Template talk:Largest Israeli cities

Jerusalem not all

Well, only West-Jerusalem (nicey defined it is), is Israel. The rest is not Israel. So: it is not correct to claim that "Jerusalem Israeli city" has 500.000+ inhabitants. As for the Israel city, that is perfectly defined: "West-Jerusasem", about 200.000. Claiming non-Israel area (inhabitants) would be politicts. -DePiep (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, you're clearly obsessed with this subject, and I think we all know why. I won't bother anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.117.113.141 (talk) 05:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppets talking

:East Jerusalem was annexed to Israel and it's part of the same municipality (or do you think Nir Barkat is just the "West" Jerusalem Mayor?).--Jabotito48 (talk) 20:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC) Why ask my opinion? Why should I be a source? Even US has its embassy in Tel Aviv. Israel is limited to West-Jerusalem. Oh and by the way, I have "annexed to" myself your bathroom. -DePiep (talk) 23:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC) Who governs "East" Jerusalem? Who charges taxes, enforces the law, controls the place and builds there? Jordan, Palestinian Authority, US embassy? No, Israel does. It's Israel's capital and part of the same municipality. There is no "divided" city. The current international status is another problem, but Jerusalem is a unified Israeli city (there is not even a physical separation between East and West, Jews and Arabs live in both sides while freely pass, etc). It's a matter of facts, not political opinions: Jerusalem is a unified Israeli city.--Jabotito48 (talk) 23:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC) Only West-Jerusalem is Israel. As they say: Israel occupies. -DePiep (talk) 00:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC) "Occupies" is just your personal opinion. Jerusalem is not under a military occupation (like many parts in the West Bank), but is under Israeli civil law and is part of the same municipality.--Jabotito48 (talk) 00:51, 21 May 2012 (UTC) "Jerusalem" is not Israel. Only West-Jerusalem is. The rest is occupied, and its occupation is not recognised by any state. I maintain: in this template, "Jerusalem"=~200.000. -DePiep (talk) 00:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC) I reverted their edits [1]. -DePiep (talk) 02:03, 13 June 2012 (UTC) New User:8HGasma is reverting without talking, aka edit-warring. [2] [3]. I wrote on their page [4]. -DePiep (talk) 13:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC) You started this nonsense.--8HGasma (talk) 20:26, 17 June 2012 (UTC) I'm hoping you will all just stop reverting each other and work it out here without the need for blocks or page protection. I recommend not doing any more reverts, and instead reach a consensus here before making more changes. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 22:46, 17 June 2012 (UTC) The controversial status of East Jerusalem should be discussed here. But the fact is that Jerusalem is for the moment a unified city governed by Israel whose population is superior to 500,000. This is not just my personal opinion and an encyclopedia should not subscribe any ideological position at the expense of truth.--8HGasma (talk) 00:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC) I've read a lot and made a correction, I would like to be kept informed of similar issues elsewhere. Penyulap ☏ 04:13, 18 Jun 2012 (UTC) Except by Israel itself, nowhere is sourced that the whole of Jerusalem is in Israel. Not in Israel, so it is not an Israeli city. -DePiep (talk) 11:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC) Look like I am only talking to sockpuppets here [5]. Funny, somehow. Deletable too. -DePiep (talk) 22:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 29 November 2012

79.108.250.119 (talk) 08:13, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.

move page

The page should be moved to Largest cities of Israel as per rest of the world standard. --Shuki (talk) 00:43, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Jerusalem

(moved to bottom of page) -DePiep (talk) 16:58, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I would like to note the following facts:

1. Jerusalem in its entirety was not included in the Jewish State in the UN decision on the division of Palestine.
2. Accordingly, Jerusalem in its entirety to this date is not recognized by the United States as part of Israel.
3. The same is of course true about many other countries that do not recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel.
4. Jerusalem is controlled by Israel. The police in all of jerusalem (east and west, except on the outskirts outside the wall) is the Israel police. The law that governs in all of Jerusalem is the law of the state of Israel.
5. The arabs living in east Jerusalem operate under the Israel law, including the reception of social security payments and health care. Thousands of arabs who are living in East Jerusalem have become Israeli citizens based on their residence in east Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is not the only city which is disputed. There are many other cities in the world, which are under dispute. Jerusalem should be handled in the same way these are handled. עדירל (talk) 15:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC) (Adiral)

I note, for example, Template:Largest cities of Moldova, which lists the disputed city Tiraspol. עדירל (talk) 15:39, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

List of Israeli cities lists "cities in Israel, the Golan Heights, and Israeli-administered cities in the West Bank", this template should follow suit. By that standard Jerusalem should be included. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

No, the other way around. The list is wrong. Cities that are not in Israel are not Israeli cities.

