Template talk:R from title and subtitle

Unredirect?

I'm aware that the redirect target of R from subtitle has been changed a couple times; this refers to the current target {{R from long name}}. One of the edit summaries advised further discussion anyway.

I noticed that we don't seem to distinguish between "Subtitle → Title: Subtitle" and "Subtitle → Title without subtitle" cases. Even in the latter, this is not necessarily equivalent to {{R from long name}} because subtitles are not guaranteed to be longer than the main title.

Is it worth unredirecting this template while we sort out the logic, in preparation for an eventual split into two separate templates? I don't have a particular wording in mind yet though.

I noticed this issue because I came across The Coming Race (target Vril), which is an example of "Subtitle → Title without subtitle." I wanted to add R from subtitle to said redirect but had doubts when I noticed that R from subtitle was itself a redirect, even though it would technically have been acceptable in this case. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 06:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• @SoledadKabocha: The purpose of the redirect is not for titles that include only a subtitle, but rather a title that includes the title and the subtitle. However, if you believe that you can boldly create a new category with your belief for the purpose of this template's title, be my guest (given that your approach seems quite feasible.) Steel1943 (talk) 06:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Moved from Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 January 13 § Outdoor Retreat

• @Tavix: Turns out that I've talked about this before; no wonder it sounded familiar to me. But, either way, probably best to ping Paine Ellsworth to at least ensure that creating a new Rcat template at this title doesn't create duplication with another existing Rcat. Steel1943 (talk) 18:33, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
  • That sounds like a good idea to me. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
    • Hey, ya'll! Hope you're both having a Happy New Year! I had a recent revisiting discussion on the target's talk page, and it was thought there that you, Steelman, wanted to begin to develop this rcat a couple of years ago, but it apparently went on the back burner. I certainly don't mind anyone turning an rcat redirect into an rcat as long as they intend to see that its Category:Redirects from subtitles is monitored and that SoledadKabocha's concerns on the target's talk page are addressed. It looks like there are bare subtitles and then there are titles with subtitles that redirect to the title-only article, and so on.  Paine Ellsworth  ^u/c 09:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
• I would prefer not to distinguish between redirects from subtitles to either long or short names, and really don't like the current situation of this title redirecting to R from subtopic. Am I overlooking something big? When would a redirect from a subtitle actually indicate a subtopic of the target? --BDD (talk) 23:03, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
  • You're not missing anything, really, BDD, because when I retargeted this away from {{R from long name}} I was unable to find a better target and figured that its present target was at least better than the original target. I also figured that Steel1943 would soon be developing this as an rcat, and since there were (and are) no redirects tagged by this rcat, the target was just an interim solution. Also, I think I may have related "subtitle" to "subtopic" in much the same way as an article's "title" is related to its "topic" – not the same, just related. Of course, that is not how it was intended, as Steel1943 and SoledadKabocha have shown. Where to go from here?  Paine Ellsworth  ^u/c 03:26, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
• @Paine Ellsworth and Tavix: I'll be honest, if any of this discussion is awaiting me WP:BOLDly attempting to create a new WP:RCAT, you'll probably be waiting for a while. That, and as BDD sort of started, that may not be the best idea anyways. Steel1943 (talk) 17:43, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I tend to agree. I'm not too worried what ends up happening with this either way. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:54, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Not a problem, Steelman, and I retargeted it to {{R from more specific name}}. If there's a better target, then put 'er there.  Paine Ellsworth  ^u/c 14:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)