Template talk:Welcome/Archive 6

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Art parameter

I think the "art" parameter should be changed to "article" because I was confused when I first saw it. I thought about the actual word "art", as if it was related to the fine arts. I think if it gets changed, a lot of confusion might get cleared up. I don't know, maybe it's just me... — Cuyler91093 - Contributions 05:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. Made the change. - jc37 09:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The "art" parameter is a standard one across multiple templates (see {{Wel}}, {{Welcome-anon}}, {{Welcomeanon2}}, for example). If we decide that it should be changed, we should do it across the board for the sake of consistency. This consistency is a good thing to have for things like automated scripts, which rely upon consistent parameter names for programming simplicity. I'm not for or against changing this parameter, really, but I think if it is changed, it should be done to all the templates that currently use it. In the meantime, I'm going to undo your change, jc37, so we can see if anybody else has any input. Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 15:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Radar detector

What does the "radar detector" for positive contributions actually mean? I used it earlier today when welcoming a user, and I must admit that I did not see any significant difference. StephenBuxton (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Radar detector is just an example article. If you do use the "art" parameter, it changes second sentence to read "...your contributions, especially what you did for radar detector." Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 14:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

BASEPAGENAME or subst:BASEPAGENAME?

I see that we just call up {{BASEPAGENAME}} whenever this template is subsituted. Wouldn't it be more personal, and also reduce strain on the server (maybe), it we use {{su<noinclude></noinclude>bst:BASEPAGENAME}}? That way, it subsitutes the username. What do people think? Soxred93 | talk count bot 18:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This has been discussed before. Current consensus is that since it would break any non-substed appearance of the template, it is better not to make this change. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Where/when was this discussed before? This template is supposed to be substituted. Has it been or is it being used incorrectly such that there are many unsubstituted uses? Hyacinth (talk) 02:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

AWB just gave me a count of more than 13,000 transclusions. Many people do not subst this template, and "the source will look a little better without the BASEPAGENAME" is a poor reason to break things for them. Kusma (talk) 07:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

In this talk page, at some points in time between the creation of the template and this day. More specifically, you can find recent discussions at #Proposed change and #{{BASEPAGENAME}} (though those mostly refer to older discussions which are now in the archives). I disagree with Kusma, though - "the source will look better" is a great reason, just not good enough (unless the associated problems can be solved). -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

See here for all of the talk page transclusions. MC10 | Sign here! 01:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Heading in template

Headings on talk pages is required by Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#New topics and headings on talk pages). As such this template must include a heading. Hyacinth (talk) 07:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Apologies for the rollback, that was actually not my intention. To have a heading or not was dicussed excessively on this discussion page. I am not sure myself if I agree with or not. But to state that it must have a heading because it is required per a guideline is nonsense. It can be discussed here (again) whether or not it should have one. Garion96 (talk) 09:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

As someone who uses this template several times every session I heartily request that the headings be reinstated. It's quite annoying to have to re-edit to correct this deficiency. Why we would have Welcome instead is bewildering as talk sections, as evident on most every talk page, don't start that way and it's hardly a good lesson to teach newby editors. Benjiboi 21:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

It is the long standing behavior that {{welcome}} comes above the TOC. I think you're looking for {{welcome2}}. Kusma (talk) 22:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Had no clue there was a duplicate. Cheers. Benjiboi 05:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I also prefer the welcome template without a heading. It goes at the top of the user talk page and shows up nicely before the TOC and actual discussions start (like an introduction if you wish).

One issue with "Welcome" being a section would be that if the welcome template is not subst'ed, anybody attempting to edit that section will actually edit the welcome template, which is protected. That would be rather confusing (although not that likely). Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 05:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Linebreak addition

Regarding this edit, I would argue that people put stuff before {{welcome}} rarely enough that in that situation they can add the <BR> by hand themselves rather than forcing it on everybody else. Comments? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the whitespace is rather annoying, and I don't see a single good reason to ever use it. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Add hidden comments to the line on the "helpme" tag

{{editprotected}}

Summary

The section of text where the "{{helpme}}" tag is mentioned should be changed. Some users may place this incorrectly on their talk page. For example: a user would have copied the text directly from the text box on "edit this page" instead of how template tag is properly used.

