Template talk:Precedence

Northern Ireland has had no legal flag of its own since 1972, the flag people are trying to use in this template was the flag of the Governor General a role that ceased in 1972, when the Northern Ireland House of Commons was shut down by Westminster, the flag is offensive to the Nationalist community in the north.--padraig3uk 07:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no basis for your claim- a flag does not need to be sanctioned by the government- the UK government has never sanctioned the flags of Wales, England or Scotland for example. Astrotrain 09:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, yes it does the Ulster Banner has about as much legal standing as the Irish tricolour - it should be removed from all page and replaced with a more neutral alternative.--Vintagekits 15:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

• Astrotrain, you have asked for clarification which we have provided - see here, so why do you keep reverting the page--Vintagekits 13:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• That is just an Order from the Secetary of State for NI to the NI Office- and it does not say the Union Flag is the legal flag of Northern Ireland- it merely states what days the UF should be flown from on buildings of the Northern Ireland Office in NI- funnily enough those same days the UF is flown in Great Britain from central government buildings. It only governs the offices of the NI Office- and is not binding on anyone else. The Ulster Banner as you call it is widely recognised as the flag of NI- and indeed appears in the infobox of the NI article here on Wikipedia, and all the other language versions. The Flag is used by other national bodies in NI as the national flag (football, Commonwealth Games...) It is POV to remove the flag from here, I suspect your pro-IRA/Irish Republican POV is to blame. Astrotrain 13:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk please

There is too much reverting and not enough talking going on over the NI flag on this template.

Unless people make some serious attempt to sort out the differences either people will get blocked for edit warring or the Wrong Version will get protected William M. Connolley 13:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The Ulster banner has no legal status in Northern Ireland, see the The Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 and The Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) 2002 under which

Prohibition on the flying of flags other than in accordance with the Regulations

9. Except as provided by these Regulations, no flag shall be flown at any government building at any time.

The only flag with legal status is the Union Flag under current legislation, the Ulster Banner has no more status then the Tricolour has under law. A compromise to this is to use the Flax banner used by the Northern Ireland Assembly or the Union Banner in all templates regarding Northern Ireland with exception given to the period 1922-72 for the Northern Ireland House of Commons and articles or templates relating to that or its elections.--padraig3uk 01:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Very few UK flags have status under law, and there is no requirement for a piece of legislation to determine what the Flag is. It is not illegal to fly the Flag of Northern Ireland. Astrotrain 12:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you want to use de facto use then the Irish tricolour is the de facto use for a large minority in the Occupied Six also - if you are going to use 1 flag that has no legal status then you may as well use two!--Vintagekits 16:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Astrotrain, it is not illegal to fly the tricolour either, so what is your point, and the flag in question is the Former flag of the Northern Ireland House of Commons - 1922-1972 not the flag of Northern Ireland as you claim.--padraig3uk 12:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The Flag is used by football association, Commonwealth Games etc- so cleary it is the Flag used to represent Northern Ireland. Astrotrain 14:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The use of the synbol or flag by the football association or any other sports body has nothing to do with this issue they can us any symbol they wish, nor does its use by them imply that it has any legal status.--padraig3uk 18:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Just like will be proven on the Northern Ireland page that is not the flag of Northern Ireland and will be removed from all pages claiming that it is!--Vintagekits 00:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Quit the political soapboxing and stick the Northern Ireland flag back into the template. Every other country or region has its own flag - not a shape representing the geographical outline. Stop being so petty and get on with some proper editing! --Mal 08:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats pure POV, its not the official flags and is rejected as the flag by many. The tricolour has as much de facto status as the Ulster Banner, either include both de facto flags or none.--Vintagekits 12:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You're still trying to make a political point - a point that disappeared when the Republic of Ireland changed its constitution. The flag of Northern Ireland is the Union Jack. The flag that is recognised as being its regional flag is the flag of Northern Ireland (oddly enough!). Let's not waste time on this kind of crap, and get on with editing Wikipedia while representing reality! --Mal 00:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The template in question is political, and whilst you are correct that the Union Banner is the only legaly recognised flag, the Ulster banner is not the recognised regional flag nor has it been since 1972. WP is supposed to deal in fact.--padraig3uk 11:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If it is political, then the last official political flag of Northern Ireland should be the one that is used to identify Northern Ireland as an individual, political entity. The flag is the mos widely-recognised flag used to represent Northern Ireland. Until the Assembly, or whatever other political installment is underway, and decides on a flag that should be used to represent the region, then the Northern Ireland flag should be used. Having said all that, see my comment in the next subsection of this page. --Mal 03:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Flags in general

