Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

Notice of reliable sources noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Sports Publishing/Skyhorse and Triumph Books. Thank you. Left guide (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Basketball Reference links

FYI: I went to Wikidata to add rookie Adem Bona's BR link (was missing from his infobox), and found there was already a BR entry there, but to a different "International Stats", which was just a blank page.[1] Maybe because he played in Turkey before college? I then found that Kobe also has an "international" page, but his shows Olympic stats.[2]. —Bagumba (talk) 04:22, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

There are two basketball-reference links for Cui Yongxi, as well: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cuiyo01w.html and https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cuiyo01.html. Only the latter has NBA stats. Are the BR links in the infobox controlled in Wikidata these days? Zagalejo (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

NBA Academy bios

Do NBA Academy players get the talk page tag of this project. I just created Oscar Goodman (basketball) and am not sure whether it is premature to tag him here.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd say no, and draw the line at G League players, who at least include players drafted by NBA teams, on two-way contracts, or assigned from the NBA. I don't think we should make the scope any player slightly related to the core NBA, like how older WNBA players were tagged under NBA proj.—Bagumba (talk) 18:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

This project excludes WNBA?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I dont see Talk:Caitlin Clark tagged. —Bagumba (talk) 03:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger and Bagumba: There's a WNBA task force that's subsidiary to this NBA project at WP:WNBA which is tagged as allegedly inactive. Not sure if/how much that's a factor here. Left guide (talk) 09:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall much WNBA discussion here. Including WNBA within the NBA's WP:PROJSCOPE just bloats page alert lists, unless there is consensus to include it. —Bagumba (talk) 10:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Where else can people go to get WNBA editorial issues addressed. Someone pinged my talk page and I referred them here and then they went silent on the issue. Where should I send them.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:03, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger: Where else can people go to get WNBA editorial issues addressed. WT:WNBA would be the place for that. The very last sentence of WP:WikiProject says:

Any "inactive" WikiProject can be revived if the project has a "group" of new editors that would make the project an active place for discussions related to improvement of pages within the project's scope.

So that means two editors (in this case you and the someone who pinged your talk page) expressing interest in coordinating together in the same topic area should be sufficient to change the status of WP:WNBA to {{WikiProject status/Semi-active}}. Left guide (talk) 03:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger @Left guide: Wikipedia:WikiProject Basketball/Women's basketball is active. In fact, I found Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball/Archive_4#WNBA from 2013, where that was the suggestion in lieu of WP:NBA. —Bagumba (talk) 10:16, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

List of teams and map added to basketball season pages

An editor has started adding sections for teams and map of teams in NBA and other basketball season pages (for example, 1985–86 NBA season#Teams and 1985–86 NBA season#Map of teams). There is no need to repeat the same information when there are standings tables and the number of teams is usually consistent. That is just a useless decoration. – sbaio 14:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

The map is useful.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Other basketball leagues do this, but those have promotion and relegation, so there are always changes from the previous season. One country that has a similar closed system is Australia, and in articles there is a separate teams section, e.g. 2024 NRL season#Teams. Having a closed system is not a reason on why US sports season articles not do this, as sports season articles do it.

One sorta similar thing are candidates sections in elections articles, you'd see the same list anyway at another part of the article albeit in a usually different order. I'd rather keep this article and just have the division, coaches and arenas column, and remove the capacity column, and keep colors to a minimum.

The map is pretty useful, and shows a snapshot in that moment in time how the divisions actually looked like, something a table can't do.

Again, these are US articles, and I don't expect them to follow how the rest of the world does. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Frontsfan2005: should be seeking a consensus at respective sports WikiProjects, before making such additions to season pages. GoodDay (talk) 17:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sbaio: see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 50#Recent maps added to MLB season articles for the decision to possibly remove maps from MLB season articles. however ultimately kept up on season pages for MLB, NFL and MLS etc. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Tim Duncan nominated for FAR

I have nominated Tim Duncan for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. ScarletViolet tc 14:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Should this discussion be listed at Wikipedia:Featured article review#Featured_article_reviews? Zagalejo (talk) 22:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Added now here. @ScarletViolet: Courtesy notification. —Bagumba (talk) 09:42, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

New NBA categories

While I have questions if these categories should even exist, the newly-created categories Category:NBA championship-winning players and Category:NBA championship-winning players from Canada need criteria for inclusion added. For example, should it only be for players on the playoff roster? Probably. Thoughts? Rikster2 (talk) 20:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

At minimum they would have to be contracted to the team, i.e. not players who were waived or traded away during the season. For instance, Scot Pollard[3][4][5] and Caron Butler were not on their teams playoffs roster but are considered NBA champions.[6][7] Alvaldi (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The infobox uses WP:NBARING, which says the player must have been on the playoff roster.—Bagumba (talk) 06:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Why does the special category for Canadian players exist?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 06:22, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Overcategorization? —Bagumba (talk) 06:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rikster2, @Alvaldi: On a related topic, there was no comment earlier at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Archive_47#NBA_champion_in_infobox:_Two-way_players_and_Avery_Bradley about Avery Bradley in 2020, when he was on the Lakers roster but opted out of the bubble, and two-way players, who are not eligible for the playoffs. —Bagumba (talk) 06:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd say keep it simple by mirroring the WP:NBARING infobox consensus since that's a clear black-and-white inclusion criteria that also maintains consistency across the project. Anything else would be too subjective and/or create discrepancies, thus opening the door to further editorial disputes. Left guide (talk) 08:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Sporting News awards sources

Does anyone have access to old Sporting News issues or compilations? At Jamaal Wilkes, there's been the unsourced claim (almost from Day 1):

The Sporting News named Wilkes to its NBA All-Pro Second Team three years.

