Template talk:Infobox basketball biography

Draft

Is there a reason why this is formatted differently? American football and ice hockey infoboxes don't format the draft this way. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:30, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

And neither of those is formatted like the other either. The basketball way shows the relevant info (year, round, pick, draft team) and is concise. If we wanted a different format to show that info, great. I would not recommend or support dropping the round (as hockey does) or draft team (as football does) Rikster2 (talk) 14:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I would like to keep all the four key factors (year, round, pick, team). I'm not sure we need a change but, I do think the NBA's and NFL's format looks better than the NHL. On a related note, I would like to suggest to not mark the player "Undrafted" unless he decleared for the draft or there are sources mentioning that he wasn't drafted. Alvaldi (talk) 18:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Disagree on "undrafted." players are eligible for exactly one draft in their lives so it is notable that they were not selected, especially if they end up playing in the league that didn't draft them (the filed is used for other leagues beyond the NBA, such as the Philippine Basketball Association). Rikster2 (talk) 15:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

For some random player who never played in the NBA and no sources mention him in relations with the draft or the league, for instance Kostas Tsartsaris, then that field is not needed as the infobox is to summarize key facts about the page's subject. However, for someone like Lenny Cooke for example, it should be used because even though he wasn't drafted and didn't play in the NBA, he declared for the draft. Alvaldi (talk) 16:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

It's a bigger deal for Americans as their "domestic" league, but US sources undoubtedly will mention it if they play in the G League or overseas. It used to be that college seniors were automatically entered in the draft, but COVID and NCAA giving extra eligibility made the NBA require seniors declare. But presumably that reverts back eventually. International players now seem to be eligible once they're 22—don't need to declare. For those players, I can see how it might be trivial if no source ever talked about them as an NBA prospect. —Bagumba (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Nationality

This field is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes#For sportspeople. -- Beland (talk) 03:31, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I vote we just eliminate the field from the basketball biography infobox. It’s not used in cases where the birth country is the same anyway. The hullabaloo about it is just another case of overreach from those who desire “one size fits all” across WP subjects and is not worth the hassle. Rikster2 (talk) 14:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

On the one hand, people trivially add "French" to Joel Embiid, though his notability is not associated with being Franch. On the other, Dominique Wilkins was born in France (U.S. military parents), but is American, which would be lost without some field, even if not labelled "Nationality". —Bagumba (talk) 05:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

So? This can all be discussed in the lede/prose of the article. If there is to be controversy about something as straightforward as national team participation then it is more trouble than it is worth Rikster2 (talk) 15:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Ideally, the lead captures most of the lead. But yeah, drive-by editors mess with infobox fields more than they do prose. So, that's the bright side if it goes. —Bagumba (talk) 17:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Pull BBR WNBA links from Wikidata

This infobox should pull the Basketball Reference links for WNBA players from Wikidata like it does for NBA players. There are still a lot of WNBA players with these links missing. Pulling from Wikidata would be a lot faster than adding them manually. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 02:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Seems uncontroversial as it's already done for NBA. —Bagumba (talk) 04:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Alignment display of career history

@Frietjes: I see that you implemented Module:Sports career to handle a person's team history. It seems that the display has different alignments: left aligned for desktop and center for mobile. Can that be made left aligned for both? —Bagumba (talk) 06:46, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Bagumba, yes, I have added explicit left alignment. Frietjes (talk) 14:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Frietjes. —Bagumba (talk) 15:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

HOF player and coach links

Is there a really a difference between being inducted into the Hall of Fame as a player or coach? If not, then the labels have no reason to exist at all. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:58, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I guess it's more for a person who had multiple roles to distinguish how they made the HOF e.g. Phil Jackson was inducted as a coach, not a player. I'd be okay to remove the distinction, and leave the details for the body. Considering the ibx was never extended to have Jerry West show his individual contributor induction or Olympic team induction, it's anyways incomplete. And the current design with Lenny Wilkens is a waste of space to repeat the same URL link. I don't think any other sports ibx makes the distinction either. —Bagumba (talk) 05:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Also for Wilkins, why have "Inducted in 2006" for college HOF, but not for basketball HOF. Suggest tightening and remove for consistency. —Bagumba (talk) 05:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

If the labels don't need to be listed, then we should just be using |HOF= and remove |HOF_player= and |HOF_coach=. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 14:27, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, there are differences between the two which can be seen with Bill Sharman's playing and coaching links. So while the two templates do serve a purpose, I still think we should either just use a single HOF parameter or merge |HOF_player= to |HOF= and keep |HOF_coach= in the cases that warrant it like Bill Sharman. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I can add in some logic where if the two parameter values are the same it only outputs one line, if that would make everyone happier. Primefac (talk) 21:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Isn't that how the current formatting is handled? The issue remains with Bill Sharman as both values (bill-sharman and bill-sharman1) link to valid, but different pages. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No, currently if all three parameters were given, all three lines would show. This is fine for Sharman, but for someone like Wilkens it leads to repetition. Primefac (talk) 21:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

In cases like that yes. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Tracking category set up, currently only 3 players with duplicate HOF links but it will take some time to populate. Primefac (talk) 14:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems that Wilkens also has separate player and coach pages. —Bagumba (talk) 15:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

NBA.com

Is there any reason to use both NBA.com and Basketball Reference for stats? Also, nether link works for players that never played in the NBA like Oscar Schmidt but the BR link still shows as the infobox is calling Basketball Reference NBA player ID from Wikidata when local values set aren't set, so how could this be handled? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The sites have slight variations in what they present and how. I don't think we should have a WP:LINKFARM, but two isn't excessive. Re: Schmidt, the Basketball Reference link goes to https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/schmios01.html, which is a working—albeit (currently) mininal—page. Basketball Reference is evolving beyond the NBA, so the Wikidata description of "Basketball Reference NBA player ID" is no longer entirely accurate. Perhaps the site will eventually not have a separate international page for him. —Bagumba (talk) 15:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

True, but that still doesn't solve the issue of having stat profiles listed with no stats actually provided. The NBA.com and BR links would at least look better on a single line (if both exist). And on a related note, would it be worth renaming the Medals section to "International" and include the international stats page there? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 15:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I never liked "international", because it's ambiguous whether it means playing for a national team or playing professionally away from one's home country. Most NBA bios have a section named "National team career" in prose (e.g. LeBron James § National team career), if relevant. —Bagumba (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

True, but that still doesn't solve the issue of having stat profiles listed with no stats actually provided: Perhaps, but we're just blindly providing the link because it's in Wikidata. What's the alternative? FWIW, the Schmidt page does have "More Oscar Schmidt pages at Sports Reference" at the bottom. —Bagumba (talk) 16:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

It can be suppressed locally on his page if deemed unnecessary. I'm not that knowledgeable about the history of basketball, but I can't imagine there are many other cases like this anyway. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)