Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 32

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Correct wording of words "former" or "retired" in the opening paragraph

There's a discussion regarding the correct usage of these words in the opening paragraph here. Your input would be appreciated. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Portland Trail Blazers – Franchise leaders

Some random user (probably sockpuppet of IPs' with exactly same edits) keeps updating the Franchise leaders section at Portland Trail Blazers article. Help would be appreciated in dealing with this issue as I'm already at 3 reverts. – Sabbatino (talk) 18:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Fred VanVleet NBA and NBADL debuts

Can anyone find sources for the NBA debut of Fred VanVleet? Also, this link suggest he may have spent time in the NBA D-league. Do we have any sources for an assignment and debut?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:35, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

He played a few seconds for the Raptors on November 9: [1]. (You'll have to expand the play-by-play to see.) Some sites will round his playing time to zero minutes, but he did get into the game. Your link includes a link to the Raptors 905 Twitter account, which should confirm that he was with the D-League team at one point. My guess is that he'll be going back and forth between the Raptors and their D-League team throughout the season. Zagalejo^^^ 01:34, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

The Raptors 905 season doesn't even start until tomorrow night, so he has not debuted. He was assigned today (see here) and I would expect he will play then. He definitely got into the one NBA game on November 9, he just didn't accumulate any stats. Rikster2 (talk) 02:43, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Nick VanderLaan AfD

Hi all. I would appreciate comments from the basketball community at the following AfD on Nick VanderLaan. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:41, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

infobox highlights

I am never sure what the current consensus is regarding infobox highlights at any given time. However, at Jahlil Okafor, there is a current reversion cycle because I can not understand how being an All-American could be more encyclopedic than being National Player of the Year at the high school level.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:17, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Joe (Josef?) Spudich

Can anyone find the smoking gun reference that links the article on Josef Spudich (an American football player) as the same guy who played in the National Basketball League (Joe Spudich)? This Peach Basket Society page indicates it is likely the same guy but cannot verify it is. I tried finding more info but came up short. @Cbl62:, you always have great luck finding historical sources, could you please give it a look as well? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

I have done some poking around and have found nothing conclusive connecting them. I will continue to look. Rikster2 (talk) 21:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Points per minute

How does Klay Thompson's 60 points in 29 minutes rank in points per minute. I think anything over 2 is pretty high for at least 40- or maybe 50-point performances.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:26, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

• From what I can tell of the 66 60-point games it is second to Wilt for 60-point games (the best in the last 54 years).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 32 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

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Points per minute

How does Klay Thompson's 60 points in 29 minutes rank in points per minute. I think anything over 2 is pretty high for at least 40- or maybe 50-point performances.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:26, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

• From what I can tell of the 66 60-point games it is second to Wilt for 60-point games (the best in the last 54 years).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 32 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

• Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:04, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Donatas Motiejūnas saga

The Rockets re-added Motiejūnas to the roster on their website. However, there are no reports about him signing with them (primary or secondary). He did not report to the team and is not willing to do so for now. At the moment it looks like some kind of conflict between both sides. I believe that we should not add him to any roster on Wikipedia until this gets resolved, but there are some users that keep re-adding him or the team. Any thoughts about this situation? – Sabbatino (talk) 07:07, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

All-time leader in [insert statistic]

You people might be aware that there are users who keep adding this (this has been happening in Conley's article for some time) or similar stuff in the players' infoboxes. I know that DaHuzyBru is also opposed to such additions. However, it looks like this is included in some other players' (current or retired) infoboxes, and I am not sure if this was discussed. Should we include or remove it? Any thoughts about these additions would be appreciated. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not totally against it and I'm certainly not going to waste my time with stubborn editors continuously re-adding it, but I have removed all-time leading scorer additions from Mike Conley Jr. and DeMar DeRozan based off the fact that WP:NBASTYLE does not have those listed in the "Infobox highlights" section. If it is not listed in that list of acceptable highlights, then it shouldn't be in the infobox i.e. this addition. DaHuzyBru (talk) 14:06, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm OK with removing it. The only team honor that seems notable enough for an infobox is retired number. Most of WP:NBASTYLE is on stuff there is consensus to include, not necessarily what has to be deleted (though they're often one in the same). We can formally add this one to Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Style_advice#NBA_highlights under "Some items for which there has been consensus to exclude from the infobox include ..." when there is consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 20:23, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

I am not a fan of franchise leaders in the infobox. Rikster2 (talk) 20:32, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Me neither; league record holders are one thing, but franchises are too variable in history and quality for it to be consistently notable. oknazevad (talk) 04:01, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Since there's a clear objection with inclusion of this in the infobox, I went ahead and removed "franchise scoring leader" from every players' infoboxes. I'll do the same with all other franchise statistic leaders. A mention in prose is enough. Thank you. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I've updated WP:NBASTYLE to say these should not be listed.—Bagumba (talk) 20:10, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Ronald Roberts infobox

Moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball § Ronald Roberts infobox

