Template talk:Ohio County Courthouses

Name with Ohio only when needed for disambiguation

Adding "(Ohio)" for disambiguation after a county courthouse name is only appropriate when needed for disambiguation vs. other county courthouses in other states. There may be some new disambiguation pages needed though. Sorting, first those from the current list without "(Ohio)"

Ashtabula • Athens • Auglaize • Belmont • Clermont •Columbiana • Coshocton •Cuyahoga • Darke • Defiance •Gallia • Geauga •Guernsey •Hocking • Huron •Licking •Lorain •Mahoning •Muskingum •Pickaway •Preble •Ross • Sandusky •Scioto •Trumbull •Tuscarawas • Van Wert • Vinton •Wayne • Wyandot

Versus the following having "(Ohio)" in their article wikilinks:

Adams • Allen • Ashland • • Brown • Butler • Carroll • Champaign • Clark • Clinton • Crawford • Delaware • Erie • Fairfield • Fayette • Franklin • Fulton • Greene • Hamilton • Hancock • Hardin • Harrison • Henry • Highland • Holmes • Jackson • Jefferson • Knox • Lake • Lawrence • Logan • Lucas • Madison • Marion • Medina • Meigs • Mercer • Miami • Monroe • Montgomery • Morgan • Morrow • Noble • Ottawa • Paulding • Perry • Pike • Portage • • Putnam • Richland • Seneca • Shelby • Stark • Summit • Union • Warren • Washington • Williams • Wood

Now, repeating the last group but editing so there's no "(Ohio)", then these should point to disambiguation pages. Some may need to be created. But if there are redlinks here and no disambiguation is needed, then "(Ohio)" is not needed.

Adams • Allen • Ashland • Brown • Butler • Carroll • Champaign • Clark • Clinton • Crawford • Delaware • Erie • Fairfield • Fayette • Franklin • Fulton • Greene • Hamilton • Hancock • Hardin • Harrison • Henry • Highland • Holmes • Jackson • Jefferson • Knox • Lake • Lawrence • Logan • Lucas • Madison • Marion • Medina • Meigs • Mercer • Miami • Monroe • Montgomery • Morgan • Morrow • Noble • Ottawa • Paulding • Perry • Pike • Portage • Putnam • Richland • Seneca • Shelby • Stark • Summit • Union • Warren • Washington • Williams • Wood

Hmm, the current result is there are 30 red-links in the last list. Either disambig pages are needed, or the "(Ohio)" part of these courthouse names is not needed. I'll try creating some disambig pages now. doncram (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, created 23 disambig pages, for all those red-links that had any NRHPs of that name outside of Ohio. Leaves seven six, which i'll edit on the template to drop the "(Ohio)" as there are no other notable ones of the name (at least no NRHPs): Champaign, Clermont, Erie, Highland, Medina, Portage Williams. doncram (talk) 07:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

We need the disambiguation on the six that were changed: not because there are no other NRHP sites with that name, but because there are other counties nationwide that likely have courthouses. Look at Champaign County, Illinois, Erie County, Pennsylvania, Highland County, Virginia, Medina County, Texas, Portage County, Wisconsin, and Williams County, North Dakota — all six presumably have courthouses, so the six Ohio county courthouses need to have (Ohio) in their names. Nyttend (talk) 13:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Nyttend, your reasoning is incomplete. There is no evidence that those non-Ohio counties have courthouses of the given name and no evidence that such courthouses, if they exist, would be wikipedia notable. You're not appreciating that the NRHP ones are a different and rare exception, because they are known to have nomination documents available and otherwise are verifiably notable. Likewise, I am granting that the Ohio ones, even non-NRHP ones, are notable because there is some book about current Ohio courthouses and I am supporting you in your apparent wish to create an article about each one. In general, courthouses are not notable. If disambiguation pages were created that listed the non-NRHP ones, it most likely that disambiguation editors would visit and delete the red-links for them, likely citing the dictum that "wikipedia is not a directory" and pointing to wp:MOSDAB style guidelines for disambiguation. I know this from experience in dealing with deletionist dab editors over many dab pages involving NRHPs. If there isn't a disambiguation page "Williams County Courthouse" with two or more entries (which you could not defend from dab editors), then using "Williams County Courthouse" is the right name to use for the Ohio courthouse of that name when you create the article. It's not likely that a North Dakota wikipedian will ever create an article for a courthouse there. (Note, it's so unlikely that you are not allowed by MOS guidelines to set up disambiguation planning for it.) And if that happened, then disambiguation would happen naturally: the ND editor would move your Williams County Courthouse to "Williams County Courthouse (Ohio)" and create a disambiguation page. You don't have to make way, in advance, for disambiguation that is not likely to be needed, ever. doncram (talk) 15:16, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Courthouse photos available

