Template talk:Professor Layton

THe Game's Order

I am going to move "Majin no Fue" behind Curious Village since it is the game's prequel. Even though the game is coming out after Curious Village, it took place many years before... IF you have any questions, I'll be glad to discuss them with you...AlexanderLD (talk) 11:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

What is the actual reason for it to be in chronological order? Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 21:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Because that is the most logical way to have the list.... Think of Star Wars. They had the order of the movies like 4,5,6,1,2,3. That is how they are doing the Layton series, so I think it would be best to follow that order. AlexanderLD (talk) 11:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

No, the Star Wars template is ordered from 1 to 6, with the prequels first. Whatever it is like with the Star Wars template, anyway, I don't really see how it is "logical". The release order is the order in which their context in the real world, i.e. as shown by sources, exists, so it makes more sense to order it based on that rather than something secondary like the in-universe series plot. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 15:30, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Well then can we do it just like that one. Have the prequel trilogy, and then the first trilogy. I would like it to be listed chronologically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexanderLD (talk • contribs) 12:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The division between Star Wars Episode 1/2/3 and 4/5/6 is official, unlike that of the games of Professor Layton. There is only one Layton series and Curious Village is undeniably the first game that was released in the series. See also Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction). Megata Sanshiro (talk) 15:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Arranging by chronological order with video games is very in-universe. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 09:46, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

As a person with absolutely no experience with Professor Layton, I was confused that Curious Village wasn't listed first despite being the first game released. I actually had to check one of the prequel game's pages to see that it was a prequel and guess that it was being listed chronologically, but then I was further confused by the Eternal Diva, which is listed as part of the "main series" with no given distiniction that this is a movie and not a game.--Claude (talk) 06:52, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm reordering the game's back to the order in which they were released. Since there is already a chronological order template on each of the pages it would lead to less confusion on the template.KiasuKiasiMan (talk) 10:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Um, I am putting it back to the chronological order, since 1: Level-5 numbered the games that way. 2: If there is a chronological order on each of the pages, people are going to be more confused seeing the games again out of chronological order. AlexanderLD (talk) 13:45, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

1: So? It's not uncommon that a series has a fictional chronology. 2: It's redundant to have two almost identical templates on a page. Also every other series navbox uses a real-world chronology, I don't see why this one has to be different. --Mika1h (talk) 15:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I dont know what the problem is, but the chronological order is really much easier. People are really confused about the prequels, if you just say Main Series Chronologically, that would just eliminate the problems. And, Level-5 called Eternal Diva, Professor Layton 1.5. So it belongs with the main series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexanderLD (talk • contribs) 16:27, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

How easy is it for someone to navigate a template if they don't know anything about the series? And no, we do not include two media formats together. Video games, other media. That's it. Plot connection does not equal being in the main series. You use the Star Wars template as an example for chronological listing, but not for the fact that it doesn't include other media into the main template, I see. FYI, however, Star Wars now lists by release date, not when the films take place. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Whatever this is Wikipedia, I dont really care at this point. Just one thing, why do you keep changing Specter's Flute to Majin no Fue. I already provided a source with BOTH NINENDO OF AMERICA AND NINTENDO OF EUROPE calling the game Specter's Flute. Thata pretty good confirmation, so I will be changing the name back.69.124.227.89 (talk) 13:25, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Wandering Castle

A little while back, I made a change as my school's IP (216.162.89.85) regarding the order of Wandering Castle and Phantom Deity within the template. Seeing as vandalism by others in my school has made it impossible for me to edit from there, I've switched to my personal account. Now, since that change was reverted, I realized that I had made a mistake and should have asked about it here first.

Now, my question is: Why is Phantom Deity, which was published after and takes place after Wandering Castle, before Wandering Castle in the template? Is there any debate over the order, as there is with the prequels? Bobtheadventurer (talk) 17:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Phantom Deity takes place BEFORE Wandering Castle, so I guess it would be easy to chronolize the series. AlexanderLD (talk) 13:45, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

New edits

Okay, I didnt make the new edits, but since they have been made, Im just gonna fix them a little. If you want to make them by series. Then someone is going to have to make sure, that it is accurate!!!! They are not trilogies when there is two movies and three games. Thats five things. So, I'm just going to spruce it up... AlexanderLD (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Alright, the new edit that took place solved all the problems people had about the order, they were listed chronologically, and

were in accordance to Wikipedia's guidelines. And Eternal Diva is part of the main series, even though its not a game. And that is coming from Level-5, not me. AlexanderLD (talk) 23:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Naming Issues

So, there have been a lot of issues regarding the name of the games now that the European versions are switching things up a little. As previously discussed, the FIRST OFFICIAL ENGLISH TITLE will be the title used for the article. We will not be changing the name of the article for European audiences, even though that is the bigger audience. As Wikipedia standards, we will continue to use the first English name, which in this case, happens to be the North American version. AlexanderLD

(talk) 02:27, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Stop ignoring consensus, Alexander.