Ronald Roberts has recently been released by his Turkish team. He signed in July 2016 [2] and parted ways with the team on January 2, 2017 [3]. His final game for the team came on December 10, 2016. Now – should his infobox list "2016–2017 Tofaş" or "2016 Tofaş"? Myself and Bozalegenda disagree on how it should be listed. I'm arguing that it should be "2016–2017" based off a long-standing norm that I felt came out of a discussion that was had in 2014 when we discussed an infobox case for Andrew Bynum (that discussion can be found here) i.e. once a player debuts for a team, the full tenure (or full time spent with the team) should be listed in the infobox. For Roberts, his tenure with Tofaş officially ran from 4 July 2016 to 2 January 2017. User:Bozalegenda on the other hand is arguing that 2017 should not be listed because he did not play in 2017. I do not think this is the established norm. What are people's thoughts on this? DaHuzyBru (talk) 18:18, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I support the "2016–2017" listing. Going by Bozalegenda's logic, we should list Joel Embiid's playing career as "2016–present" since he started playing this season, which is against the accepted standard. – Sabbatino (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• List full tenure, not actual years played I think either method (tenure vs years actually appearing in a game) is arbitrary, and am OK with either as long as it is consistent. The years to be listed wasn't formally !voted on at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball/Archive_6#Teams_listed_in_biography_infobox. However, it seems that examples there from 2014 that still remain intact in 2017 like Seth Curry listing his full Memphis tenure, Andrew Bynum (Cleveland), or Maalik Wayns (LAC) indicate a precedence for listing full tenure, not years where they actually played in a game.—Bagumba (talk) 19:52, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Bynum and Embiid are not the same thing as Roberts. They were members of their clubs, but not played because of injuries. And Roberts played his last game on December 10, 2016, and left the club that same month, just official announcement was on January 2, 2017. He never appeared for his club in 2017, so it makes no sense to have that year in infobox. I was for years doing edits like this, and now in 2017 some of you have a problem with this? If someone signed on December 31, and make his debut in January next year it makes no sense to have both years in infobox. There are so many players (just some cases: Lamont Hamilton, Donnie Mcgrath, Nikos Zisis, Manny Harris, Dejan Musli, Justin Carter, Alex Acker...) with this kind of listing and this is how we always doing in European basketball. I dont know for NBA but in Europe this was always like this.--Bozalegenda (talk) 20:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Actually, Roberts has not played in the NBA, and this is a generic topic anyways, so it's more appropriate to be discussed at WT:BASKETBALL.—Bagumba (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Mo Williams (again)

Now that trade deadline is coming, a few reports surfaced about the Cavaliers–Hawks trade (Korver to Cavaliers, Williams to Hawks and Dunleavy Jr. to some other team). He said that he intends to retire, but it is clear that he isn't retired as of now and is actually on the injured players' list. He's still on the Cavaliers' roster. This article specifically states that he never formally retired and can be traded to other team. We should reconsider his status. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

If he's still on the active roster, he should be listed as a member of the Cavs. Prose in the body can say that he does intend to retire.—Bagumba (talk) 23:15, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Rashard Lewis retirement

When did Rashard Lewis retire? There's nothing about that in the article and I can't find any sources that would clarify his retirement. – Sabbatino (talk) 19:45, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I don't remember an announcement but this article seems to indicate he is retired. Rikster2 (talk) 19:57, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Please take part in a discussion about specifying league in club history in infobox

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball#League specifiers in the basketball player infobox Rikster2 (talk) 02:54, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

TFD notification

Please comment at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_January_10#Template:NBA_minutes_leaders.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:53, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Convert National Basketball Association rivalries to a list

The National Basketball Association rivalries article is currently a WP:COATRACK for WP:OR on non-significant rivalries, and only serves as an invitation to build on the WP:EXAMPLEFARM. I'm proposing to convert it to a list, which will have a link to standalone articles on specific rivalries. This will address WP:UNDUE amount of text on stuff like "Los Angeles Lakers vs. Phoenix Suns". Any objections?—Bagumba (talk) 20:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Given the WP:SILENCE, I'm assuming there are no objections and will proceed.—Bagumba (talk) 08:19, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Category:College basketball teams in the NBA draft has been nominated for discussion

Category:College basketball teams in the NBA draft, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Grondemar 07:13, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Category:College basketball teams in the Women's National Basketball Association Draft has been nominated for discussion

Category:College basketball teams in the Women's National Basketball Association Draft, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Grondemar 07:13, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Philadelphia 76ers' location

Just wanted to let everyone know that recently some user changed 76ers' location from Philadelphia to Camden, NJ. Of course I reverted that addition, but I also want some clarification/reminder about the situation. If I remember correctly we list the arena's and not practice facility's/team office's location? Because if we go by that someone's logic then there would be 4 or 5 teams whose locations would have to be changed. – Sabbatino (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Please help dealing with this as the content was inserted again and that user just doesn't listen. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:53, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Maybe it's best to avoid the whole "based in..." construction. "Based in" is too vague. You could just spell everything out: say that the team plays in Philadelphia, and has a practice facility and team office in Camden, NJ. Zagalejo^^^ 17:18, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

@Zagalejo: Seems like Talk:Philadelphia_76ers#Headquartered_in_Camden was started a few days ago. I've echoed your "based in" sentiments there, but you may want to chime in there as well.—Bagumba (talk) 18:36, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Zagalejo^^^ 00:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

"Main sponsor"

I've noticed that some teams have a "Main sponsor" field in their infobox. How is that term defined? I've noticed changes like this. I imagine that user is thinking about jersey sponsorship, but is the jersey sponsor always the "main" sponsor? The 76ers have many corporate partnerships. Zagalejo^^^ 00:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Inboxes are a dumping ground for trivial information. It could be said it's more relevant in Europe, but even for football it's not listed in infobox for Manchester United F.C.—Bagumba (talk) 01:29, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

It isn't relevant to the NBA at this point. If they ever go to sponsorship rights (as has been discussed to no resolution) then perhaps it'd be worth including. Until then I'd disable the parm or just delete the info. Rikster2 (talk) 02:12, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

It should be removed from the infobox until it takes effect in real life. There's even more problems with infoboxes as some teams list "Main sponsor", "CEO", "President" or "Team manager", while others don't. – Sabbatino (talk) 17:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Leading scorer in Career Highlights & Awards Section

So I've come to understand that being the leading scorer for anything in the NBA isn't an exact highlight, but has it been officially declared not to include this in all NBA player infoboxes? Banan14kab (talk) 04:05, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Read WP:NBASTYLE. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:29, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

"leading scorer for anything" is a pretty wide range. What specifically do you disagree with?—Bagumba (talk) 17:47, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing with anything. I just noticed that it isn't noted in players' infoboxes anymore so I was curious if there was a change. For example Kobe Bryant's box no longer has a bulletpoint for him being the Lakers all-time leading scorer. Kareem Abdul Jabbar's box doesn't note that he is the all-time regular season leading scorer, etc. There was one player who's box still has an all-time scoring record so before I changed it I wanted to make sure.Banan14kab (talk) 19:47, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

