Template talk:University of Alabama

University of Alabama School of Medicine

UASoM is listed as an AFFILIATION. It is affiliated with the University. A branch of the school is located on the University's campus and many faculty and staff through that branch are under the University of Alabama. They are very much "affiliated" with each other. Please do not revert again. If you question this, discuss it here. Do not revert with out any attempt of discussion. Rtr10 (talk) 22:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

UASOM is not part of UA, sorry. UASOM students are taught at the College of Community Health Sciences, which is an organizational unit of UA, and which is listed in the "Schools and Colleges" section. UASOM reports to the President of UAB, not UA. Likewise, the CCHS does not report directly to the UASOM or the President of UAB. The "affiliations" field should be for groups an organizations that the university is a part of, such as the NCAA, SEC, SACS, etc. UAH and UAB don't have the UA School of Law listed as an affiliation, it just doesn't make any sense. jblake (talk) 15:49, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Please, look up the definition of affiliation. With UASOM holding a branch on the University of Alabama's campus, with University of Alabama students, faculty and staff participating with in that branch. The two are very much connected and affiliated. Please do not make another ignorant revert. This template in noway, shape or form says or implies that UA controls UASOM. It simply states that they are affiliated, which they very much are. Thank you in advance, for your cooperation. Rtr10 (talk) 17:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

This does not fit the style of navigation boxes. The 'Affiliations' section should be for affiliations with groups and organizations that the institution is a member of. The appropriate place for a link back to the UASOM is in the 'Schools' section, where I will be moving it yet again. jblake (talk) 20:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I have listed this for dispute resolution at Wikipedia:Third opinion#Active disagreements jblake (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

3rd opinion - question. Rtr10 are you saying that UASOM has branches OTHER than at UA, or that it is a member of some outside organisation that has such branches? Also, jblake what is UAB? Redheylin (talk) 15:01, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok here is the background: UA and UAB are two equal and independent institutions of the University of Alabama System (Similar organization to the University of California System). The University of Alabama School of Medicine is part of the University of Alabama at Birmingham. It is called the UASOM by law, but it is organizationally part of UAB, not UA. UAB is not a branch campus of UA. The UASOM has branch campuses in Huntsville, Alabama (run solely by UAB) and in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The Tuscaloosa branch is in conjunction with UA, in the College of Community Health Sciences. Rtr10's argument is that this is an 'affiliation' such as the schools' affiliations with the NCAA or their athletic conferences. My argument is that a link from the School's section in the template is the appropriate place, as generally the affiliations section is for outside organizations, whereas the UASOM/CCHS are not such organizations and are in fact schools/colleges of the universities. jblake (talk) 23:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

User RT, please can you source your adoption of the term "affiliation"? Redheylin (talk) 23:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

RTR10 - if you would like to withdraw your use of the term, that will only show your good manners and intellectual integrity. Your response is awaited. Nobody wants to disrespect your input. Redheylin (talk) 12:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

jblake - I suggest you remove the "affiliation". Our friend is not a regular contributor. Any editor is free to contact me if they wish to continue discussion. Please do this rather than fighting and incivility, or I shall come an beat you up lowlifes. Redheylin (talk) 01:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay on response. No disrepect to either of you, but I don't log in to Wikipedia everyday, because I simply don't have the time to. I think I explained the affiliation pretty well above, but they are very much affiliated because the UASoM operates a large branch at the University of Alabama in which University of Alabama faculty, staff and students all participate in large roles. I really don't know how else to explain it. It seems that Jblake takes this personally for some reason, but it is simply an affiliation. If you look up affiliation in the dictionary, you will see pretty clearly that how UASoM and UA operate together, they are very much affiliated with each other. Jblake always points out the structure of the University of Alabama System, but that is irrelevant to this. This template does not state that UA operates the School of Medicine and Jblake seems to think it does. That is really all I know to say right now. And by the way, while I do not log in every single day, I have done extensive work and have a independent project in improving sites about or related to the University of Alabama including the creation of this template, so please do not speak down on my level of participation, because quite frankly, you have no right. Thanks and sorry again for the delayed response. Rtr10 (talk) 22:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

