User:King of Hearts/Admin coaching/AfD/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Kenny (2nd nomination)

David Kenny

non-notable subject MoyrossLADY (talk) 01:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

This article appears to be written by the subject.

The subject appears to be a journalist and author. He writes a weekly column for an Irish sunday newspaper and has written three humorous Irish books (all ranking past the 1 millionth bestseller mark on Amazon).

Comment - His 3 books were all bestsellers in Ireland. Snappy (talk) 23:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

He does not qualify for notability per WP:AUTHOR

He does not fulfil any of the following:

The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors.
The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique.
The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.
The person's work either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.

I don't mean to hurt the feelings of the subject but he appears to be just an average guy doing a job and non-notable. MoyrossLADY (talk) 01:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- -- Cirt (talk) 10:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Keep - Published author, journalist for national newspaper, panelist on RTE, lots of ghits, make him notable. His books: The Little Buke of Dublin (Or How To Be A Real Dub), Erindipity - The Irish Miscellany and Erindipity Rides Again were all Bestsellers in Ireland. He meets Wikipedia:Notability (people) guidelines, which states:- "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." What the nominator has quoted from WP:Author are additional criteria, which also states that: "People are generally notable if they meet any of the following standards. Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. A person who fails to meet these additional criteria may still be notable under Wikipedia:Notability." He may fail to met the Author criteria but still meets general notability guidelines. No evidence that the article is self authored. Snappy (talk) 23:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I accept your point that the WP:AUTHOR criteria I listed above are additional and not required. However, I'm still not seeing notability. Is there a source indicating that the books were bestsellers? Can you link to some ghits? When I search for David Kenny I find results for others of the same name. I don't think he has had more than one TV appearance and that was as a commentator not as the subject of a programme. Journalist for national newspaper doesn't make him notable unless he was award winning or the subject of commentary by others. We need sources that have David Kenny as their subject matter - not articles written by him. Yes there are a couple of reviews of his Xmas miscellany books : are any of these from outside his own insolvent newspaper or its sister titles? MoyrossLADY (talk) 11:59, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Snappy, I don't see the point you've just tried to make, could you clarify? You mentioned the two published works of the author and then you quoted "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources ". The published works are primary sources of the author and the author is not the subject of the works either. WP:N also states notabiltiy is not inherited. Simply because the books are notable doesn't make the author notable. What exactly were you trying to say?--v/r - T P 13:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Why is a bestselling author not considered notable? Link here. In addition he is a newspaper columnist of a national Sunday newspaper (its current status being irrelevant) and a Dublin evening paper (Herald). Snappy (talk) 19:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Because notability is WP:NOTINHERITED and because WP:AUTHOR doesn't include "Best Selling" as a criteria. Neither does WP:GNG or WP:BIO.--v/r - T P 21:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure we're there yet. For two weeks, one of his books reached number 5 bestselling paperback non-fiction book in Ireland 10 years ago. [1]. Is there any evidence that either of his two other books is bestselling (I have looked and can't find evidence other than assertion by the author)? Is being a columnist on a national newspaper notable? Maybe it is. I've just had a look at this: [2] which has a lot of entries for what I would have thought were non-notables. MoyrossLADY (talk) 22:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Even if notability could be inherited, his book is non-notable per WP:NBOOK MoyrossLADY (talk) 22:31, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

He meets WP:GNG guidelines. Snappy (talk) 18:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

How? You haven't demonstrated it. "His 3 books were all bestsellers in Ireland."? Where in the criteria is "best seller"? I already pointed you to WP:NOTINHERITED. Just because the books are best sellers doesn't mean he is notable. Where is the multiple significant independent coverage? How does he pass WP:GNG?--v/r - T P 18:24, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Delete No demonstrated notability per policy as I've explained above.--v/r - T P 18:24, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

keep - basically meets Wikipedia:Notability (people).--BabbaQ (talk) 15:15, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
How? It clearly fails the basic criteria of Wikipedia:Notability (people). As far as WP:AUTHOR it fails all criteria there as well. Could you explain?--v/r - T P 23:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
'weak' keep Only because I'm unsure how this impacts on policy, but inclined to agree with above poster. Read Erindipity, liked it, would like to know more about the author and his other work in whatever medium. RashersTierney (talk) 01:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
That a WP:ILIKEIT !vote.--v/r - T P 23:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Keep: per Snappy. Meets Wikipedia:Notability (people) - Ret.Prof (talk) 04:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
He is the author of a book that reached number 5 in the non-fiction bestseller charts 10 years ago in Ireland for 2 weeks. His other books did not rank. This does not make him a notable author. There are no references published about David Kenny. Why not? Because he is not notable. There are a couple of review of his books but only by his own newspaper or its sister titles. His ghits are due to the fact that he is a columnist so his name appears at the end of his writing about other notable things. There is a reference saying he has appeared on TV as a panelist but we don't know if this was more than once. I took the time to look through the TV archives at RTE player and I haven't found him once. He had a weekly opinion column for a newspaper that is no longer printed. MoyrossLADY (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Keep - per ret.prof--BabbaQ (talk) 16:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)