What users do wrong

In other words, they would windup with {{helpme}} (which only displays {{helpme}} with a link to Category:Wikipedians looking for help). This only shows the user under the "What links here" for Category:Wikipedians looking for help at Special:Whatlinkshere/Category:Wikipedians looking for help. A user talk page there could probably just have the welcome template on their page (which is why there is a link). If this is case, the user would not be listed in the category itself.

The correct usage would show the following box (which I copied directly from the template itself)

I am looking for help!

• Ask your question below. You can look at the Help Contents, ask at the Help desk, or search the FAQ.

Note to helpers: once you have offered help, please remove this template or replace it with {{tnull|helpme}}.

What to change

Change:
<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[:Category:Wikipedians looking for help|helpme]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>

To this:
<!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "code" and "nowiki" tags. --><code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[:Category:Wikipedians looking for help|helpme]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code><!-- Do not include the "code" and "nowiki" tags. -->

Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 21:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion/comments

I disagree with this change. Regretfully, instructions are sometimes misunderstood, and that no matter how detailed and precise they are. There's a balance to strike between making something fool-proof and keeping a resonable exposition, and I think this request goes too far. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 05:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be simpler and more effective to simply remove the link to the category page. Currently, we are telling newbies to write something with a link, while we want them to write something without a link. We should fix the visible instructions before adding invisible instructions to make up for mistakes in the visible instructions. Kusma (talk) 13:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. That link has no use and just confuses folks. I removed it. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 20:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Not really what I suggested, but that would work. Thanks. Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 21:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggesting wording change to simplify

I suggest changing:

"type {{helpme}} and your question on your user talk page"

to

"type {{helpme}} and your question on this page"

The new user may not know what a 'user talk page' is, and even if they do, no value is added by the extra words.

I am suggesting this change for {{welcome}}, {{welcome2}}, {{welcome-anon}}, {{welcomeShout}}, {{welcome5}}, and {{welcomenh}}. Some of the wordings are slightly different, but I'm only proposing that 'your user talk page' be changed to 'this page'. Thoughts? -SCEhardT 02:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. It makes sense, and it clarifies it for new users. I actually had a new user type {{helpme}} on my talk page and then ask their question, so I'm totally in favour of the change. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 00:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome header

Should you make the template be able to make the header (== Welcome ==), so its less work to do? NimiTize 14:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Check out {{Welcome2}} :-) -SCEhardT 14:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Template substitution

I've noticed the thousands of talk pages that directly transclude this template and have sent in a request for approval of ShepBot to go through and subst all of the ones done incorrectly. The task would start with this one and move to the other welcomes. Is this okay with the editors who maintain this template? Thanks. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggesting auto-sign

I suggest "--~~<includeonly></includeonly>~~" be included at the end in order to autosign when substing. --Emesee (talk) 05:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Some people prefer to write a personal message at the end of the template, which I think is a good idea. I believe if you really want to welcome somebody you can go through the trouble of putting in the four tildas yourself. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 05:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with Oleg; make it personal. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Edit request: Force page name to display as a normal link

{{editprotect}}

Please change the line of text that says:

{{#if:{{{art|}}}|, especially what you did for [[{{{art}}}]]|}}

to this (the bold text):

{{#if:{{{art|}}}|, especially what you did for [[:{{{art}}}]]|}}

This way images and categories (should this be case of the user's primary contributions) are forced to display as wiki links
Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for Image:Wiki.png.

and not like this for example:
Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for .

I doubt this will be the case when this template is used, but it is a minor change and will insure that a link to the page will just be that, a link.

Thanks. Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 19:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Done. --- RockMFR 20:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion for change in wikilink

The wikilink for welcome should go to the Welcome page of Wikipedia Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia not to the Wikipedia:Introduction. Has this been discussed before? 211.30.16.21 (talk) 09:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It would be easier to link the first word: "Welcome!" - It is currently unlinked. The Welcoming Committee page is well enough formatted that it should be pushed pretty hard. Promote to root Wikipedia: namespace first, though? That said, the first sentence that reads "Hello, Welcome, and welcome to Wikipedia!" is a gramattical mess. Shouldn't it read as follows? "Hello and welcome to the Wikipedia!" That would seem much more reasonable and professional. I for one will stop using this template for now - Didn't realize how shoddily worded it was. MrZaius^talk 11:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Thats the default username "Welcome". It shows correctly when its added to user talk pages, but i agree with your suggestion. Hopefully some other people can share their views. 211.30.16.21 (talk) 13:53, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

A nice little banner

This looks a tad bit bad, I think we should add a border. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Resident Mario (talk • contribs) 01:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Example:

==Welcome!==

Hello, Welcome, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Introduction to Wikipedia
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome!

