Template talk:Infobox legislation/2014-2015

Request for Addition to Template: Committee Report between 2nd and 3rd Reading

I would like to propose an addition to the template, but since I don't know how to edit templates, I wonder if someone else who is skilled in this area could do it?

In most parliaments modelled on the British parliament, there is a stage in-between second reading and third reading, and that is the committee stage. In committee, the bill is considered in detail. Significantly, there can be amendments at the committee stage. Once the committee has finished its consideration of the bill, it returns to the chamber in the form of a report by the committee, indicating whether there have been any amendments.

I would suggest the addition of a parameter for "Committee Report" in-between 2nd reading and 3rd reading, for both of the chambers. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

There is already the parameter |committee_report= for providing a link to an online copy of committee report. Are you saying we need one for each chamber as there may be more than one committee report? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 09:48, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

That's correct. From its location in the template, I believe that the existing committee report parameter refers to the report of a conference committee, which is used in some jurisdictions, notably the US Congress, to resolve a dispute between the two Houses, but that's after the bill has been through both houses, and is the final stage in the legislative process. What I'm referring to is the committee stage in each chamber, where the bill is reviewed in detail, line-by-line. That is an integral part of the legislative process, and in a bicameral legislature, will occur twice, once in each house, between second and third reading. See the web-page of the UK Parliament: House of Commons - Committee stage and House of Lords: Committee stage Using the existing parameter for two dates would be confusing. Even in the case of a unicameral legislature, it would look odd to use the existing parameter, because it would display in the infobox after third reading, correct? but it would show a date before the date for third reading. Note as well that in the links to the British Parliament, it shows that Committee is actually a different stage from the Report stage, where the Committee's report is considered by the full chamber, and amendments can be made, before the bill goes to third reading. That suggests the need for two new parameters, for each chamber: committee, and report. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 11:31, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

And a follow-up point: according to the web-page for the Library of Congress, the committee stage in each house is: "Perhaps the most important phase of the legislative process." That's a different stage from the conference committee which is mentioned in the template. It appears that in the Representatives, bills go straight to committee after formal introduction, rather than after second reading, as is the practice in legislature which follow Westminster practices. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:23, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Just re-raising this issue. I don't have the technical skills to edit the template, but I believe that the template is currently incomplete because it does not include the committee stage between second and third reading which is extremely common in parliamentary systems, as noted above. If a new field could be added for committees, between second and third readings for each chamber, it would be greatly appreciated. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 11:58, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, @Mr Serjeant Buzfuz:. Finally got a chance to look at this template. I think the issue has already been dealt with by another editor. If not, please leave another message here. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 14:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Request for Addition to Template:Date Effective

I would like to request that a 'date_effective' parameter be added. Thank you. Drdpw (talk) 02:51, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Is there any indication that this is the correct legal term? I just had a look at the article "Effective date" and it is a stub which does not show that this is a legal term used to signify the commencement date of legislation. On the other hand, "Coming into force" (or commencement) is clearly a legal term. — SMUconlaw (talk) 11:25, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I have posed the "effective date vs. "coming into force" question at Talk:Effective date. My understanding of the difference (and I'm neither a lawyer nor legal scholar) is that one (coming into force) is a process taking place over a period of time, and the other (effective date) is a moment in time. In other words, A piece of legislation completes the process of coming into force on its effective date, or, the legislation passed into law on "X" date and becomes (or became) effective (goes/went into effect) on "Y" (date). Is that an accurate distinction? Another question (and please forgive me if I'm just splitting hairs), would 'effective' be an appropriate word to include in the template in addition to (or in place of) 'commencement'? I've not heard or read of a law commencing or being commenced, but I have effective or going/went into effect used. Drdpw (talk) 15:11, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's not true. A piece of legislation (or a part of it) only "comes into force" or "commences" on a specific date and not over a period of time. In any case, even if you find the term "comes into force" somewhat confusing, the term does not appear in the template at all. The template states "date commenced" which I think is absolutely clear. Since there is presently no indication that "effective date" is a correct legal term in relation to laws, I do not think it is appropriate to use it in the template. — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

No indication?

• Black's Law Dictionary: Documented date when something is due, like a report or results, or when something is applicable or in effect, like a law, or a restriction, or a sale price.
• Webster's New World Law Dictionary: The date as of which a contract or other instrument, or a law, enters into force.
• State of Oregon law: The date a law takes effect. Usually it is January 1 of the year after the bill passed. (Oregon State Legislature)

The date and hour on which a policy or endorsement becomes effective; the inception date of the protection afforded by a policy contract. (Internal Revenue Service)

• Effective Date Law & Legal Definition: According to 18 CFR 35.2, (Title 18 -- Conservation Of Power And Water Resources; Chapter I - Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, Department Of Energy; Subchapter B - Regulations Under The Federal Power Act; Part 35 - Filing Of Rate Schedules And Tariffs; Subpart A – Application), the effective date of a rate schedule, tariff or service agreement shall mean “the date on which a rate schedule, tariff or service agreement filed and posted pursuant to the requirements of this part is permitted by the Commission to become effective as a filed rate schedule, tariff or service agreement. The effective date shall be 60 days after the filing date, or such other date as may be specified by the Commission.”

Yes, in your legal system the term "date commenced" may be absolutely clear. However, that legal term is not one used here in the United States. Here, The legal term used to describe the date as of which a contract or other instrument, or a law, enters into force is is "effective date". As you can see above, there is in fact every indication that "effective date" is a correct legal term in relation to laws. Since this is the case, and because this template needs to represent a worldwide view of the subject, I ask again that "effective date" ("effective" or "date effective" would work as well) be included in the template. Thank you. Drdpw (talk) 19:39, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for providing some evidence. Let's see if anyone else would like to comment on the issue as well. — SMUconlaw (talk) 03:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I have no problem with adding date_effective as an alternative to date_commenced. Frietjes (talk) 14:09, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I see that no one has addressed this issue yet. OK, I've added the |date_effective= parameter. @Drdpw:, please note. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 14:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)