User:Fvw/TalkArchive/14

This page has been archived, please do not edit it. New talk and comments on this talk go on my talk page.

Please Help

please help, please undo what DreamGuy reinserted in the Otherkina rticle, he does tihs without discussion, which cannot be allowed, and pursues a defamitory adgenda in the article, which is one of the main points of his arbitration. please remove what he inserted.Gimmiet 04:00, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Adding a relevant see-also isn't defamatory, and not every edit requires discussion first. If even a minor addition to this topic causes you such distress, you may want to consider taking the article off your watchlist and editing articles on a different topic instead. --fvw* 04:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

The See Also is not relevent, this has been shown over and over, and yet he adds it again. it is defamitory to attempt to classify this subculture as " definatly n utcases" which hes attempting to do. again i ask, please help.Gimmiet 04:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Fine

[1] According to that link you were blocked for a 3RR violation; a situation I have yet to find myself in. You as I, are capable of errors. How would you feel if I decided to turn votes against you because of a single incident as that one. Unlike you, I have common sense to know that one single err is not a reason to reject a user. Don't expect me to kiss your ass and think you are right in this. Ignore my comments, fine, but you have - and probably will always have - a powerful enemy in me. Molotov (talk) 04:11, 5 October 2005 (UTC)(Insert evil laugh, cue lightning.)

This is the most melodramatic comment I have yet seen on a Talk page. I'd swear it was joke. --PhilipO 04:33, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry but what was the point of the above and why do you dislike fvw so much? Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 04:20, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Lack of discretion; and apparently a disregard of reality: i.e. s/he makes mistakes like anybody else. S/he won't even bother to answer my statement...because I am telling the truth. I will not be tortured by vandals and stand back and be nice to them; it may cost me adminship - but I don't care...Why would I want to be grouped with people like this. If the world was filled with people like Fvw I would kill myself. Molotov (talk) 04:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

S/he said they were fine with criticism...so at this point I am sp(h)itting it out. Molotov (talk) 04:31, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Open Proxy? 150.176.239.178

Thanks for catching that. I saw that the reverse dns appeared to indicate that it was a proxy server for some sort of institution, and was hesitant to block it, however, sorbs and other sources confirmed it to be an open proxy, as recently as june. You're right though, I just tried the proxy and it seems they have added authentication of some sort. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 18:36, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, and to answer your question, yeah of course that's fine. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 19:05, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I noticed this on a driveby of Fvw's talk page and tagged User talk:150.176.239.178 with {{sharedip}}. Just a note to say what I did. No need for a reply. --GraemeL ^(talk) 23:02, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks. --fvw* 23:29, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

The thrill of victory...

You are, if there was any doubt before it is gone now, cool. - brenneman^(t)(c) 22:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Greatest compliment ever

From the above conversation, seriously consider archiving the following snippet.

If the world was filled with people like Fvw I would kill myself. Molotov  (talk)  04:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Awesome. Regards, CHAIRBOY (☎) 00:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Master Chief?

I recently posted an article about the voice actor Steve Downes (voice of Master Chief, Halo). To my surprise, not 10 minutes after I posted it, you deleted it. Why so? The only description I am given is "deleteagain." Either please explain to me what "deleteagain" means or if this means nothing, please explain why my article was insufficient. Thank you, PoopDog, Oct. 5, 2005 8:30 PM

The article was deleted on the grounds that its subject wasn't notable (in fact, it was deleted as non-notable twice). If you want to resurrect the article, you should bring it to Votes for undeletion. Be sure to specify what has changed since the last time it was deleted to make him notable now. --fvw* 00:49, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Saint Francis High School vandal

Hi, Fvw. I've been keeping an eye on this editor, too. When they persisted after your final warning, I blocked them for 48 hours - is this long enough? - too long? (I'm an as-yet-inexperienced admin.) You may be aware that they have also threatened further attacks on another IP address - I suspect this is just bluster, but perhaps we should keep an eye out. Regards. --RobertG ♬ talk 08:59, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

48 hours is fine; I would have probably gone for 24, in most cases you only have to block for the length of their attention span which generally isn't all that long. They're on a pac bell dynamic IP so they can easily get a fresh IP, as indeed they did after the block. I've vprotected the page instead. --fvw* 13:15, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Posting my thanks here, as well as on RobertG's talk page. I appreciate the help, and hopefully as you say, the vprotect will outlast their attention span. Cheers. Peruvianllama 16:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

nobody

Excuse my ignorance, but is RfD where i send this? And what do I actually tag, I can't seem to find the page. --Doc (?) 09:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

You tag template:nobody (clicking that link will redirect you, but right under "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" it'll say "(Redirected from wherever)". If you click the wherever in that you'll end up on the redirect page. Add the {{Rfd}} tag and follow the listing instructions on WP:RfD. Let me know if I haven't made everything clear. --fvw* 13:18, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Very clear, and I don't know how I missed it. Now done - thanks. --Doc (?) 13:34, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

no place for fiction?