We already have several bordered, coloured welcome templates (such as Template:Welcomeg) for editors who prefer a more colourful introduction. --McGeddon (talk) 22:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

"Especially what you did for"

Does anyone else find the wording of "Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for [article]." a little strange? I used the template to thank someone for editing a biography article, and it read as if I was thanking them for doing the article's subject a personal favour. It gets weirder when you're thanking people "especially what you did for Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses".

Perhaps a reword to "especially your edits to [article]"? --McGeddon (talk) 21:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Welcome and welcome?

Hi, Part of this template "Welcome and Welcome" does not make sense, maybe you can erase the first welcome.

Hankie1016 (talk) 17:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

It's automatically using the name of the article as if it were the user's name ("Hello, Welcome, and welcome to Wikipedia!") - if you actually put the template on a user page, it uses their name in place of the first "welcome", instead. --McGeddon (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Optional heading?

Perhaps it would be better if this template had an optional parameter that caused the built-in "Welcome!" title to not be displayed. Then {{Welcome2}} and {{Welcomenh}} could call this template by reference, so that their text stays the same as this template's. --Srleffler (talk) 22:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Add the missing manual to the template

{{editprotected}} I ask that the followin bullet be added:

• Intuitive guide to Wikipedia

--Ipatrol (talk) 00:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

 Not done No sign of any support for this change. Please establish consensus before proposing changes to protected templates. If a discussion has been held elsewhere (e.g. the Village Pump) please provide a link. Thanks. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 17:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>

{{editprotected}}

All right, I'm not sure what the "Please don't try any includeonly or noinclude:subst tricks here, they won't work! Please make your case on the talk page." is about, but, I'm pretty sure it does work. I have a version that does work (I have tested it) here. I'm not sure why this wasn't done earlier. It would make the welcomes more friendly. (test can be found here)--Unionhawk ^Talk 01:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that if someone forgets to subst the template, they get this -SCEhardT 03:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Username

{{editprotected}}

Please change {{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[user talk:{{{1}}}|my talk page]]|my talk page}} to <includeonly>[[User talk:{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}|</includeonly>my talk page<includeonly>]]</includeonly> so that the user doesn't have to add a seperate parameter {{{1}}}. MC10 | Sign here! 04:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't work if the template is not subst'ed, see discussions above. Kusma (talk) 06:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Title

This might well be a really stupid question- templates aren't my area! I use this template a lot and see it around a lot of the time, however, it sits at the top of the talk page, above the contents and will only move if it's deleted. This could be easily solved by having it create a new section- ie starting off with =Welcome=... Hello, Joe Bloggs, welcome to wikipedia...... this way it's part of a section and so can be archived and whatnot. Apologies again for the density (and lack of templateish know- how) of my question! HJMitchell You rang? 23:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

See {{Welcome2}} for what you want. Cheers, MC10 | Sign here! 02:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

GandalftheWise's Template

here is a Welcome template I created. Would someone create a red border (5px) and the background black, with white letters?

Welcome to Wikipedia Welcome!

Hello, I've noticed that you have just joined Wikipedia, so I just wanted to drop in and say hello. My name is GandalftheWise and I have been a user since March 20, 2009. I also wanted to give you some pointers.

Starting Off

• Five Pillars of Wikipedia- A good place to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's main goals.
• Policies and Guidelines- Please read all the rules. I didn't and screwed up on a technicality.
• Creating an Article and Editing- This gives you some tips on how to make articles and how basic editing skills.

More Help

If you need any more help, just put the template {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask a question after it orask me a question, because I would be more than happy to answer them. Once again, I hope you enjoy Wikipedia and decide to stay. Cheers!