@Banan14kab: What player's article is that? I thought that I removed it from every players' articles. – Sabbatino (talk) 21:05, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

@Sabbatino; Ray Allen's infobox. I'm referring to his all-time leading record for 3 point field goals made. Banan14kab (talk) 08:33, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Oh. But that doesn't change the fact as this isn't an award either. Mentioning in prose would be better. – Sabbatino (talk) 08:40, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

@Banan14kab:There's consensus on not including franchise leaders. As for NBA career leaders, I'm not sure anyone's brought it up before.—Bagumba (talk) 13:22, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

@Bagumba Well like I mentioned earlier, Kareem's leading regular season record is removed and so is Jordan's all-time playoff leading scoring record from their respective infoboxes. So I figured it covered any type of all-time scoring record. Banan14kab (talk) 16:27, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I removed them when I deleted the "[Insert team] all-time leading [insert statistic]" lines. These achievements should be listed in prose as those are not awards of any kind and they will change. – Sabbatino (talk) 20:27, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Unrecognized potential NBA player

Hello! Can someone help me recognizing this guy? [4] The photo was taken during 2016 All-Star weekend, and he was interviewed by tsn so I figured that he might be NBA player, but I have no idea who he is Dudek1337 (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Dudek1337, that is Isaiah Austin. —DangerousJXD (talk) 21:54, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! Added the photo to his page Dudek1337 (talk) 22:02, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Discussion about retired numbers at WP:NFL

There is a discussion concerning listing of retired numbers in the infobox that may pertain to this project at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#Are numbers retired by the current team, or by the team they played for? Lizard (talk) 22:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Current players in the lede (Cavaliers' situation again...)

There's a discussion here. Please give your input there. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:22, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Bob Harris

I found Bob Harris (basketball) on the page of 'Living people on EN wiki who are dead on other wikis'. I found plenty of sources that give his death date but most of them aren't great. I usually don't work on sports articles, so I thought that someone here could tell me if this is an acceptable source, not for notability, but just confirm his date of death. Thanks, Leschnei (talk) 00:38, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't know much about that site, but it doesn't strike me as any better than the many similar sites online.

Besides the death date, I'm also a little confused about this guy's middle name. What's weird is that basketball-reference has changed the middle name over time; see [5] and [6]. At some point, they also added the death date, but I'm not sure where they got that from. For what it's worth, the last print version of the Official NBA Encyclopedia (2000) doesn't include a death date, and lists his middle name as Azzel.

There may not be anything available online to clarify matters. Maybe someone at the Oklahoma State library could help? Zagalejo^^^ 14:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

This would add credence to the death date, but I don't think findagrave is considered a reliable source. Rikster2 (talk) 16:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I saw that link too, and went a step further. I contacted the person who added the findagrave content, and she said that she'd try to retrieve the archived copy of the obituary that she had at the time. She said that she's from Harris' hometown of Linden and that Anderson is his mother's maiden name. All signs from this interaction appear to suggest that this is reliable information. I'll update this thread if I learn more, but we may be able to tentatively use the template Template:Find a Grave with the link as a reference. — Myasuda (talk) 01:33, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into that! Zagalejo^^^ 15:51, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Janice was nice enough to send me a photocopy of the Robert Harris obituary (slightly cropped). I've added a reference to the obituary in the article but decided to retain the findagrave reference since there's no available link to the original newsprint. — Myasuda (talk) 03:03, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! It's great that she was able to help. Zagalejo^^^ 14:20, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

President parameter in Infobox basketball club

What person should be listed there? We list Phil Jackson for the Knicks, but it's the opposite for the Lakers, where we list Jeanie Buss. And this link specifically says that Jeanie Buss is the governor, while Magic Johnson is now the president of basketball operations. There should be some consistency, because the Knicks have 1 other president beside Phil Jackson, but he's omitted. And for example, we don't list anyone for the Brooklyn Nets. Any thoughts would be appreciated. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:20, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Since noone was interested in this, I changed the president of the Lakers' to Magic Johnson and added the source for that. – Sabbatino (talk) 12:32, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Governor refers to person that represents team at league meetings. Buss is still the president, overseeing both business/marketing as well as basketball operations for LAL. Magic reports to her, as he is in charge of just basketball operations. Listing Magic as just plain "President" is misleading and overstaing his position.—Bagumba (talk) 02:27, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

She might be overseeing business/marketing, but the team articles clearly says "Lakers Name Earvin "Magic" Johnson President of Basketball Operations". And every other team list President of Basketball operations in that field. If we list someone then we do it identically for every team. – Sabbatino (talk) 08:46, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

For another data point, Michael Reinsdorf of the Chicago Bulls is considered the team president, but he is the COO, not the president of basketball operations. [7]. The Bulls don't have a position with the exact name "president of basketball operations," though John Paxson and Gar Forman arguably share that role. NBA teams will have different organizational hierarchies, so in many cases, an infobox field like "president" will be ambiguous. Zagalejo^^^ 14:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The Brooklyn Nets would be another example. Their website specifically says "President, ONEXIM Sports and Entertainment Holding USA, Inc. – Irina Pavlova", but for some reason we don't list it. And now I have a question – should we completely remove this parameter as some team's have different hierarchy? – Sabbatino (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

It may be best to remove the parameter. You can't neatly divide every team's front office into the same categories. Zagalejo^^^ 07:49, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Back to LAL, Buss is clearly the president, as reported by the Los Angeles Times and listed in the Lakers Media Guide: "Entering her 18th season, fourth as President, Jeanie Buss is responsible for running all aspects of the Los Angeles Lakers organization. Buss leads Lakers business operations ... and also oversees the team’s basketball operations ..."[8]. WP:OSE isn't a compelling argument just because some articles mislead the reader with a label of "President" for someone who is actually just president of basketball operations. It the intent is to list the operations lead, then the inbox label needs to be clearer. I'm OK with just removing "President" altogether too. For the NBA, it's probably more important who the team governor is.—Bagumba (talk) 11:40, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Manny Harris D-League situation

Can someone explain to me how the NBA DLeague's leading scorer was not a DLeague All-Star game selection? Is there an encyclopedic story?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:07, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

The Texas Legends' website called it an "inconceivable All-Star snub" [9], but I don't see any substantial discussion about it. It could just be a weird voting quirk. Tyson Chandler once won the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year Award without making the All-Defensive First Team. Zagalejo^^^ 04:40, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Thx.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:53, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

naming convention of team accomplishment articles

See Category:National Basketball Association accomplishments and records by team.