RTR10 - I appreciate what you are saying, but this really requires a notable and authoritative source - otherwise it is just a personal view. If a is really "affiliated" to b then the fact must be recorded in some official document. That is what we need. Please also do not make impatient remarks and revert - if this thing is important to you, it's up to you to stay on the ball and make your casse. It was I who suggested that things be put back the way they were. I am going to put it back. Please DO NOT revert or alter again without producing an authoritative source - you need this to make the change you are proposing. The dictionary will not be enough - the word "affiliated" must be used in official literature, because it's a technical term. Nobody is finding fault with the work you do, and definitely nobody wants to put you off editing. I do not think there has been anything personal said - just that, since it is you who wants to make the change, it is up to you to make the case, and until you can, it's better to leave things as they are. Redheylin (talk) 22:53, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Redheylin, I appreciate and understand your work, but with all do respect I pretty much single handedly built this template, installed it into pages, etc. And you have came in, read one persons view of something and try to undo my hard work and discount myself as an editor because I don't log onto Wikipedia every single day, like it's my life. I'm sorry, but that just seems extremely disrespectful and for you to do anything and say it was "in good faith" is just a joke. HOWEVER, I am linking the University of Alabama School of Medicine Tuscaloosa/UA campus website, which easily shows the strong affiliation between the two institutions. If there are any questions, feel free to ask, but I don't know what else to do other than this. University of Alabama School of Medicine Tuscaloosa Campus website this whole thing has become pretty ridiculous, but I hope this puts an end to it. Thanks again for your work. Rtr10 (talk) 05:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Rtr10, regardless of who created the template, you are not the owner of it. The philosophy of Wikipedia is that it is peer reviewed and edited by everyone. My entire point is that the link to the UASOM should be in the Schools section. The UASOM/CCHS are SCHOOLS of the University. The affiliations section is aligned for outside organizations that the University is a member of, such as NCAA, SEC, SACS, etc. My reasoning behind this is not personal. I have contributed a lot to the UA System and UAB articles and think it would be appropriate to have some consistency across all the articles. jblake (talk) 17:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Something I'd like to add is that the UASOM branch campuses are not "affiliations", they are part of the Universities themselves. An affiliation with say the NCAA is such because the NCAA is an independent organization. You wouldn't say that UA or UAB are 'affiliated' with the State of Alabama..they are a PART of the State of Alabama, at least organizationally. jblake (talk) 17:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

A college may be affiliated to a university if it is not entirely a part of the university. For instance, the Uni of Bucharest website has; "A college which is administratively independent but whose academic affairs are governed by the senate of the university to which it is affiliated. Instruction is provided by the college, but degrees are usually awarded by the university."

We are looking for some documentation that the UASOM and UAB are affiliated. Usually this will be clearly stated somewhere in the prospectus, website etc. I cannot find this in the documentation you have supplied, RT. Now, look at this tag:

Unreferenced material may be challenged and removed. That is what has happened here, RTR, and it was wrong to revert without adding a reference. Incivility and accusations of bad faith are going to make it worse - you are edit-warring. You have either to provide the source in a reasonable space of time or else accept it when the material is challenged and removed. There is no third option. Well, there is, but.....Redheylin (talk) 19:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Redheylin, you will not find an 'affiliation' as you suggest between UAB, UA, and the UASOM. The UASOM is a school of UAB. The UASOM also administers some programs on the campus of the University of Alabama. All three of these entities are a part of the University of Alabama System. Technically they are all the same institution. There is not an affiliation in the way you describe above, because these entities are all part of each other, none of them are independent in the way that you are thinking (In such a way that European universities are structured, for example Oxford) jblake (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I am explaining to RT the case he needs to make; that affiliation must be declared by the parties concerned: it is a meaningful term in the world of higher education that is always declared in the prospectus, for instance. I am not going to try to find out whether it can be done. But you can also offer a case by showing and explaining a few similar usages in US college boxes. Draft 'em in here and make your case! Redheylin (talk) 22:14, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