May I remind you that you contradict youself. Previously, you said that an article on the book needs to be added to wikipedia, and only then the reference link can be displayed on the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan page...

No, I said the link belongs in an article about the book. --fvw* 14:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

In that case, you should have left the title of the book and removed the external link on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan page. The fact that you removed the title again makes me assume that you have some prejudice towards the subject, do not recognise that right to voice a different opinion and thus cannot be trusted to operate objectivley.

NPA

Which I am not violating, thank you very much. Agriculture 15:03, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

"Morons" isn't commonly used as a term of affection. --fvw* 15:06, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Banter on my talk page. Agriculture 15:11, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

Thank you very much for your support on my nomination for adminship. Now that I have been made an admin, I will do my best to live up to the truest you and the community have placed in me. If you ever see my doing something you think is incorrect or questionable, or does not live up to the standards that should be expected of an admin, please let me know. And I will try to be extra carful about speedy deletes. DES ^(talk) 16:02, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia stuff

I understand that you find it important to warn people about "NPA" but you are only adding fuel to the fire...it is upseting users, not resolving the problem. Sorry about the "comments" earlier, but I do think your discretion on Wikipedia needs some work. One incident is not a reason to oppose anyone, nor are your attempts to resolve conflicts. I am pretty sure you have made mistakes in the past on this site, stop trying to point out those of others without looking in the mirror to see what you may do wrong. Molotov (talk) 02:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

NPA is not optional; I point it out when people break our rules, and I'd hope anybody would do the same if they noticed me breaking the rules. --fvw* 03:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Whatever, it makes me fortify my earlier statements. Molotov (talk) 05:08, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

I always wondered what you call those things. Seriously, though, thanks for helping to hopefully prevent a repeat of last year's disaster. I've got the page watchlisted just in case anybody has a problem with it. --Michael Snow 04:14, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

My talk page

Please don't revert things without checking them first. Thanks, Alphax ^τεχ 06:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

It was an edit by banned user skyring, they're freely revertable. If you prefer I don't revert anything on your talk page in future I'd be happy to oblige though. --fvw* 06:17, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't blame you for what you are trying to do, but I do find fault in your methods. Molotov (talk) 06:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd prefer it if you don't, I prefer to leave comments in place (even when they blank my talk page in doing so). Alphax ^τεχ 06:23, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, sure. If I could ask for a favour in return, could you not shared-threadify my talk page? I'll agree it has its charm, but it does sort of stop edit histories and archiving from working properly, not to mention the new message banner. I reply to people's talk on their talk page usually anyway, so if you make a shared thread there it'll end up in your shared threads too if you want. --fvw* 06:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Alrighty then. Alphax ^τεχ 10:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks (Greece)

Thanks. I am at two reverts and logging. I appreciate the quick response. I reverted the anon at a few Macedonian articles too -- they might return to those ones. Jkelly 06:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Rollins A. Emerson

Aparently you repeatedly reverted an anon's spelling corrections to this article. Could you please explain what's going on? - Mgm|^(talk) 11:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Heya, that was a blanket revert of banned user skyring. If you'd like to vet and take responsibility for them that'd be fine, and probably worthwhile. --fvw* 21:07, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

• Fine, I take responsibility for them. - Mgm|^(talk) 22:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Pure wiki deletion system

I see that you are a supporter of a pure wiki deletion system; we've moved the proposal page from meta to Wikipedia:Pure wiki deletion system, and are looking for supporters to sign the page, as well as help in writing the code and working out the policy changes needed. Join us! JesseW, the juggling janitor 07:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, I used to be. Lately I've been having my doubts about the viability of pure wiki article modification for articles during disputes (though I still think it's a wonderful system in non-dispute situations), so I'm not all that sure I'm still a pure wiki deletion proponent. I'll keep an eye on the page and join in the discussion though, thanks. --fvw* 15:14, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration

This is to advise you that a Request for Arbitration has been filed against you by an anonymous user, who seems unable or unwilling to inform you themselves. The details can be found at WP:Arb#67.177.35.25_vs.__Fvw.2C__Pgk.2C__Exabit.2C__Kebron.2C__Lulu_of_the_Lotus-Eaters.2C_Mjpieters.2C_and__Redwolf24. Rob Church ^{Talk | FAD} 22:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I need to ask something.

