Template talk:Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania

Proposed Edits in Center City

A number of these articles is this section of the template are arguably not a community or municipality or even a district:

• Centre Square is a building
• City Hall is a building
• Eakins Oval ia a traffic circle
• Elfreth's Alley is a street within old city
• Market East is a redirect for Market Street
• Naval Square is a gated community in SWCC or Graduate Hospital
• Penn Center is a real estate development
• Schuylkill Avenue is a street and or a neighborhood not in Center City
• South Street is a street
• French Quarter is another type of problem altogether

Arguments for removing these and others abound, but maybe another approach is to rethink the "community & municipality" language. Should it be neighborhoods and districts? Or is this just a free for all of "things located in center city or philadelphia?" Any thoughts before I jump in would be appreciated. PHILA19106 (talk) 05:16, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I strongly agree. Although I'll note some tweaks, I'd much rather see all of these changes made than none.

I could see continuing to treat South Street below, say, Seventh Street, as a neighborhood. It has a distinctive style and vibe.

I would drop Franklintown. It isn't a neighborhood; it's a (largely unsuccessful) former development project in the Logan Square neighborhood. Keep it as an article, for its historic significance, but drop it from this list of communities.

TypoBoy (talk) 14:51, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Amanda Baker at Philly.com in this article elevates a version of neighborhoods by Jon Kostesich. His map is here. If this map is not immediately objectionable, maybe we use the Kostesich map as a starting place for center city, and evaluate other districts and neighborhoods on a case by case basis (like Jewlers Row, Independence Mall, and South Street). Sound like a good approach?

Acknowledged fully that the Kostesich map lacks the detail to be as useful outside of center city. For example, University City is a blanket term applied to well-established and distinct areas in West Philly like Spruce Hill and Cedar Park. See the VisitPhilly Map which is also a good reference for center city.

Some sources, like real estate brokerages have unreliable maps, and some other sources look very detailed but have boundaries with no support that I can find -- this for example.

Finally, some of the problem in the template is that there are no designated spaces to differentiate between neighborhoods, public space (Franklin Square), and roads/streets (Eakins oval, south broad, Ben Franklin Parkway) etc. That's an issue for another day.

PHILA19106 (talk) 01:44, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Regarding my partial revert

First of all, boroughs, Districts, and Townships are municipalities, "municipality" is not synonymous with "incorporated city" Take {{Lebanon County, Pennsylvania}} for example: everything listed there (except the CDPs and Unincorporated communities) are municipalities.

Secondly this is not a standard county template because Philadelphia is not a standard county. Philadelphia is a consolidated city-county, and to the best of my knowledge I'm the one who pioneered the use of county templates for city-counties (and Virginia's consolidated cities), with some help from Zzyzx11. Most county templates for city-counties need the "City and County of" because the reader might not know that the county is a city-county, he might think that X County is something other then the City of X.

As for the county seat thing, I don't think it's obvious. The reader might just see that and be confused or think it's an error or something; he might not even know that it's possible for a county to be it's own county seat. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:17, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Edits made to Center City

Removed the following (from edit summaries):

• (remove Washington Square pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Schuylkill Avenue pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Penn Center pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Naval Square pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Museum District pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Market East pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Jewelers' Row pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Independence Mall pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove French Quarter pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Franklintown pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Elfreth's Alley pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove City Hall pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Centre Square pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Avenue of the Arts pursuant to talk page discussion about not including buildings and streets)
• (remove Eakins Oval pursuant to talk page discussion about

Given the comment about South Street, I left it in. I feel good that "neighborhoods" are covered, but I am less confident that we have a good, consistent, and universally applicable definition of "district." Certainly, no one would suggest that the Center City District or the South Street Head House District should be in this template, but three artivles might qualify here in addition to South Street: Jewelers' Row, Independence Mall and Avenue of the Arts.

Does anyone have a strong opinion?

PHILA19106 (talk) 21:35, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Is 30th Street Station a neighborhood?

I'm a fan of 30th Street Station, and I'm glad it has an article, but I don't see how it can be considered a neighborhood, and don't think it belongs in this list of Philadelphia neighborhoods. TypoBoy (talk) 01:51, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Nobody has responded. So I'll answer my own question: No, 30th Street Station is not a neighborhood. It is a building. Quite a grand one. I'll remove it from the list. TypoBoy (talk) 02:48, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

I see that the putative neighborhood is not 30th Street Station, but rather the 30th Street Station District. That's less clear-cut. I'll wait for people to react. TypoBoy (talk) 02:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Are "Industrial" and "Parkland" Philadelphia place names?

This template currently claims, falsely, that there are neighborhoods in Philadelphia named "Parkland" and "Industrial". These (non-)neighborhoods have their own articles. Each article cites Philly.com's "Data Hub", which divides the city into sections, and applies these two generic terms to parts to which no neighborhood name applies.

It's reasonable for the Data Hub to come up with names for these leftover tracts of land. It is not reasonable for Wikipedia to treat these identifiers as place names on a par with "Eastwick" or "Manayunk". These names, though useful in the data hub, do not belong in a list of Philadelphia neighborhoods, including this one.

I nominated Parkland, Philadelphia for speedy deletion, but another editor, galloping through, removed the tag because the article has references (albeit references that do not mention any place named "Parkland"). So I proposed it for slow deletion. Would anybody care to weigh in? TypoBoy (talk) 04:23, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

source and source, I believe this are relatively new subsections. But it is currently split this way. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 11:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I see the link is working now, and I acknowledge (once again) that the Philly.com Data Hub uses "Parkland" and "Industrial" as names of sections of Philadelphia. I continue to think that that's because the design of their site requires that every spot in the city be included in a region with a name, and not because anybody (including the Data Hub folks) considers each Data Hub region a discrete place. All the citations, in both articles, other than Data Hub, use "parkland" and "industrial" (if they use them at all) in their generic sense. (For example, the Temple boathouse was built on parkland, not "in Parkland".)

On the other hand, it's clear that I should have waited for this discussion to run its course before applying delete tags. It looks like only Valoem and I care either way. In that case, why should my opinion take precedence over his? (Especially since, though I question whether we should have these articles, I must say he did a good job on them.)

If anybody can find reliable sources that support the claim that these are Philadelphia place names, they should cite them; I'll do the same. I may edit citations that are used to support claims they don't actually support. An example is the "Navy Yard" link on the Industrial page; that doesn't say that the Navy Yard was in Industrial (and, in fact, during the named years, the Navy Yard was not in the place we're talking about).

But aside from that, I'll leave these pages alone and wait to see if anybody else wants to weigh in. I'll spend some time away from Wikipedia. This weekend, for instance, I'll be going to the Manny Flick regatta, which will be held in Parkland. TypoBoy (talk) 14:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)