GandalftheWise : Talk Page 20:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Check out User:GandalftheWise/welcome (use {{subst:User:GandalftheWise/welcome}}) -SCEhardT 21:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Video tutorials

Wikipedia talk:Instructional material/MediaWiki training videos this should be in all the {{Welcome}} templates. 20:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Problems when username begins with a semicolon

Resolved

This probably won't happen very often, and in this case the user isn't off to a good start - but here you can see evidence of what happens when using this template to welcome a user whose name begins with a semicolon.    7   ^{talk | Δ |}   07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Also posted to Template Talk:BASEPAGENAME    7   ^{talk | Δ |}   08:05, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

OK - actually the problems not resolved but Amalthea just let me know this is already in bugzilla. Closed my own comment.    7   ^{talk | Δ |}   09:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

BASEPAGENAME needs to be substed

This template uses {{BASEPAGENAME}}, but it doesn't subst it (if we subst it then in the code on the user's talk page we will end up with their name, rather than {{BASEPAGENAME}}. To add the subst in it should be surrounded by includeonly tags. So it should look like this: {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>BASEPAGENAME}}. Cheers - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 11:37, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

{{Welcome}} is the generic welcome template that should work both when transcluded and when subst'ed. Your suggestion doesn't work when transcluded. (This has been discussed several times already on this talk page). Kusma (talk) 11:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, missed that. So isn't there some template (something like #If ?) that allows us to check if x equals y, and what to display if it does or doesn't. So in the case where {{subst:BASEPAGENAME}} is equal to "Welcome" (as it is on this page) we could make it use it without substing, and if it is not equal to "Welcome", use substing? Correct? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 11:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that works: The user talk page's BASEPAGENAME is the same no matter whether the template is subst'ed or not. Even if we could, the output on a user talk page would probably look like garbage to an uneducated reader (and this template is designed to be placed on beginner pages, and not overwhelm them with code). We would need <substonly> and <nosubst> or similar as magic words to really fix this problem. Kusma (talk) 11:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Hum, I don't believe that #if allows you to use substed templates anyway. It's a shame we don't have those magic words you suggested. Ah well, I guess it's always possible to use different welcome templates. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 12:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

This template isn't working

I just used this template on a new user's talk page and it's not working. What's going on? Can someone fix it? Fast? Michael Hardy (talk) 04:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC) (See User talk:Guygurari.) Michael Hardy (talk) 04:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

 Fixed You were using {{welcom}}, rather than {{welcome}} - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 04:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Michael Hardy (talk) 04:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:WIZ2

I'd like to include a reference to WP:WIZ2 (Article Wizard2). Any objections, or thoughts on how? Could be a boxout, like this.

You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles. See the Article Wizard.

Thank you.

Or else just the text added somewhere; perhaps in brackets after How to write a great article. Rd232 ^talk 19:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

little hand thingy

I realize this is the most basic welcome template and is deliberately simple, which is why I prefer it. However, I think it would "pop" better on the page with an icon on it. I often add it manually, but I was wondering if anyone would object to it just being added. What I'm talking about looks like this:

Welcome!

Hello, Welcome, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome!

• Not much of a change, but I think it's more inviting and welcoming this way. Any objections? Beeblebrox (talk) 23:38, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I never understood the need to plaster everything with little icons, so yes. I do object. Just keep it simple. Garion96 (talk) 07:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The idea is to give it contrast to the other types of messages new users often receive, which have big red warning signs on them, but in any event I can keep adding it manually. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Please add something

Please add the sentence "Don't know which article to create? Then check out requested articles, requested lists or missing encyclopedia articles." to better new users about English Wikipedia's missing articles. Also the template should have more graphics to make it more eye-pleasing.--RekishiEJ (talk) 10:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

 Nice idea to include a link to WP:RA, I'd endorse that, however I don't agree with adding any graphics, it's supposed to be simple. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 23:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Editprotected

{{editprotected}}

• It might be worthwhile to add a link to Wikipedia:New contributors' help page somewhere in there. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 23:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Where would you suggest to put it ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

You could just add it under the bulleted link to the Manual of Style if you can't think of anywhere else it might fit better. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 21:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure we should clutter this with more links. There are more than a few other welcome templates that include a plethora of links that overwhelm new users. If someone actually goes to the trouble to read the documentation we link to already they will be quite well informed as newcomers go. There is already a link to WP:Questions that points to that page. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 03:20, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

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