I have noticed in the United States Military article there is no list of weapons.

I would like to add a list if that's alright.

- Lythian

It might be a bit too specific for the general article on the US military, we shouldn't cram in every last detail into a single article. Have a look at the articles in Category:Lists of weapons though, a few pages there (like List of weapons of the U.S. Marine Corps) might be what you're looking for. If the list you're looking for doesn't exist yet it's probably a good idea to model it after the lists in that category. Good luck! --fvw* 13:08, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Some of those lists contain more detailed lists, e.g. List of missiles contains List of missiles by nation which has a list of missiles used by the UnitedStates. --GraemeL ^(talk) 13:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

User talk:216.229.211.243

Gah! I tried to save a warning to this page three times and got the preview changes bug. When it finally went through, I edit conflicted with you. :-P --GraemeL ^(talk) 14:02, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Hehe, and then I went back and toned it down a little, all blissfully unaware you were trying to edit it. Serves you right for stalking me. --fvw* 14:08, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Boundary

You wrote: Delete, even the 5k boundary is ridiculously low. --fvw* 13:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, sure. 5k is indeed low. But do you honestly believe that 500k readers doesn't qualify for notability?! (which is what I have, and discuss in the AfD). I guess you're welcome to vote that way, but it's just plain weird. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 15:25, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I see only a 250k figure, but considering that's just the number of web hits from unique IPs I don't consider that readers, at least not in the same way that number of books sold is. --fvw* 15:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

That 250k number is the unique IPs to gnosis.cx. But nothing is first published at gnosis.cx; it's just the site that I have the server logs for. IBM developerWorks is where the most stuff is first published, and the articles I have published there have most certainly been read by more than 250k distinct human beings (but I don't have the server logs to get exact numbers): it's probably the most popular site for software developers (the other contender being O'Reilly's ONLamp, where I've also published (but fewer articles at the latter). As to eyeballs/IP addresses: the ratio is not obvious. Some people can obviously visit multiple times under a dynamic IP address; but in other cases groups of people at a company with a common gateway can visit but show as the same IP address. I don't know how those two things balance, but in order-of-magnitude terms, it gives the right sense of actual humans.

I just believe this AfD claim (and your vote), is really absurd. If some minor SciFi writer had a novel that sold 1/10th my readership, this wouldn't be a serious question. Or if an indy band had sold records to 1/10th my readership. Or a video game sold to 1/10th my readership (or as Mel Etitis points out: a character in a video game that sold 1/10th my readership). Or a porn actor viewed by 1/10th my readership. But because I am a WP editor as well, people vote to delete the page. Or maybe because most of my publication is in "new media" (i.e. online); I agree that something someone can read for free online should be counted at a somewhat lower ratio than a book, or even magazine, they bought on paper, but it's not like developerWorks (which as a whole, certainly has millions of readers), is some little obscure blog! Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 15:47, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Uncontested deletions

I've just launched my deletion reform proposal at Wikipedia:Deletion reform/Proposals/Uncontested deletions. Any help with publicising this - and getting up a discussion would be appreciated. --Doc (?) 18:45, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Open Proxies

hmm... looks like i may have been a bit hasty. Anyways, those IPs are being used by the Microwave auditory effect/Frey effect vandal who insists that the government is trying to read and control our minds using electromagnetic radiation and what not. I will impose a more suitable block on the IPs used as they are not truly open (even though port 8080 is open on those IPs). Sasquatcht|c 20:07, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for checking. By the way, if you'll forgive my nagging,218.102.21.186 (talk · contribs) and 218.102.23.117 (talk · contribs) are still blocked indefinitely. --fvw* 21:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Yea... i got a phone call, but i'm on it. Sasquatcht|c 22:27, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Unblock