• List of Boston Celtics accomplishments and records
• Brooklyn Nets accomplishments and records
• Charlotte Hornets accomplishments and records
• Chicago Bulls accomplishments and records
• Denver Nuggets accomplishments and records
• List of Houston Rockets statistics and records
• Los Angeles Lakers accomplishments and records
• Memphis Grizzlies accomplishments and records
• Miami Heat accomplishments and records
• Milwaukee Bucks accomplishments and records
• Minnesota Timberwolves accomplishments and records
• New Orleans Pelicans accomplishments and records
• List of Oklahoma City Thunder accomplishments and records
• Philadelphia 76ers accomplishments and records
• Phoenix Suns accomplishments and records
• Portland Trail Blazers accomplishments and records
• Sacramento Kings accomplishments and records
• Toronto Raptors accomplishments and records

Should the three "List of XYZ accomplishments and records" articles be moved and standardized as "XYZ accomplishments and records"? UW Dawgs (talk) 16:23, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

In hindsight, the "List of ..." format appears more correct, per Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists. While a general naming convention isn't required, it may be helpful to see what has been done elsewhere.

For direct comparisons, we have Category:American football team records and statistics (NFL-no article naming standard), Category:Major League Baseball team records (MLB-List of XYZ team records), Category:National Hockey League statistical records (NHL-List of XYZ records). The content within the NBA articles is substantially identical to the other three and is a valid comparison.

So for brevity and clarity I'm proposing moving all to the MLB format of "List of XYZ team records" and explicitly dropping the use of "accomplishments." UW Dawgs (talk) 16:56, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd say, why bother? You're never going to find internal consistency throughout the whole of Wikipedia, so I wouldn't make something like this a priority. At most, move the Celtics, Rockets, and Thunder articles to match the other article titles in this list above. Then at least that specific set of articles would be consistent. But I wouldn't worry about what MLB articles do.

In fact, I think it would be misleading to drop "accomplishments" from the titles. When I think of "record", I think of Guinness Book-type records, but most of the items in these lists are not actual superlatives. Zagalejo^^^ 15:49, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Team Season Page's Structure

RichieConant34 (talk) 01:08, 9 March 2017 (UTC) While doing a little bit of research on Ray Allen I noticed that the 1996-97 Milwaukee Bucks season page had a team stats chart that was completely empty. My first thought was to get the statistics and fill in the chart, but I wanted to make sure that this particular chart was following the same format as other team pages. I noticed as I went to the 1996-97 Boston Celtics season page that the two pages didn't have similar formats at all. It turns out even though these two pages had different formats, the differences were nothing compared to other team season pages. I know that some team pages should show slight differences in terms of formatting depending on their success throughout the season, but I would assume playoff teams would follow a certain guideline of formatting and non-playoff teams would follow their respective formatting. I think we should come together and set a certain guideline for NBA Team Season pages to provide consistency and reliability to the sight. I'd like to make some sort of motion that we should try to follow a guideline similar to the 1996-97 Milwaukee Bucks season page. I'd like to hear what you guys have to say, but I really believe that this is something that should be fixed.

If you're looking for more examples of the major differneces between team season pages, you can honestly search up any two teams in any given season and you'll see. Here's another example: 2015–16 New Orleans Pelicans season and 2015–16 Sacramento Kings season.

The de facto current consensus for format is more likely to be like one of the recent seasons. Why not base it off the current season, like 2016–17 Golden State Warriors season? Feel free to document it at WP:NBASTYLE.—Bagumba (talk) 16:43, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

NBA Style guides

Recently I decided that there should be style guides for the NBA, kind of like the ones used by the WikiProject for the National Football League. If there's anyone willing to help, visit this page. Note that it is a moved page from a failed draft, so I'm working to resolve this. Zacchaeus (talk) 17:45, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

There's already WP:NBASTYLE.—Bagumba (talk) 18:16, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, but none for team seasons, NBA seasons overall, and the playoffs, so I'm going to need help building those soon.—Zacchaeus (talk) 19:56, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

What is "The Shot"?

Please see The Shot, where IP editors have repeatedly [10][11][12][13][14] replaced the former content (about Michael Jordan's 1989 shot to beat Cleveland in the 1989 playoffs) with entirely new, almost unsourced content about Kyrie Irving's shot in Game 7 of the 2016 NBA finals. Note also The Shot (disambiguation) which lists a couple of other famous shots in NBA games in addition to these two. I don't doubt that material about Irving's shot belongs somewhere on Wikipedia (2016 NBA Finals#Game 7 comes to mind), but it shouldn't be added in a way that simply removes longstanding and better written content about Jordan, without discussion. And I have some doubts that any of these plays need to be covered in an article with the vague and probably POV title "The Shot". Others' opinions would be valued on this. --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:46, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I finally stopped this issue, hopefully. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zacchaeusbarbour (talk • contribs) 01:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Query

Hello, I apologize if this is a tad out of topic, but could anyone refer me to the person responsible for designing the infobox uniform patterns for the NBA teams? El Alternativo (talk) 13:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Lots of people have had a hand in that over the years. Most recently, User:Ergotelis123 has been doing some work in that area. (See their contributions at Wikimedia Commons.) Zagalejo^^^ 00:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Accidental Denzel Valentine pic

Can someone confirm that I have an accidental picture of Denzel Valentine sitting courtside in this picture File:20170213 Villanova-Depaul Josh Hart at the rim.jpg. If so is the guy next to him anybody notable?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:51, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

That's him. I initially thought that was him mom sitting on his left, but looking at known pictures of her, I'm not so sure anymore. — X96lee15 (talk) 13:08, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I was there with my mother the day before Valentine's Day myself. I'll dig through my photos to see if I have anything better of him (and her if we determine it is his mother). I have been dragging on going through these since I realized I set up my camera wrong and my aperture was only opened half as wide as it should have been f/5.6 instead of f/2.8 that day. My images are much lower quality than the limits of my lens would have allowed if I had set it up correctly that day. I don't know what happened because I thought I had set it at 2.8.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Acceptable source or not?