FYI, see http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/Population/Photos/ for photos of many Ohio courthouses. These photos can be uploaded to commons with the right attribution and then used in wikipedia articles. They are in public domain as taken by a Federal employee (Calvin Beale) in the course of business and made available on a Federal government website. They're very good pics, too. doncram (talk) 15:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Current?

Why is the word current needed in the template (or any other state's courthouse template} when many are not the current county courthouses, having been replaced by newer buildings. Why not just delete this unnecessary word? clariosophic (talk) 12:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The point is to give the current courthouses, not former ones. Which ones have been replaced? Please fix them. Nyttend (talk) 12:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The point is most of them are on the NRHP and many have been replaced by so-called judicial complexes. No I'm not going to replace them, because I don't get your insistence on the template only being for the current ones. That does not make sense. Are the current ones notable, probably not. In the Florida county where I live the old courthouse is on the NRHP, the current one next door is a modern building and is not notable by any means. clariosophic (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I understand that's the case in many Florida counties, including the one in which I lived. (Um, the county, that is... not the courthouse. :-P ) But in Ohio, I'm not aware of any historic courthouses that aren't still used for at least some county departments, if not court hearings. Thus, despite being on the NRHP, they're still considered current county courthouses. -- JeffBillman (talk) 23:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The city of Findlay, Ohio in Hancock County has a NRHP courthouse that is still used, but also has a NRHP courthouse which is no longer used for judicial purposes. I had added the template to both, but with the wording saying only current, I removed the non-judicial one. I am confused about the current and current/former designation too. 69.129.145.181 (talk) 06:22, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Bwsmith84 has been creating articles on tons of current courthouses that aren't NRHP or anything like that, and they appear all to be sufficiently notable for articles. Nyttend (talk) 16:16, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• I've created a sandbox entry at User:JeffBillman/CountyCourthouses to incorporate both current and historic courthouses. Right now, the only historic courthouse (not also serving as a current courthouse) I can find is Cuyahoga's. Tell me what you think. -- JeffBillman (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Not a fan, because it doesn't look good to have a section with just one entry when the other section has 88 of them. This template was not made (and nor has it ever been intended) to be a navigational template for historic structures: it has always been intended for navigation between articles on the buildings currently used as courthouses. Nyttend (talk) 00:19, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Agree with your thoughts on a one entry section, which is the primary reason I haven't yet implemented it. If there are other such structures that no longer serve as county courthouses, though, it might be worthwhile. As it is, we could include current courthouses also listed in the NRHP, but that would be hopelessly redundant. By the way, I agree with your edit to Cuyahoga County on the current template. Because the template is presently (and solely) for current courthouses, that only makes sense. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:02, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but there is a problem. I understand that the creator of this template also created the same template for all the other states. I know for a fact that Florida will have more than one entry for historic courthouses. BTW, the Montgomery County Courthouse in Dayton is the old courthouse. Also Franklin County is building a new modern CH which will open next year.[1]clariosophic (talk) 02:24, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

"All the other states"? I created a similar template for Delaware and Rhode Island, but I don't remember creating one for any other states. Nyttend (talk) 04:15, 9 November 2009 (UTC)