I must say that they look terrible on this template. The England / Wales combination really doesn't help, and of course it's creating a whole non-issue over the NI flag. I'd like to propose that the flags go altogether, though I doubt that will reach any acceptance. →Ollie (talk • contribs) 20:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that the flags should not be used at all, But the Issue of the use of the Ulster Banner dosen't only effect this template, but it has been used in a number of templates and articles, this is promoting the POV of one section of the population of Northern Ireland, as the flag has no legal standing, and ceased to be used officialy since 1972.--padraig3uk 12:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Flag icons are not necessary to the functionality or presentation of the template. (Comment to Padraig: your "one section" comment - the 'other section' would surely not even recognise Northern Ireland as a separate political unit, never mind what flag it should have to represent it!) --Mal 03:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Whilst that may be true Mal, the use of the UB is seen by them as the flag of the former Unionist state that oppressed them.--padraig3uk 22:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Oppressed who exactly..? --Mal 03:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Oppressed by the "state for Protestants, run by Protestants" - lets not get into this. Anyway, as a compromise, I suggest that if/when the NI Assembly is back up and running then that flag and symbol should be used. Thoughts?--Vintagekits 18:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

If you do not wish to get into a discussion about "oppression", and you wish to avoid mentioning oppression of Protestants by Roman Catholics in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, then I suggest you don't mention it. Your quote is presumably a mis-quote of Craig, who actually said, "I have always said I am an Orangeman first and a politician and Member of this Parliament afterwards ... The Hon. Member must remember that in the South they boasted of a Catholic State. They still boast of Southern Ireland being a Catholic State. All I boast is that we are a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State."

If your suggestion is to use a recognised symbol of the Northern Ireland Executive as a flag for the country in this template then, presumably, you would not object to using the currently-recognised flag of Northern Ireland - the one that had been the official flag of the former government of Northern Ireland - until such time as the Assembly invents or adopts such a symbol.

Solutions to the problem with this template, as I see it, include: changing all the flags for each of the countries to coloured geographical shapes (as is the case with Northern Ireland currently - the only country in the list to be treated exceptionally); to change to the flag of Northern Ireland for Northern Ireland; or to remove all such symbols and merely list the countries in text-only. --Mal 04:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Any solution as long as it removes the use of the Ulster Banner, this flag has no legal status, and the suggestion that it should be used because it was the legal flag 35yrs ago is absurd.--padraig3uk 09:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I dont agree Mal, what we are saying is that a redundant flag is now put to bed, similar the old south african flag.--Vintagekits 10:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Northern Ireland doesn't have a flag, and it is entirely POV as to whether one regards the Ulster Banner as Northern Ireland's flag. I hardly need to state that quite a large proportion of NI's population do not regard the UB as being the flag, and as already pointed out, it has no official status. The NI Assembly already has a logo[1], but I don't know whether it's appropriate to use it here. If all else fails, just use the geographical outline; at least it's recognisable. If it doesn't have a suitable flag, there's very little we can do about it. It's certainly not up to us to make one up. Martin 02:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Extra space

The two line breaks between the end of the table and the noinclude tag need to be removed to get rid of extra vertical whitespace that is showing up in articles using this template. Thanks in advance. --- RockMFR 19:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. —METS501 (talk) 21:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Northern Ireland Flag Size

Instead of 35px, shouldn't it be 30px like all of the other flags. Behun 03:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hong Kong

I am moving Hong Kong's OoP on its own. Reasons as follow:

a) In comparison to Canada/UK's OoP where the Federal/National level events OoP trumps provincial/local level OoP, this is not the case in HK. All mainland Chinese official are treated as Guest of HKSAR. [2]

b) OoPs is a means of showing officials of a country by their ranks. By Basic Law of Hong Kong, the only Chinese official who can intervene on the business of HK is the President of PRC and therefore, OoP of China and HK put together does not make legal sense.

c) The HK OoP (before and after handover) specfically leaves out the Head of State (The Queen, The President) and only lists those who are Hong Kong Chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cahk (talk • contribs) 02:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)