I was planning on doing a BRFA for the NBA west and east conferences, similar to the current Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SportsStatsBot. The html on the NBA website is pretty confusing, so using http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/standings/ would be much easier. Would that be accepted as a source, or must I use the NBA site's standings? Dat Guy^Talk_Contribs 05:40, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

That's probably as reliable as anything. Zagalejo^^^ 00:16, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

@Zagalejo: And this? Dat Guy^Talk_Contribs 08:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@DatGuy: Yes, basketball-reference.com is reliable too.—Bagumba (talk) 09:15, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

You're invited...

 Note: You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Navigation boxes in coaching articles (again), which involves articles in your WikiProject, regarding the issue of whether or not the navboxes in coaching articles should be collapsed or stay as is. Please comment there and not here. Thanks, Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 06:03, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Did 76ers retire Moses's number?

Did 76ers retire Moses Malone's #2 yet. All I see was this from 2015. I would think there would be more if it happened already or a date was set. I'm removing from articles in the interim.—Bagumba (talk) 16:57, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

The 2016–17 Sixers media guide doesn't list him. It is appropriate to remove these references Rikster2 (talk) 17:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposal for NBA Playoffs

Both the NFL and NHL (Stanley Cup) playoffs are sorted by round and then by either day (NFL) or conference (NHL). Therefore, I've decided on a more uniform change to the NHL mode. It would make scrolling through the Conference Finals easier, for example. Doing it by round should be used for next season's playoffs. Zacchaeus (talk) 14:08, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I even have a demonstration here. Zacchaeus (talk) 15:02, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Opening paragraph on NBA teams' articles

Someone is edit warring on NBA teams' articles over the wording, for example, HERE. That user's argument is that something doesn't belong there, because other teams' articles don't use such wording. What are your opinions about this? – Sabbatino (talk) 16:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Lafayette / Fat Lever article title dispute

There's a brewing name reversion war over whether the article should be Fat Lever or Lafayette Lever. The competing rationales are:

• Fat Lever – "Per COMMONNAME: Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources). He was/is known professionally as "Fat". Also, Google hits are 44,300 ("Fat Lever") to 12,100 ("Lafayette Lever"). It's why Doc Rivers' article isn't titled Glenn Rivers, for instance."
• Lafayette Lever – "I understand your logic behind reverting Mr Lever's page. As a seasoned NBA viewer and historian, I can assure you that Mr. Lever himself prefers his birth name over his unflattering nickname. When he was playing in the 1980's he was always refereed to as Lafayette 'fat' Lever, never just 'Fat' Lever. It is bad form to disregard someone's true name because a few actors have spread a non-accurate moniker. Hopefully Wikipedia is above such low brow attempts at humor." and also "Due to the fact that this former NBA player is in fact not named 'Fat' Lever. His birth, and true name name is Lafayette Lever. Fat Lever is both incorrect and misleading"

Please chime in. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Lafayette Lever#Article title. UW Dawgs (talk) 14:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Transactions date question regarding playoffs

The Draft:List of 2017–18 NBA season transactions includes the firing of the GM of the Orlando Magic, Rob Hennigan. I agree that the Orlando Magic season is over, *but* I have a problem with this being in the 2017-18 list. If the Washington Wizards were to fire their GM (Let's say he was found to have a close personal friendship with an Emu) and then hire Rob Hennigan while they were still in the Playoffs, then that would belong in the 2016-2017. I'd like to propose that season transactions instead of being determined by whether the season is over for a particular team (which would occur on one day for all of the teams that didn't make the playoffs and could occur on fourteen different days for the teams that made the playoffs and didn't make the finals and then on the last day of the finals for the other two teams), to instead just to use the date of the end of the finals.Naraht (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

It's relevant to both seasons. Perhaps just include it in both?—Bagumba (talk) 17:02, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

NBA Development League Development Champion Award

Is NBA Development League Development Champion Award still a thing? Jrcla2 (talk) 01:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Does it pass GNG, or is it only the NBA promoting itself?—Bagumba (talk) 16:48, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Not sure. Either way I can't find any sources indicating the 2016 winner, which makes me call into question the validity of this honor to begin with. Jrcla2 (talk) 23:58, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jrcla2: There was no 2016 winner, it was never announced. Let's wait to see if they announce a winner for 2017. If not, we can add a "(defunct)" note in Template:NBA Development League Awards to be consist with Template:NBA Awards. It was clearly a valid, official award – it was bestowed on a team for four seasons. DaHuzyBru (talk) 11:46, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

NBA rivalries

People keep adding red links of alleged rivalries to List of National Basketball Association rivalries. Am I the only one who thinks 1) these are not notable and 2) we should require articles to be created first, to show they are presumably notable, before adding to this list?—Bagumba (talk) 17:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Some cleanup was done by Oknazevad.—Bagumba (talk) 18:23, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

RfD notice for rivalry

There is a discussion regarding Cavaliers-Warriors rivalry at its entry on the RfD page. You are invited to participate to determine whether redirects are appropriate for rivalries between teams.—Bagumba (talk) 18:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Images

I mentioned this at WP:CBBALL and WP:BBALL, but I will mention it here too. For the last 5 years I have photographed the McDonald's All-American Game. Although I am not a particularly skilled photographer, my images have provided the main image for 26 players on the day they were drafted in the NBA draft. The main images in the WP biography for 2 of the top 3 draftees in the 2015 NBA draft and and the top 3 draftees in the 2016 NBA draft on draft day were from these photoshoots. In past years, people have given me feedback on which images to put in articles on WP. This year, I am asking for feedback at Talk:2017 McDonald's All-American Boys Game. Drop by and state your preferences.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:20, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Request for input

Please consider adding your thoughts at Talk:Cleveland Cavaliers#"Commemorative banner". Thank you. Levdr1lp / talk 10:55, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Please join this discussion as that user is clearly ignoring what is being saying to him. – Sabbatino (talk) 08:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

usage of Category:History of ...

