Template talk:Manhattan streets

Google maps

I'm not that familiar with Harlem, Washington Heights, and Inwood, but according to Google Maps these streets appear to be 2-way, which I've added: West 207, Dyckman, West 181, West 165, West 155, West 145, 135 Streets. Also, I've added Route 1/Route 95. I didn't add Route 9 since it splits off at Broadway. Additionally, these streets appear to be 2-way, but I haven't added pending further confirmation (they aren't highlighted on Google Maps): Academy, West 204, Isham, West 213, West 214, West 218 Streets. Wl219 05:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes to all except 214th and 213th Doodle77 23:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

old version preserved

NE2 did a complete reorganization of the template, but I think it looks a bit cluttered with too many abbreviations. I'm preserving the old version here:

Wl219 07:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

(100ft )?

What is this after all the street names? It is not explained and very messy. --Knulclunk 15:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

That's the width of the street. Most streets are only 60 feet wide. --NE2 18:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't that information be on the street's article itself? --Knulclunk 20:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Template for other Manhattan Streets

I see this template applied to articles to which it does not link to it (e.g., 53rd Street (Manhattan)). That's a wiki no no. Ideally every street in Manhattan should have an article (particularly the midtown streets). Does anybody have any suggestions on a master template for this (e.g., "Numbered East West Streets in Manhattan" or "Numbered East West Streets from 1st to 59th Streets in Manhattan" --59th to 110, Above 110th). Americasroof 07:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

spacing on template

The only problem with the longer entires, 6^th Av/Av of the Americas/Lenox Av/Malcolm X Blvd; Lenox and Malcolm X are outside the template box and cut off by the browser. This happens with most of the longer entries. --Knulclunk 13:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

When does this happen? What browser are you using and how wide is your screen? On Safari I can make the window extremely narrow and the spacing behavior works correctly... Any info regarding this would be helpful to fix bugs in the code... Paul^C/_T+ 20:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

It happens in Firefox on both Mac and PC. The text will not wrap around if there are not spaces between the links in the template box. --Knulclunk 02:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... that is odd. It seems that the "/"s mess with the outer box of the template on Firefox. The browser doesn't know that these lines don't break. I'm going to try and use pipes {{!}} instead and see if that helps... Paul^C/_T+ 16:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, it took a few revisions, but I finally got something that renders correctly in Firefox without allowing wraps between names that share streets. The {{nowrap begin}} templates come in quite handy again... The code is slightly messier, but it works. Be sure to use {{·wrap}} instead of {{·}} for future additions. Thanks for pointing out the bug. Let me know if you see any more issues and I'll try to fix them. Paul^C/_T+ 16:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks great! It's a shame about all those wrap codes, but it displays great here! Thank you!--Knulclunk 03:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

cross streets

We needed to change the template to separate the cross streets into upper, mid and downtown as well. We can change the 14th-59th midtown designation. It just seemed like a good place to start.--Knulclunk 15:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

template size

This template has grown so large, it looks silly on the shorter articles and stubs. Does anyone know how to make a "hidden" version, so when a user comes to the page, the template is collapsed by default? Do we want it ALWAYS to be collapsed? Or can we build the template to be shown or hidden on a page by page basis? --Knulclunk (talk) 03:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Psantora! --Knulclunk 13:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

At the very least it should be broken into two parts. This template is way, way, way too big. Americasroof (talk) 16:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

What 2 parts are you suggesting? Epicgenius^{(talk to me • see my contributions)} 13:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Midtown vs. UWS

A number of named Avenues are listed as being in Midtown but they are on the Upper West Side, but UWS is not Midtown. (Amsterdam, Columbus, Central Park West, Riverside, West End Ave) 71.190.77.101 (talk) 23:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Bowery-Park Row and other street name changes

Previously, Bowery was listed under Pearl Street. I moved it to its own place on the list, and combined it with Park Row, since Park Row is a renamed section of Bowery. As Beyond My Ken points out in an edit summary, Bowery and Park Row are different. How should we list streets that are continuations of each other? Right now, Park and Fourth are listed together, as are Tenth and Amsterdam Aves, but there may be other opinions on the clearest way to list things. What should be the criteria for combinations? Fitnr 20:18, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

This should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. For some streets - such as, say Gramercy Park South, a 1/2 block interruption of East 20th Street, or Union Square East, a three block connector between Park Avenue South and Fourth Avenue - it would be ridiculous to have a separate listing, or even any listing at all, really. On the other hand, Park Avenue, Park Avenue South and Fourth Avenue are all the same street historically, sections were just renamed by the request of merchants and land speculators. Combining Amsterdam with 10th Avenue, Columbus with 9th and West End Avenue with 11th makes sense for the same reason: these truly are the same streets, with parts renamed.