The consensus is clearly against setting the template up like this. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:52, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

By consensus, do you mean just you? I dont know what the problem is with the template, Eternal Diva is part of the main series, and I think it belongs with the other entries in the series. And there was nothing wrong with the template that was already set up. It met all of Wikipedia's guidlines, and is modeled after other articles with similar information. The two season list makes things a lot easier for those new to the series to understand how the games story plays out. I see no benefit of having the template arranged to your likings. AlexanderLD (talk) 00:40, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi! I edited the template too, so it's not just TNARH. Wikipedia should always follow an out-of-universe perspective, which means for the templates that it is better to organize the entries by media (a concrete, out-of-universe perspective for readers) rather than in-universe considerations. Eternal Diva is part of the main series, sure, so this should be explained in the relevant articles. It is also first and foremost an animated film, and the template should reflect this. Remember that the purpose of a template is to show at a glance the articles of a topic. It is not meant to explain the whole chronology and story of a fictional work; that is the purpose of the articles. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 12:00, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, there are many other Wikipedia articles that follow the same structure. The Star Wars template, which is definately more popular than Professor Layton and has probably had more edit controversies that almost anything else, has the same structure to the template I designed. I just think that if the developers label the games like that, our order should not reflect the opposide of what the series is about. The main concern here is that you dont want Eternal Diva as part of the main series's template. Well how would people know that if its not under the main series part of the template? Is there any harm of including the Eternal Diva, according to your own standards, it should be explained in its article that it is a movie, not a game. Secondly, the template was not in chronological order. It was in the order of the series' release. I'm going to ask you to reconsider, because that is how Level-5 is branding the series. AlexanderLD (talk) 12:59, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait, so Haipa Doragon, Mika1h, myself, Megata, Claude, and KiasuKiasiMan didn't clearly oppose your formation of the template? It doesn't matter that Star Wars' template does not follow traditional navigational box guidelines. The VG navbox guidelines exist for a reason. We should not cater to "this template does this, so we should do it instead of following guidelines." - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I didnt design the template I am defending. Someone else did, and I thought it was a compromise. The games are listed in order of release. Which was the exact controversy that occured before under "THe game's order". So I still do not understand the major complaint with the template that I am using. I think Megata Sanshiro said that there is only one Layton series. That is completely false. Level-5 has said on numerous occasions "Professor Layton's Second Season" "Professor Layton's new Series" etc. I am happy to compromise with you, because you clearly think that every edit I make is wrong and not true, I'll make another edit, similar to the one I made before, but not much different from the one now. AlexanderLD (talk) 02:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say anything like that. Please don't put words into people's mouth. Also, your problem is that you want the template to describe the whole topic in full details instead of being a tool for navigating the articles. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 11:23, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, first this is an exact quote of what you said, Megata Sanshiro, "The division between Star Wars Episode 1/2/3 and 4/5/6 is official, unlike that of the games of Professor Layton. There is only one Layton series and Curious Village is undeniably the first game that was released in the series." So, your arguement was that is was unofficial, then it was official, and now you denied saying it was unofficial. You need to make up your mind, is it official or unofficial? Is there a Second Season of Professor Layton games, or did Level-5 just lie to trick everyone except you? The next point I need to address, is that I "want the template to describe the whole topic in full details..." Excuse me, what does that even mean? I might as well copy and paste the entire first paragraph of each article into the template! So again, what is the problem with dividing the main series into First and Second Season? I tried to comromise with New Age Retro hippie, but not putting the series in chronoligical order. Everything was placed in the order of the game's original release. That is the main concern you had before, and it was fixed. There should be no excuse for your distaste of the new template. AlexanderLD (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, you're still stuck on this almost 365 days later? Man, just accept the age-old consensus like it seemed you had during the one-year span. Everyone has moved on. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 23:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

One, that was before any of the Second Season games were released. And two, I said, Im not going to order the series chronoligically anymore. So, clearly that is getting over the "age-old consensus". You are just to ignorant to even look at the alternate template that is in the order of the game's release. So I see ho reason why not to change it considering your only complaint is they you want it in the order of the release. AlexanderLD (talk) 00:32, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

By the fact that you are the only human being that we can confirm to have the opinion that you hold, we can say that nothing you've presented gets "over" the consensus. If you keep fighting against the clear majority, I will seek any venue that prevents such disregard, which would either entail full page protection or a block. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 09:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, first, the consensus was that they were against the series in chronological order. Every edit I have made has kept the series in the order of their release. So just give me one good reason why not to separate the seasons? I didnt include Eternal Diva because you said it not part of the same media. All five games were under the same section, just with a division between Season 1 and Season 2, which is confirmed by Level-5. It seems like the last 10 posts I've made and been asking for a reasonable explanation as why not to separate the two seasons, and every nasty response I've received is that you dont want the series in chronological order. And I think there are more than one human beings that hold my opinion. Level-5, the developer for example: http://www.andriasang.com/e/galleries/2009/11/26/layton_event/2132399732/ and http://www.andriasang.com/e/galleries/2009/11/26/layton_event/2132399733/ AlexanderLD (talk) 12:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

We don't sort navigational templates by plot, or split them up based on it. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Who wants to split them up based on plot? Not anyone yet! I am dividing them BY SEASON!!! You just dont want to have them divided by season for some strange reason, whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm just trying to help out the article, as I am a bigger fan of the series than you, and I think it deserves a little more justice. So I'm done fixing your mistakes. AlexanderLD (talk) 01:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see that you've given up on forcing the template to change. Fact of the matter is that "season two" is still based on plot - the first season and second season split is based entirely on plot. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)