@Djln: has added categorization of various Lakers and 76ers articles including rivalry articles to the new Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers and Category:History of the Philadelphia 76ers categories respectively, in some cases removing the original categorization (Cat:Los Angeles Lakers, Cat:Philadelphia 76ers).

These changes were only partially implemented, so they have introduced categorization inconsistencies with the other teams.

My view is these Lakers and 76ers articles should be reverted to their prior categorization which uses the main team cat ("Cat:City Team") per our current consensus, with the new Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers and Category:History of the Philadelphia 76ers categories deleted. The result would be the return of team-specific articles existing in the team-specific category, while Category:National Basketball Association history by team would house the each team's "History of..." article. Thoughts? UW Dawgs (talk) 04:44, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

He is also doing this. – Sabbatino (talk) 12:34, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

The editor is also involved in the widespread category changes being discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#IMMEDIATE_HELP_NEEDED_-_PLEASE_READ.—Bagumba (talk) 16:30, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: @Bagumba:@Sabbatino: These are perfectly legitimated categories by any standards. I don't really see the issue. From what I can see those editing American basketball catgories are a extremely sensitive to any other editors getting involved. I have never encountered such hostility in my decade plus editing Wikipedia. The reason the above categories were only partially implemented was because of the hostility I encountered elsewhere and I stopped editing American basketball categories until some sort of sanity retured to the situation. DjlnDjln (talk) 14:21, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Djln: You're encouraged to be bold, but we also operate on consensus. It shouldn't be a total surprise that there might be questions or even excitement about mass changes.—Bagumba (talk) 14:29, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Djln: Why did you create Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers and move some, but not all, articles from Los Angeles Lakers to Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers? Was your intent to only do this for Lakers and 76ers, or is your rollout incomplete and the other NBA teams should follow this new convention in your view? I don't understand the purpose (or the user benefit) of your two "History of..." categories, as the existing team categories by definition house "historical" articles. And now team-related articles are in one of two locations, while the exact reasoning and criteria are only known by you. So your intent remains unclear. UW Dawgs (talk) 14:39, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: @Bagumba: It is impossible to be both bold and then have consenus. My intention was to create similar categories for other NBA teams providing they and enough articles to justify one. If all articles/categories are historical then why are there both Los Angeles Lakers and History of the Los Angeles Lakers. By your logic these two articles should be also merged. The criteria for articles in the "History of..." categories is obvious. Do I really have to explain the difference between historical and current topic articles. Djln Djln (talk) 13:10, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

@Djln: Yes, please explain your reasoning. UW Dawgs (talk) 14:32, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

@Djln: Los Angeles Lakers and History of the Los Angeles Lakers are an example of Wikipedia:Summary style, where a major subtopic is covered in more detail in it's own article than in a more general article. As far as the History categories, it's unclear to me whether Category:Los Angeles Lakers games, Category:Los Angeles Lakers seasons, Category:Los Angeles Lakers personnel, or Category:Los Angeles Lakers venues‎ would be part of "History" as well. It would be helpful to clarify this and avoid community resources on a CfD, if possible. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 18:47, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: Really can't be bothered to try explain to people who clearly hav'nt got a clue and seem to have trouble grasping the basics on Wikipedia. If you feel so strongly that these categories are inappropriate or not needed then nominate them for deletion. DjlnDjln (talk) 14:53, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

@Djln: Fourth request from the NBA project, please explain the rationale for your incomplete category edits (Lakers, 76ers) to the project. What are your criteria for moving articles to your new categories?

For example, you kept Family Portrait (Modern Family) (a 2010 TV episode) and all of the historical season articles such as 1947–48 Minneapolis Lakers season in the existing Category:Los Angeles Lakers. Outwardly, these would seem to be part of your new Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers focused on past events(?). Also, you moved current rivalries such as Lakers–Clippers rivalry from the existing Cat to your new Category:History of the Los Angeles Lakers. Articles about ongoing topics doesn't seem to comport with the new "History..." category.

You have significantly changed the categorization scheme for two teams and to date have refused to discuss your actions. NBA project editors don't understand these changes and are unable to replicate them in other team articles, without you addressing your reasoning for creating these new categories. UW Dawgs (talk) 01:40, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Given the editor's refusal to substantively discuss the partial rollout of these two new categories with the project's editors and identical behavior and unaddressed concerns raised at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#IMMEDIATE HELP NEEDED - PLEASE READ, the bold category edits within NBA have been reverted. UW Dawgs (talk) 03:49, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 32/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject National Basketball Association.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject National Basketball Association, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed changes for the NBA Playoffs

I completed my testpage for changes to the NBA Playoffs article advice. I want to see these pages move away from seperate conference sections and group these by round, then by conference, then the matchup (This is used for the Stanley Cup playoffs articles, the same also applies to the NFL playoffs articles, but by day, then by matchup).—Z.I. Barbour (talk) 21:57, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

I created a new testpage since no one responded, and the content was moved to the 2018 NBA Playoffs page (currently hidden). Does anyone support this change or prefer to maintain the status quo? Z.I. Barbour (talk) 16:17, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't have a problem either way. That being said, I'd stick with status quo for consistency. Unless you're prepared to change them all, but doesn't seem to be much benefit to invest the effort.—Bagumba (talk) 16:47, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I like the new one better, good organized and easy to read. Kante4 (talk) 17:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm probably sure it will be adopted into use, but owing to the situation of realigning all the articles would be a pain for anyone to deal with... Z.I. Barbour (talk) 23:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