Could u unblock 205.188.116.198 please. I understand vandals were using that IP number but its a AOL Ip number and someout im also stuck with that and I cant edit at all period went to my neighbor computer and I cant stay there for long and u know Im a better contributer than those vandals ;) Ty --JAranda | yeah 01:12, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Sure, but you'll have to tell me the exact block message you're getting, otherwise I can't tell which autoblock it is. You can mail it to me if you want, at fvw.wikipedia@var.cx. --fvw* 01:43, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Please unblock 210.0.201.213 as it is an IP used by me in my workplace. Thank you Hello World! 15:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

That's an easy one, they already closed that proxy down in response to an earlier request. Unblocked. Happy editing! --fvw* 19:52, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

63.197.187.30

[2] You beat me to the punch.  :) I had blocked him 3 minutes prior to you, but became sidetracked before I could deliver the wonderful news to our contributor. Hall Monitor 23:47, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah right, well done. I wish someone would code up "already blocked" warnings for special:blockip, we already check whether the username exists so it shouldn't be that hard.. Oh well, we can dream. --fvw* 23:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of which, does a forum exist for requesting new features? With nearly 5,000 articles now on my watchlist, it would be extremely useful to be able to filter by anonymous IP the same way we can on WP:RC. Taking it another step further, it would also be wonderful to be able to filter by users who have blank user pages on both. Hall Monitor 23:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, there's Wikipedia:Feature request and the mediawiki bugzilla (severity: enhancement), but generally if you want something done you'd better do it yourself. --fvw* 00:00, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, I should have guessed. In any case, I have posted my request at Wikipedia:Feature_request#Hide_logged_in_users_from_Watchlist. Best regards, Hall Monitor 00:05, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Keep in mind that it's probably better not to RC patrol from your watchlist though, as reloading your watchlist eats huge amounts of server power whereas reloading WP:RC is relatively cheap. --fvw* 00:10, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Nlu

Thanks for reverting. --Nlu 15:29, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Furtim

Thanks for the heads-up! I should have been more careful. I apologised to Furtim. Lesson learned. :) --Ashenai (talk) 15:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

IP blocks

Thanks for keeping a cooler head than I. Believe it or not, I welcome criticism and try to learn from it, so don't be shy.  :) I do put blocked pages over on the list; must have had one slip through the cracks. - Lucky 6.9 17:51, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

And thank you for taking suggestions/criticism so gracefully. --fvw* 18:13, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

shrimp farm

I should have known this. I've seen this before. I don't open the main page much lately. mikka (t) 20:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Me neither, I just sort of guess based on what's getting lots of test edits ;-) --fvw* 20:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment from Merkey

Please unlock my talk page. I will not make any more comments about you on this page. But do me a favor. Have another editor deal with my issues. It seems pretty clear you and I don't seem to work well together, and I have a very hard time respecting you based upon some of your conduct. To avoid any further incidents in the future, please forward issues with me to someone else to handle. Please don't get involved with me if you can help it. Also, please honor this request. Anytime you come near me, I tend to get excited. How about honoring my wishes for a change.

Sincerely,

Jeff

You do not get to choose who handles your policy violations. Behave yourself and you won't have to deal with me at all. You talk page had already been unblocked. --fvw* 21:00, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

We need to go to the Arbitration Committee then and I need to request Arbcom sanctions placed on you to keep you away from me. You committ 3RR violations and other actions I consider abuses. Do I need to take this step, or will you simply honor my wishes and can we part ways civily? 67.137.28.187 21:04, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

vandal bot

ok, i tried 3 diff ways, but can't block this one User:Wi3*NaKt6?2!. there are a few more like this. ∞Who?¿? 21:13, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that one was a pain. Don't know if someone fixed mediawiki but I got him now. --fvw* 21:18, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Mike Church is back

I see you've dealt with User: Mike Church before. He's back, as User:Flaming Cow, and still promoting himself and making personal attacks. Right now he's trying to stick his own rules into the Gin rummy article, and making edit comments that are either nonsense or attacks. Would you like to help? RSpeer 05:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

He's late. Sure, I'll go have a look, thanks for the heads up. --fvw* 11:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Oi!

