Grandmaster 18:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not saying it wasn't a state, but after the state was no more it was a region. I also haven't seen a single template such as this one for a former state short of huge empires like the Sassanid Empire. The other problem is that this template lists only regions that were part of the Sassanid vassal region of Albania after 387 AD but it doesn't list any of the actual regions of Caucasian Albania proper. Can someome please explain this to me? One would think there was no Albania prior to the partition of Armenia.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Because the articles on other regions of Albania have not been created yet. When they are created, we will add them to the template. We need articles on the regions of Shaki, Gabala, etc. At present we only have articles about the cities with such names. The articles about other regions will be created in due course. Grandmaster 19:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- That goes without saying. The question is why?-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 19:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't understand your question. Grandmaster 06:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
- That goes without saying. The question is why?-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 19:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Because the articles on other regions of Albania have not been created yet. When they are created, we will add them to the template. We need articles on the regions of Shaki, Gabala, etc. At present we only have articles about the cities with such names. The articles about other regions will be created in due course. Grandmaster 19:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not saying it wasn't a state, but after the state was no more it was a region. I also haven't seen a single template such as this one for a former state short of huge empires like the Sassanid Empire. The other problem is that this template lists only regions that were part of the Sassanid vassal region of Albania after 387 AD but it doesn't list any of the actual regions of Caucasian Albania proper. Can someome please explain this to me? One would think there was no Albania prior to the partition of Armenia.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Caucasian Albania was an ancient state in the South Caucasus. This fact is a general knowledge. Grandmaster 18:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- I would like to see the template deleted or else corrected according to historical facts. The map shows the Arsacid dynasty of Caucasian Albania. The template should list its rulers, cities and also the fact that it was dependent upon the Sassanids as a vassal and/or province. As for Sassanid they were certainly among their "shahrestans" per Shapur I. As for Parthian dynasty of Caucasian Albania, the template should say: "Arsacid dynasty of Caucasian Albania per this: Arasacid Dynasty of CA.--Xashaiar (talk) 20:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
- This is about regions, not rulers. Whether it was a vassal state, or independent, it still had its regions. Grandmaster 21:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
- What does a region mean? inhabited region with certain history? I am sure you do not mean otherwise. It must be made clear the date considered as well as the kingdom or empire they belonged to. I have never seen a template like this about "a region" without mentioning the major powers they were under. The template should follow the exact political timeline of the region.--Xashaiar (talk) 12:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- In that case you should check other similar templates. Template:Historical regions of Armenia is a good example. Do you see any timeline or major powers there? Grandmaster 12:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Not a good example. Armenia is after all this Armenia. And yes, I do see the template has a raw called "traditional provinces" (more or less) attached to Kingdom of Armenia/"Old Armenia". Caucasian Albania does not refer to anything politically well-defined.--Xashaiar (talk) 13:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- How's that? Did it never exist? Grandmaster 13:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Of course it did. By "politically well-defined" I meant "not quite clear politically" as they were indeed dependent upon Sassanid, ...--Xashaiar (talk) 13:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- So were Armenia and Georgia, also ruled by Arsacid dynasties. Grandmaster 14:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Of course it did. By "politically well-defined" I meant "not quite clear politically" as they were indeed dependent upon Sassanid, ...--Xashaiar (talk) 13:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- How's that? Did it never exist? Grandmaster 13:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Not a good example. Armenia is after all this Armenia. And yes, I do see the template has a raw called "traditional provinces" (more or less) attached to Kingdom of Armenia/"Old Armenia". Caucasian Albania does not refer to anything politically well-defined.--Xashaiar (talk) 13:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- In that case you should check other similar templates. Template:Historical regions of Armenia is a good example. Do you see any timeline or major powers there? Grandmaster 12:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- What does a region mean? inhabited region with certain history? I am sure you do not mean otherwise. It must be made clear the date considered as well as the kingdom or empire they belonged to. I have never seen a template like this about "a region" without mentioning the major powers they were under. The template should follow the exact political timeline of the region.--Xashaiar (talk) 12:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- This is about regions, not rulers. Whether it was a vassal state, or independent, it still had its regions. Grandmaster 21:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Map
editI have swapped out the map with File:Aghuank.jpg, which seemed clearer to me. Blueboar (talk) 00:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- But it shows only a small portion of historical Albania. That's why I replaced it with the other map. Grandmaster 04:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- This map shows Albania proper, it doesn't show territories of neighbouring states attached to an Albanian administrative unit of Persia by the Sassanids.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 12:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Albania was a kingdom, with its own kings. Grandmaster 12:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- This map shows Albania proper, it doesn't show territories of neighbouring states attached to an Albanian administrative unit of Persia by the Sassanids.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 12:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
A navbox full of redlinks
editI note that the current version of the template contains only redlinks; the last version that passes WP:NAVBOX seems to be this one from 25 April 2010. I've come here by accident and know almost nothing of the history and geography of the region. Please can those who are interested in this template either ask for it to be deleted, or agree on a version that contains (mostly) blue links. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)