I have only found a source for 1981's All-Pro teams.[8] Somewhat suprisingly, I find that longtime unsourced content that initially seems made up often pans out. Interesting that Sporting News used to have those annual NBA guides, but never listed their own awards in them.—Bagumba (talk) 05:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Player nationalities in NBA draft articles

I'm looking to form a consensus on which nationality to list in NBA draft articles. Currently they list the final or current nationality of the player and not their accurate nationality from when then they were accurately drafted. For example, the 1996 NBA draft lists Jeff Nordgaard as Polish and Joe Vogel as Lebanese even though neither would actually become citizens and represent these nations until years later. Personally, I believe that the player should be listed at their nationality at the time of draft and particularly for American players as they were not considered international applicants at the time and could be confused as having been an international applicant. We can add footnotes explaining that the player later represented X country internationally. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

There was a somewhat recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 47 § Player lists and flags Media coverage of "international" players seemed to gain traction after the Dream Team and NBA's push to position itself as a global league. Most sources talk about where a player was born outside of the U.S. (exception: you were American born on an overseas military base, which doesn't happen much anymore). Later nationalities through naturalization aren't really tracked by sources; it seems to be WP:UNDUE trivia that some editors throw in.—Bagumba (talk) 17:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems to be more of an issue with older Drafts (or at least ones that happened before Wikipedia was created) where editors were probably going off FIBA listings at the time. I have switched 2 players back to the US from their listed nation (Darnell Mee became an Australian citizen 13 years after the 1993 NBA draft & Ron Ellis became a Belgian citizen at best 8 years after the 1992 NBA draft). It just seems a bit inaccurate to list the player as a later nationality, rather than the current one. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, unless sources start talking about drafts w.r.t to naturalized citizens it later produced, later nationalities are irrelvant. —Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Really the only high-level players I can think of the top of my head are Shawn Bradley who I don't think started playing for Germany until the 2000's and Matisse Thybulle, who was originally listed on Wikipedia at the 2019 NBA draft as an American but was a confirmed a dual US/Australian citizen (RS ref HERE) then re-listed as just Australian a year later (and after a full season in the NBA) when he finally declared for FIBA in order to be part of the Olympic qualifying team. Most are guys where there is a clear line from playing in the US to the overseas country where they made their career. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the system of listing nationalities at the time of drafting and including a note about later representation. For players with dual nationality when selected, whichever country they represent at a senior level should be used. CalDoesIt (talk) 17:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

There's Jordan Clarkson (born in U.S., later played for Phillipines). Going back, sources talk about drafted players born outside of the U.S. So we try to capture that in the tables. But an American playing for a different national team is not something that's covered w.r.t a specific draft, so that tidbit seems trivial. These additions always remind me of a race draft. —Bagumba (talk) 16:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

American-born, Chinese-descent Kyle Anderson of that same draft class is a similar example. With Clarkson, it is unclear whether he held a Filipino passport at the time of the draft (sources primarily stating that he received it "after the age of 16") so I would suggest listing him as American but with a note explaining his later Filipino involvement. His own article says that he is on the team as a naturalized player. Presently in the 2014 NBA draft article, both nationalities are listed for him: one country he never played for and one country where he likely did not have citizenship at the time. CalDoesIt (talk) 15:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree that draft articles should show citizenship as of the time of the draft. I would also suggest this should extend to other info like names and positions so this stuff doesn’t constantly morph. Draft night is a point in time. Rikster2 (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of names, I have been dealing with situations like Akkem→Hakeem Olajuwon and Lew Alcindor→Kareem Abdul-Jabbar since 2016. Good thing that certain editors look at some of the pages from time to time so I do not have to come back there often. – sbaio 15:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Brooklyn Nets location... again

Two discussions were started about location of the Brooklyn Nets – Talk:National Basketball Association#Correct location for Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks and Talk:Brooklyn Nets#Location. We have been through this many times in the past, but certain editors (old or new) like to come and question longstanding consensus. Your opinions are welcome in any of the new discussions. – sbaio 15:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sbaio, new editors don't know about previous discussions and consensus, which is why the same question arose again. For example, @Oknazevad, pointed out that there was a previous discussion at Talk:Brooklyn_Nets/Archive_1#Home_city_location_for_the_Brooklyn_Nets. How would I or any other editor have known about the existence of this archived discussion? Assadzadeh (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Without opining on the merits, from a procedural standpoint, fragmented discussions are unhelpful in forming consensus. Since this issue appears to affect multiple related articles (at least NBA and Brooklyn Nets), it's best to have a single discussion in a centralized location such as here, and ping everyone involved, which I will do momentarily. Left guide (talk) 21:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Pinging everyone involved in the article talk page discussions who hasn't yet participated here @Alielmi1207, Banan14kab, Bagumba, and Oknazevad:. Left guide (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

We should stick to the already open discussion at Talk:National Basketball Association instead of opening a third one. oknazevad (talk) 01:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Gui Santos, input needed

There are two articles for the same player (Gui Santos and Gui Carvalho) that need to be merged. Could folks chime in at Talk:Gui Carvalho#Merge proposal to help move it along? It’s been sitting out there for a month. Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 15:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)