Template talk:Infobox currency sign

To do

Double width form

Yen sign , Won sign and other east asian symbols exist in Halfwidth and fullwidth forms 'narrow' (for use with 'western' texts) and 'wide' (for 'eastern' texts) forms. Wiktionary has achieved this. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

"Variant1" might solve this but it would need a "Unicode1" adding. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:49, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

For example, FULLWIDTH POUND SIGN is ￡ , unicode u=FFE1. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I really don't think the variant width form is important enough to include. Those codes are strictly for back-compatibility with old character sets that had two versions.Spitzak (talk) 19:47, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done by DePiep a different way, see yen sign. Thank you again. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 01:27, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe we could add parameter "graphical variants"? -DePiep (talk) 15:33, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Double uses

Yen sign and Yuan sign use the same glyph. Does this have to be acknowledged? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done by DePiep. Thank you. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 01:23, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Cifrao

The Cifrão doesn't have a unicode code point. The consortium decided that it was just a double barred dollar sign = font choice. So on wikipedia we have an svg for it so I have no idea how to fit it into this template. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I have just updated shekel sign with an svg for the old shekel, so this may be solvable. Tomorrow! --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 01:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Because the Cifrão symbol (two-line dollar symbol) and the one-line dollar symbol are allographs and we have an svg file rather than a unique glyph, I don't believe that the infobox can do this. In any case, I don't believe it should, for reasons explained at dollar. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:09, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I have added the infobox to Cifrão (not having read this post). Looks like it works fine with the image (not a character then). In this case, I thik it is *not* an allograph in this case, becasue it is defined (by the authorities) to have two bars. So one cannot use a $-sign for this, becasue fonts may use single bar (=OK for US$). -DePiep (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

See also

template:infobox punctuation mark (which is the basis for this template) has added a "see also" function, which this one needs (eg for the pound/lira, new shekel/old shekel). I will delay copying while redevelopment is ongoing. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Also  Done by DePiep, thank you again. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 01:24, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Boldly: Live now

I have put this Infobox live at Pound sign. Worth it (see the parameters available). Improvements will be tried & tested by {{Infobox currency sign/sandbox}}. -DePiep (talk) 22:12, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

@DePiep:Thank you!

I wanted to test putting FULLWIDTH POUND SIGN in as a variant but you seem to have removed that function? It is definitely needed for Yen and Won as a minimum.--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

yes. main improvements first. -DePiep (talk) 23:46, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Impatient, moi? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:56, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Good work all round. I had often thought it wrong that currency signs were being considered punctuation. I think that "html" should be a separate parameter from "unicode", with its own heading (immediately underneath "In Unicode") "In HTML", reducing clutter and make the entities clearer, especially if Template:plainlist is used to list them. I know this is a work-in-progress: is there an intention to also produce an equivalent of Template:Sidebar_punctuation_marks? I find it useful to have a list of related symbols close to hand on such pages. Bazza (talk) 11:42, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree HTML is cluttering as it is, but by definition it is the same character (Unicode character) that is identified. So I prefer keeping it with Unicode. BTW, the HTML value is the decimal value of the hexadecimal Unicode ID (a calculation). Pound sign: 00A3_hexadecimal = 163_decimal.

What do others say? -DePiep (talk) 12:34, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your well-meaning info. I worked on IT systems for decades, so know the techy bit. One of my favourite occupations was ensuring technical information was clear and understandable; hence my thanks above. Bazza (talk) 17:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I mainly mentioned the calcualation not to lecture you ;-), but to point outtthat it is the same identifier. -DePiep (talk) 20:12, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree, keep the html. As clutter goes, it is trivial. The terrible idea to create a sidebar is clutter to Nth degree, that was the last straw that led to creation of this template and articles are much more legible as a result because images etc can go thumb|right. We aalready a navbar for that, tucked away where it should be, at the bottom of all the current 'sign' articles: I can't think of any good reason to wp:FORK it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:15, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Personal preferences, then. I seldom make it past all the other stuff to the bottom of the page; and often just read the lede. I don't believe that WP navbars are for simply navigating. On other WP pages, they've taken me to pages I didn't know about. There's room in this currency infobox for a simple string of currency characters (the same list that was misplaced in the punctuation sidebar. (The HTML listing is not clearly presented, mainly due to the parentheses and bullet(s).) Bazza (talk) 17:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, personal preferences but remember wp:Readers first, very few visitors do (or want to do) what you do. Template:Currency symbols lays it out nicely with clear spacing and judicious white space: cramming them into a little box is impenetrable. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:51, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Not sure how you know your first assertion. Regardless, I can't see what's impenetrable about the list of currency signs which used to be in the punctuation list, and it's more reader-friendly than the curious category link at the bottom of the new box. Bazza (talk) 22:13, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

re Bazza 7. Your personal experiences browsing Wikipedia are great, of course — ending up in unexpected articles is funny in an encyclopedia always I know. However, the general page design (article layout & presentation) has some principles with benefits. A small Sidebar for topic overview is great. Good examples, IMO: artices Isotope and Hinduism have great Sidebars, both showing the overview. But in this case, the Sidebar does not give overview, it gives details. That is not good in top of an article, taking top lede space.

Nothing wrong with only reading & clicking the lede as you do, but wiki's page design says: topic navigation (unexpected articles you arrive at are related to the current page!) should be in bottom, as Categories are for same reason. Wikipedia wants to distinguish between infobox info (about the article) and navigation (about the article's topic). This way, maybe unknowingly, Readers have a good sense of what is where. We should not cram everything interesting in an Infobox, there is no "everything is important & relevant & interesting" solution.

This is why we prefer separating navigation and infobox. HTH. -DePiep (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Say 'sign' not 'symbol'

For the currency think, the word "sign" and "symbol" is used (on this wiki). I prefer to have one only, and that one being "sign". So: use "currency sign".

Interestingly, in Unicode names it says "lira sign" etc., but its block name is "currency symbols". That is because for Unicode, everything not a script character (A, γ) is a symbol. But within currency talk, we can be more specific. -DePiep (talk) 20:19, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support, per wp:common name, all the existing articles (pound sign, dollar sign, euro sign, yen sign etc use that style). It will mean an RTM Template:Currency symbols over Template:Currency signs [reversing the redirection] but I doubt that there will be any significant objections. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:51, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Unexplained error condition

(This section described two technical problems visible only on mobile. Both have been fixed). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:21, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

add new line: ISO 4217 code?

I suggest that it would be useful to have a line giving the ISO 4217 for the currency. I would be bold and just do it but the code for this infobox lacks any inline documentation to explain how it works. I haven't gotten past the first semester of Templates 101. :-D

Comments? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:21, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Can't it be added to |currency= (suggest standard formatting in doc; show unedited). No changes to IB then, or add the "ISO" link to LH label.

To note: Multiple currencies may apply (eg $); ISO 4217 name might differ (& so be written with it). Would the ISO code need a link, different from currency? -DePiep (talk) 12:02, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Arghhh yes, dollar sign kills the idea dead. Fogeddaboudit! I'll get my coat... --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:05, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

In general: this IB is about the sign, not the currency. So: one currency link should do (ie, the |currency=[[euro]]). In the SIX company source link, the ISO 4217 definition does not hold any sign (just names & ABC-codes). So: the sign itself is not connected to the ISO-currency (-code, -definition). I'd prefer to not overload thios IB with currency/not-the-sign stuff. Of course, {{Infobox currency}} and {{Currency}} should cover all this. -DePiep (talk) 12:14, 11 February 2022 (UTC)