What's going on with my Saint Christina she's only been live 5 minutes, I've never heard her called "on wheels" either, and I'm Sicilian too! Thanks for the revert, I was only filling in a red link for an architectural page, I know nothing much about the unfortunate woman - please expand of yo care too! Regards Giano | talk 11:56, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Hehe, that's just one of our regular vandals being a nuisance, you can ignore it, it's pretty high-visibility so it always gets reverted quickly. Thanks for the article, and happy editing! --fvw* 11:58, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• Ah, I see, not being of a hugely religious disposition, I though perhaps poor old Saint Christina was associated with wheels like the Catherine wheel, good job you knew better, I would have left her on wheels! Poor woman seems to have had a terrible life, as it was. Giano | talk 12:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Block

Yes it was 216.70.13.130. I may have mis-typed. I saw your block on IRC a few seconds after I posted at WP:AIV. Thanks. ≈ jossi fresco ≈ 20:09, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

67.68.218.234

This annon 67.68.218.234 all his edits are vandalism and was warned more than 3 times and still won't stop vandalism. Could you deal with it. Ty --JAranda | watz sup 22:07, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

He does seem to be having a little problem with neutrality, but I wouldn't call his last edit vandalism. I've posted a hint about neutrality to his talk page, let me know if he continues. --fvw* 22:11, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

He just vandalised my user page saying junk that annon user. --JAranda | watz sup 22:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope, that was 70.81.136.241 (whom I've blocked). --fvw* 22:18, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Chancellor of Germany II: Foreign Office (Germany)

Thanks for doing what needed to be done on 3RR: User:Varizer, User:Miroslawa and User:212.185.62.98 at Chancellor of Germany [3]. Another project from 212.185.62.98, the same piece of revisionism on Foreign Office (Germany) has been taken up with suspicious haste by User:216.253.3.108. Some questions, if you are interested:

• Might either of these IP addresses be the same as that/those used by User:Miroslawa?
• Another of 212.185.62.98's projects was at National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD), namely putting in a discredited Soviet estimate for the dead of the WWII Dresden bombing. This is a favourite of right-wing extremists in Germany, who like to claim a moral equivalence between that and the Shoah. This edit has appeared with tiresome regularity over the past year, with a series of different IP addresses. Is there any way to find out if these might come from the same source? I have beautiful dreams of IP bans quickly following these edits...

Thanks --- Charles Stewart 01:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope, not at the moment. But I'll keep an eye on the lot. --fvw* 17:18, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Good, thanks. Next time the Soviet estimate appears on NPD, I'll put together some sort of report. --- Charles Stewart 19:21, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Look familiar?

This user was recently created...User:Haephestus. I seem to recall another user with a similar name somewhere, but I have forgotten. Do you think it's okay to leave this account alone? --HappyCamper 02:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

It is pretty close to User:Hephaestos, but as long as they're not up to any mischief, let's assume good faith. --fvw* 17:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Toolserver

I believe, and I should well inform you, about the m:Toolserver, if I haven't already. --AllyUnion (talk) 09:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Did mention there will be access to the database? --AllyUnion (talk) 09:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup, you did actually. And I'm still salivating at the thought of near-live database reads, but on the other hand I still haven't got any concrete plans of what to do with it so I don't really have the need just yet. Thanks for the suggestion though. --fvw* 17:26, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah, the penny drops, I see what you're getting at now. Yeah, I suppose if the proposal fails and toolserver really gets that part of the database too, I'll be signing up. --fvw* 17:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

WP:RFM Opened on you

Fvw, please stay away from that page about you until I have completed it. I have opened an WP:RFM to RedWolf24 with a request you be asked to stay away from WP:AB issues until I have completed writing about you and your activities.

Thanks.

67.137.28.187 18:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I totally agree. We don't want your thoughts on autobiography policy Fvw. You rouge admin! ;-) --GraemeL ^(talk) 19:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear GraemeL. Ma-hi-ya-sqa sends her blessing unto you for your words here. 67.137.28.187 20:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

The trouble with using sarcasm is when you can't tell if it's being used back. :-( --GraemeL ^(talk) 20:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Oops

Soory about that, I was on the wrong page. Thanks. Feel free to delete it.Gator1 20:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

User:Βικιπαίδεια είναι κομουνισμός

Howdy. I unblocked this user to impose an indefinite block without realizing that the block you used in the first place was also indefinite. I was confused by the {{test5}} message you left, which says "temporary" block, but I should have checked the logs. Anyway, just a heads-up. android79 20:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Oops, my mistake, thanks for the cleanup. --fvw* 20:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)