That would depend on what "Israeli cities" means in context. For example is Ariel an Israeli or Palestinian city? That depends on what you mean by "Israeli city" and "Palestinian city". That the list includes cities outside of internationally registered Israel is the reason that it's titled "List of Israeli cities" instead of "List of cities in Israel". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 12:03, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

No context needed. Moskou is not an Israeli city. Ariel is not an Israeli city. -DePiep (talk) 13:19, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

So Ariel is a Palestinian city then, I really think that whether or not that were true would depend on the context. The long standing conciseness is that Golan Heights, and Israeli-administered west bank cities are Israeli cities. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:14, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

We don't need to know what kind city Ariel is. We already know it is not Israeli, so it should not be in any such list. There is nothing more to it. -DePiep (talk) 14:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Is there any reason for this template to differ from List of Israeli cities in what it defines as "Israeli cities", to differ from the "parent" page would be confusing. I should note that other then Jerusalem there are no Israeli-admin. West Bank cities with a 50,000+ population. 14:28, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

re Is there any reason ...: yes there is. The factual reason is that "Jerusalem" is not Israeli. Whatever your internal WP-link says (that is called WP:OR). -DePiep (talk) 19:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

That's not a reason to treat this template differently then it's parent, List of Israeli cities. Get Jerusalem removed from the main article and the template should follow suet. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 19:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

What parent you keep mentioning? The template stands on its own. Of course we at WP cannot decide otherwise. Jee: OR I said. -DePiep (talk) 19:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Israeli cities is that parent. Get Jerusalem replaced by "Jerusalem (West)" or West Jerusalem, and get it's population figure changed to match the "200,000 – 499,999" here and this template can follow the parent article's suet. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:06, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

This template is self-standing. There is no parent directing us (I think you got my point but you decided to play dumb). Let me be clear: no Wikipedia article or page can decide what Jerusalem (or Moskov or Ariel) is. We only use sources. -DePiep (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that your arguments are so week that you feel it necessary to assume bad faith and accuse people of having "decided to play dumb" to win the debate. Please be civil and no personal attacks. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Also Ariel (city) calls it a "Israeli settlement" and "Municipality of Israel". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Nice try. Can you give the last diff you tried reasoning? -DePiep (talk) 20:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

So now I'm not reasoning, what did I just tell you about personal attacks? The main page for figuring out what would constitute "Israeli cities" is List of Israeli cities and unless there is some reason for this template to differ WP:LOCALCONSENSUS here can not override that. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes (minor point): I said like you are smart, but .... You took it as an insult. Your choice. -DePiep (talk) 21:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

rv please

Can someone, Could be Migeo, revert Migeo‎, who twice edited without talk. -DePiep (talk) 14:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Jerusalem

The city of Jerusalem, including both East Jerusalem and West Jerusalem is administered by the Israeli government. East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel in 1980 and is currently disputed between Israel and the State of Palestine. Therefore, I propose changing the status of Jerusalem in this Template:Largest Israeli cities from "Jerusalem (West)" as it is currently listed to a status which can describe the current situation of Israeli cities more adequately, (East Jerusalem is disputed between Israel and Palestine). I also propose adding the city of Modiin Illit to this template, as it is a city administered by Israel yet located in the West Bank. I have already made this edit several times, however it has been reverted several times by User:DiePiep who has asked for a discussion. Therefore I am asking for permission to make these changes so that this template can more accurately reflect the largest Israeli cities and the disputes which exist between Israel and Palestine in the case of Jerusalem and Modiin Illit, both which have more than 50,000 Israeli citizens living within them. Zbase4 (talk) 22:54, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

"Administered" does not make it Israeli.

"Annexed" does not make it Israeli.

"is disputed" does not make it Israeli (Right now, I am 'disputing' my neighbours garden, see?)

"more adequately" - no, Jerusalem is occupied. It is not Israeli. One could propose adding to the template: "... while occupied Jerusalem has 200.000+ inhabitants". That could be an Adequate proposal.

add "Modiin Illit to this template, as it is a city administered by Israel yet located in the West Bank." ??? Occupied.

"I propose changing" - denied. Your/Israel's position is POV. -DePiep (talk) 22:23, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

I ran into this template today and was shocked to find it was politicized, selective and internally inconsistent. Reading through this page it looks like someone took ownership over the article, doesn't listen to arguments, and engages in edit warring. These are my preliminary conclusions. I'm in the process of including all Israeli cities, as politics was not nearly the only problem. There can be a note next to Israeli cities that can also be considered non-Israeli or partially non-Israeli by a different standard but it is totally unreasonable and unacceptable that matters will be decided by edit warring and frequent reversals instead of discussion. gidonb (talk) 00:38, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

• Please add {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice}} as an WP:EDITNOTICE to this template.

Per WP:ARBPIA (especially this motion): "... any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict".

(I tried to make this edit myself, following the #Howto, but that ended up with a non-functioning page; to me WP:EDITNOTICE is incomprehensible).

-DePiep (talk) 09:26, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

• Answered by moving the problematic notice page [6]. -DePiep (talk) 12:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Please change

Tiberia to Tiberias. Tiberia is not a city. --2604:2000:E010:1100:68A0:D758:F52B:2D8B (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2020 (UTC)