Downtown, below the 1811 Grid, things are somewhat different. As the city grew north some streets were extended, and ran into existing streets that already had names. Other streets got straightened out and now look as if they are continuations of other streets, but have pre-existing and separate histories. We need to be cognizant of this information, and be judicious in our assumptions. Just because two streets looks as if one is a continuation of the other doesn't make it so, and we shouldn't be in the position of making declarations about things which aren't supported by reliable sources.

There's also the matter of subsequent histories after renaming. Park Row may have started its like as part of the Bowery (or vice versa - I'm not familiar enough with the history to say), but it's certainly disconnected from it now, and Park Row has an entirely different character and history then does the Bowery. I can't see any real reason, except the accident of history, for these two to be listed together.

In short, this isn't something you can make simple rules about, it's got to be looked into, evaluated, supported by sources, and discussed if necessary. One cannot go into this template with the idea that all streets that are connected are going to be combined - that's just not going to work. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:33, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Comment – Bowery is an extension of Third Avenue as well, in that sense. I don't see why the Bowery should be going by itself (it should go next to Park Row as it's just a direct continuation of Park Row. It is in no way connected to Pearl Street. By contrast, the Bowery and Park Row run straight through to each other via Chatham Square). Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 03:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

The Bowery existed before Third Avenue, which is an invention of the Commissioner's Plan. Really, Epicgenius, you should do some research and understand what's going on before you express an opinion, otherwise you look like a fool, just as you did on the "Bowery" vs. "The Bowery" discussion. I thought you had turned over a new leaf? Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did turn over a new leaf. Traffic goes through between the Bowery and Third Avenue via Cooper Square; traffic doesn't turn at the intersection to get from the Bowery to Third Avenue. In other words, it is possible to go up from Chatham Square to Third Avenue/128th Street without ever making a single turn. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 16:05, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Additionally, Park Row is part of the Bowery – Cooper Square – Third Avenue super street. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 16:07, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken is correct, Bowery and Third Avenue have always been different streets. Bowery used to continue to north from Cooper Square, that section was renamed Fourth Avenue. Here's a nice painting of the intersection of Bowery and Broadway in 1828. I don't think that the fact that you can generally drive in a straight line is a good metric for judging streetness. A look at the streets around Bleecker Square will show that you can't drive between the two parts of Hudson, but that doesn't make Hudson less of a street. Fitnr 19:43, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

@Fitnr: Wait a second... if the Bowery is part of Fourth Avenue, then why aren't both streets two-way streets? Only Third Avenue/Bowery is a two-way street. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 21:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Direction of traffic is not an inherent characteristic, it can be changed. Fifth Avenue was two-way in my lifetime. And Third Avenue is only two-way up to 24th Street. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

FIfth Avenue was two-way in your lifetime...? You must be older than I am, then (I wasn't even there when the New York City Subway was last extended to new stops). But that's another story, as the streets (in the vicinity of Cooper Square) flow into each other subtly. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 00:38, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Epicgenius, I am most assuredly much, much older than you are. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken, I think that the basic rule you're proposing is that gridded streets should be combined when they're in a straight line together, but pre-1811 streets should generally be listed apart, unless there's a strong historical or continuing connection. I agree with this. Looking at the map, the only change that I see under this rule is listing Lafayette Street apart from Broad / Nassau, since Lafayette has never had a strong connection to Nassau. Fitnr 19:43, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

In general, I think the entire history of the streets involved has to be taken into account as well as geometry.

Lafayette began life as a cul-de-sac, then was extended to what was then (IIRC) "Elm Placa". There's also the chatracter of the streets to consider. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:17, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

So, here's the list that I compiled.

• LIst of related streets:
  • Park Row
  • Chatham Square
  • The Bowery
  • Cooper Square
  • Fourth–Park Avenues
• Not related:
  • Water Street
  • Pearl Street
  • St James Place
  • Lafayette Street
  • Third Avenue

Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 19:41, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have no idea what this means? Are you advocating that these "related" streets be rolled together into one article, because that ain't gonna happen. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:19, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

No, I meant to put these streets into one row in the template. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 01:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I think that combining so many streets in the navbox would be confusing. Fitnr 16:58, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I believe I agree. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:12, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The Bowery is undoubtedly not connected to Pearl Street. It's Park Row that has an intersection with Pearl Street, and that intersection is off limits to unauthorised vehicles (i.e. vehicles that aren't government vehicles or New York City Buses). Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 01:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

West-Side Hwy / FDR Drive

I'm not sure the West Side Highway is best shown under "Lower West Side" (Tribeca). I suggest it should be the last entry in "Major avenues" (which should not be capitalized). It is also unclear to me why the FDR Drive is not listed at all; I suggest it should be the first entry in "Major avenues". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:22, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

It's listed as 12th Avenue. Somewhere between crossing 11th Avenue and leaving the numbered streets it becomes West Street, around W13th&10th?, I don't know. West Street is also listed and the link to the West Side Highway has to be somewhere. There's probably enough highways for a section to put everything with highway or expressway in the name. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:52, 2 January 2022 (UTC)