This is taken directly from the sourced website... "The Tuscaloosa campus of the University of Alabama School of Medicine provides the clinical years of medical education for UASOM medical students who choose to spend their third and fourth years at the College of Community Health Sciences in Tuscaloosa. " The College of Community Health Sciences that is mentioned is a school of the University of Alabama. That is a clear affiliation as you Reheylin, mention above. I don't know how much clearly that could be defined. The two schools operate together in a very popular program through both the University of Alabama School of Medicine (which is a school under UAB) and the University of Alabama itself. That is an affiliation. It just won't get much clearer than that. Rtr10 (talk) 03:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It is not the same as an affiliation in terms of how UA is affiliated with the NCAA or the SEC. That is my entire point. The proper place for this link is in the Schools/Colleges section from each template. I'm not going to post on this anymore, and await whatever the dispute resolution ends with. jblake (talk) 16:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

That is irrelevant. Every affiliation is not the same. UA's affiliation with the NCAA is not the same as the SEC. There is no specific mold or anything. It's either affiliated or it isn't and in this case it is. Again, I don't know how much clearer I can make that. I've been trying to make that clear for the last several months. UASOM is not a school under the University of Alabama, it is a school under UAB, you know that. It doesn't belong under UA's Schools list, because it isn't a school, it's an affiliation. Rtr10 (talk) 20:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Would one of you be good enough to email these two organisations and ask them? Redheylin (talk) 18:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I honestly do not have the time to even look up who to email. I think if you look at the sourced website and my explation for you, because I know you are not that familiar with the affiliation, I think you will understand. Don't know who to email though that could make it any clearer than it is. Rtr10 (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

RTR10 - do you accept the principle that the term "affiliation" has a particular meaning and that use of the term must be properly sourced? jblake - do you not think it would be good to show an example of college affiliation in another article or template? Redheylin (talk) 22:54, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I do understand the meaning of affiliation. I think it was jblake who didn't really understand the term and how it applies to UA and UASoM. If UASoM doesn't fit in the affiliations category, what category should it go under? It was originally under the Schools and Departments category, but someone then corrected that because UASoM is a school under UAB, so it clearly doesn't belong under Schools and Departments. I honestly believe we have found a resolve in this matter. Rtr10 (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The point is; that information in wiki must be sourced, and you are relying upon "original research" - your own view of what "affiliation" means. The term "affiliation" has to be used by the organisations themselves to describe their relationship. If this verifiability is not there the information can and should be removed. If you revert and alter such changes without providing any proof, you are slipping into page-ownership and vandalism. Redheylin (talk) 19:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Redheylin, I don't think you understand that there is no source that will say in one sentence "UA is affiliated with UASOM" no such source excist. And that is in no way Wiki Policy, because there is no such source provided for other affiliations such as the Southeastern Conference or even the University of Alabama System for that matter. What you are asking for does not excist for any affiliation and is rather rediculious to ask for. A source that clearly shows the affiliation has been provided, so I can't possibly see what else is being questioned. This just goes back to the opinions between myself and Jblake as to where the school should be listed. Rtr10 (talk) 05:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

My opinion is that it should be linked to from the Schools section, with the link on the CCHS. Medicine shouldn't be listed in the schools section separately. Link the CCHS from the Schools section to the UASOM article. It's my opinion/argument that the 'affiliations' section should be for outside organizations and groups that the school is a member of or affiliated with, such as the SEC, NCAA, etc. I'm not disputing the meaning of the word affiliated, and I think Redheylin may be looking at this the wrong way. jblake (talk) 12:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

If you would like to create a section on the UASOM page and then link it to the CCHS in the schools section, that would be fine by me, but it would still not change the fact of the affiliation and would not warrent the removal from the affiliations page, because in one instance you are talking about the CCHS a UA school and in the other you are talking about UASOM. Rtr10 (talk) 05:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Dead Links

The following items were included in the template although no article yet exists. I removed these to clear up clutter but, if and when an article is created, they should be added back in:

• Academics
  • Culverhouse College of Commerce and Business Administration
  • College of Education
  • Honors College
  • College of Human Environmental Sciences
  • Capstone College of Nursing
  • School of Social Work
• Campus
  • Amelia Gayle Gorgas Library
  • Ferguson Center
  • Gorgas House
  • Little Round House

RevelationDirect (talk) 22:49, 9 April 2014 (UTC)