One more thing; should we lowercase playoffs going forward (See also 2007 NBA playoffs) or continue capitalizing it and add a redirect? Z.I. Barbour (talk) 02:45, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I'd suggest sticking with uppercase, as it's consistent with most pages in Category:National Basketball Association playoffs. Otherwise, open a discussion at WP:RM if you are interested in changing them all.—Bagumba (talk) 04:16, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions, it would take the entire WikiProject to make the changes I proposed on previous NBA playoffs articles...Z.I. Barbour (talk) 01:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

As mentioned earlier, I am planning to move the articles to lowercase playoffs at some point. I'm already starting this with all the brackets, because there aren't that many (about 20). Z.I. Barbour (talk) 16:28, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

....and finished. Z.I. Barbour (talk) 16:56, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

One last thing, we should look into those articles for older playoff material that needs to be updated. It's worth looking into the Category to see if anything is okay in those playoff articles. Like, do they use Template:basketballbox, for instance? It's worth the digging into. Z.I. Barbour (talk) 03:20, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge of the Lakeland Magic to Erie BayHawks (2008–2017)

This may not directly be about the NBA, but I am looking for input on a merge discussion about the NBA D-League/G-League Erie BayHawks (2008–2017) relocation to become the Lakeland Magic. Immediately after the Atlanta Hawks placed their new franchise in Erie as the Erie BayHawks (2017–), which is also planning to relocated to the Atlanta area in 2019. The previous consensus was to have all franchise history on one page and several separated pages for the D-League were merged last season. My posts on the Wikiproject:Basketball has not generated much discussion (here is the longest discussion) and very few regular contributors have discussed, and none have voted, on the topic at Talk:Erie BayHawks (2008–2017). Some local editors want it counted as "one franchise" despite this not being the case (the D-League was reiterated several times that the Magic purchased and relocated the BayHawks to Lakeland while also calling the Atlanta Hawks' BayHawks an expansion per their expansion page). As both BayHawks are likely to be called something else in two years, it seems to make sense to merge the old with the Magic and then move the new page when it moves to College Park, thus keeping all the franchise histories together.

However, if it is deemed that the two BayHawks should be one page, then it should be done similarly to the team pages on the hockey project (such as Hamilton Bulldogs (AHL), Maine Mariners, Fort Wayne Komets, etc.) where it clearly distinguishes that it is two separate franchises. Thank you. Yosemiter (talk) 17:43, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

It has been two weeks and I am still requesting for comment on the merge discussion. It seems a bit odd as all the pages are separated and they need to be merged one way or another and the consensus is split. Yosemiter (talk) 19:47, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Another week and I will again make a request for input on the matter. Yosemiter (talk) 22:28, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Oppose merge on cursory review of the facts. It's still two franchises with separate and ongoing history. I think our bar has been a few cases like the Cleveland Browns where the league makes some overt determination on how it views the history of th respective franchises. Posting same on associated Talk. UW Dawgs (talk) 14:13, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Which merge? There are two proposals (and three options): merge Erie BayHawks (2008–2017) with Erie BayHawks (2017–) (because of shared history but with showing clear distinctions that they are separate franchises), merge the (2008–2017) with Lakeland Magic (as most basketball relocations have one article per franchise with only a few exceptions, ie. Vancouver Grizzlies), or no merge in either case showing the unique history of that franchise as the BayHawks (which it would pass per GNG and WP:NOTPAPER). Yosemiter (talk) 14:38, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Still looking for more input on the rather split opinions at Talk:Erie BayHawks (2008–2017). Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 19:18, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Another ping here, I think we really should get this mess sorted out before July 1. Yosemiter (talk) 13:16, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

white as team color

@Sabbatino and Charlesaaronthompson: Recent edits have us removing and restoring white as an official team color in various team infoboxes. I did not find white in any existing citation and updated some of these articles accordingly by removing white. Since we're all editing the same content, any thoughts before we further undo each other's work? UW Dawgs (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

None of the teams list "white" as their color, but they still use it, and that is why I oppose to removal of it from the infobox. By that logic, top of the Nets' infobox (the field where "Brooklyn Nets" is written) should be black, but that would not help in any way, would it? – Sabbatino (talk) 15:53, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm refering narrowly to Template:Infobox basketball club, "| colors =", and WP:V. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:29, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I do understand that you meant the "| colors =" field, but as I said above – it would mean that the names at the top of the infobox (the same applies to templates) should be changed according to listed colors. – Sabbatino (talk) 18:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs and Sabbatino: I was only trying to edit all 30 National Basketball Association (NBA) team articles to include or remove white based on the citations and references given. Once I noticed that my edits had been reverted by Sabbatino, then I decided to try to edit the articles to include white as a team color in all 30 NBA team articles so as to avoid an edit-war. That's why I've been editing that way. I'm still trying to avoid an edit-war with both of you. I will support whatever consensus on this topic all editors involved feel comfortable with. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 21:21, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Every coin has two sides and this applies to this situation. NBA's "Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheets" says one thing, but some teams' media guides list white for every team. – Sabbatino (talk) 17:55, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I disagree that cited values within "| colors =" must (or should) be reflected in "| color1 = , | color2 = , | color3 =." The latter style the infobox header text (text, background, and border respectively). I'm not proposing changing color1|2|3 for any team and MOS:CONTRAST would prevent doing so in some cases, so it is a non-issue from my perspective. UW Dawgs (talk) 03:23, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Do we want to use the branding of the color? For example, some teams such as the Orlando Magic use Magic Blue, Magic Black, and Magic Silver. Should the "Magic " branding be part of the color name? We don't seem to currently do this NBA or elsewhere, so the apparent consensus is not to brand the colors even if the team does so. UW Dawgs (talk) 03:23, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes across all current teams have been review against their existing citations. White is generally not cited, with Houston and Portland example of exceptions. By intent, the listed colors are now only those which are supported by existing citations, with white mostly removed. Obviously, no objection to anyone choosing to locate and include additional citations in support of official team colors including white. Multiple citations (but no more than one per infobox) which conflated logo colors or uniform colors with official team colors have been removed. The impact is minimal, as 2~3 citations were reduced by one. I didn't act on MOS capitalization issues or change color branding when present (Magic blue, etc). UW Dawgs (talk) 05:21, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: While the "Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" doesn't list white for some teams, various teams' media guides (just some teams list colors in their media guides) list white as one of the colors (Chicago Bulls could be the most obvious example among others). – Sabbatino (talk) 11:49, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

My goal was to stop the stupid edit warring and align our infoboxes with WP:V. If white can be cited as an official color such as via the media guide (not currently a citation on the Bulls article), anyone is welcome to add that citation and restore "white/#FFFFFF" to the infobox accordingly. UW Dawgs (talk) 14:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

grouping annual team articles into a new category

@Djln: has also recently created Category:NBA seasons by team with instances such as Category:1949–50 NBA season by team, then moved all team articles such as 1949–50 Boston Celtics season from Category:1949–50 NBA season to Category:1949–50 NBA season by team.

This seems perfect reasonable in a sub-30 team league such as the NBA, but was highly controversial in the CBK project as a replacement for groupings by conference -I would have supported it as a national rollup cat in CBK, but not as a replacement for conference cat groupings as was implement and led to a brief block. The NBA cat changes seem fine to me, but should be confirmed by NBA project regulars as they are significant and the cat rollout is ongoing across the seasons. UW Dawgs (talk) 04:11, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: You do not have a veto on all things NBA on Wikipedia. Other editors have a right to edit these articles, with or without your approval. Neither can you or your "NBA project regulars" act as a closed shop, vetoing edits by other editors not invited to your little party. Your decision to unilateraly revert the "History of..." categories without first nominating them for the deletion was totally inappropriate. Djln Djln (talk) 15:14, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Wrong section. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 32#usage of Category:History of ... UW Dawgs (talk) 15:18, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Seems like over categorization to me. If people want all the teams for a season, they would go to Category:2016–17 NBA season first, not some cryptically named Category:NBA seasons by team. "By" usually refers to a subset sorted by a characteristic, like NBA players by college, NBA players by race. A team is a part of an NBA season, but not a characteristic of the season itself. It would be like saying "United States by fast-food chain". Fast-food chains are in the US, but the US cannot be sorted by fast food chains. If this is really needed, rename to a more intuitive 2016–17 NBA team seasons, but it doesn't need another parent category like "NBA seasons by team".—Bagumba (talk) 04:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Category:2016 National Football League season by team and Category:2016–17 NHL season by team support this, while Category:2017 Major League Baseball season, Category:2016 Major League Soccer season, Category:2016 NCAA Division I FBS football season, and Category:2016–17 NCAA Division I men's basketball season do not. UW Dawgs (talk) 05:28, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

In that case, WP:OSE can't really be argued. Just seems like copycat overcategorization.—Bagumba (talk) 17:39, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

NBA Finals vandalism

Regardless of what one would think, it seems almost likely the matchup will happen, third straight time. And because of that, I've seen increased vandalism that makes one want to protect the page, like listing the East coach (Cleveland) as that guy Iverson stepped over (I'm not kidding either, go to the history).

But seriously, this needs to stop. We should do something about it. Z.I. Barbour (talk) 03:35, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I've semi-protected for 2 weeks.—Bagumba (talk) 04:20, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Linking to general manager (basketball)

What do people think about linking "general manager" to general manager (basketball) in the lead and infobox of general manager bios? A specific basketball article about general managers exists and is presumably notable, and this seems on par with how every head coach bio links to head coach. Sabbatino recently reverted with edit summary of "There's no need to link it, because everyone knows what a general manager is". That might be true for fans, but articles are written for non-fans alike to learn as well.—Bagumba (talk) 14:57, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Since the article exists and is specific to basketball, I think articles should link to it. We link to basketball positions in articles. This follows the same logic to me. — X96lee15 (talk) 18:30, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

MOS:INFOBOX is silent, in a quick glance. Suggest we focus on linking the term in the 30 people articles seen within Template:NBAgeneralmanagers as a first step. It doesn't immediately strike me as particularly helpful in text articles (Boston Celtics) that we don't display "general manager: Danny Ainge" in the infobox. Conversely, the term in the lead and infobox of Danny Ainge is currently unlinked, where it would seem very contextual and helpful. And certainly adding links within one article type doesn't preclude the other. UW Dawgs (talk) 01:59, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

First of all, the general manager (basketball) page (this also applies to American football's and baseball's respective articles of the same position) should be merged to general manager since all articles have very few sources sources in total and there is not much of a difference between all general managers as they basically do the same thing. On a different note, if we link general manager and head coach then we should also link assistant coach, CEO, president of basketball operations and so on. There is nothing helpful in linking to that page. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:16, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. The General manager (basketball) article is now tagged accordingly. UW Dawgs (talk) 11:07, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Aside from having the same name, a general manager (in the NBA for sure) has very little common with the generic general manager in the corporate world. Procedurally, I'm also removing the tag as no discussion with proposal was started. Feel free to re-initiate and start a discussion if you believe it still applies.—Bagumba (talk) 15:40, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

CEO is a general enough term that it would be overlinking, and is not really sports specific. Coach, assistant or not, is also a general enough English word. There is not even an article for president of basketball operations, not that there shouldn't be, but I'm ambivalent if people want to make red links.—Bagumba (talk) 13:28, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Is a basketball GM substantially different from any other sport's GM though? I think something like "General manager (Sports)" might make sense, but a different article for each sport seems kind of silly. Rikster2 (talk) 17:33, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

I'd be OK with a general sports GM article. At any rate, that seems independent of why general manager shouldn't be linked, and WP:SPECIFICLINK applies as long as a more specific article exists.—Bagumba (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Golden State

I noticed that you don't have a Golden State task force. Looking at the types of teams your existing task forces focus on, I thought maybe this would be one that would be a good addition. I'm not a basketball person, btw. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Team task forces usually don't have much participation. Just discuss it here.—Bagumba (talk) 13:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Royce White NBL Canada MVP details

It is my understanding that Royce White has become the NBL Canada MVP. I can't find the official press release to see how close the vote was and who the other contenders were. If you can help me, drop a note at Talk:Royce_White#Royce_White_NBL_Canada_MVP_detail.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)