User:Razorlax/sandbox

Summary: Problem with the current Leeds article: Breaking All Core Polices

• Summary Paragraph: Leeds, in common and official usage means the city of Leeds, however the current Leeds page defines the word "Leeds" on a virtually unused subdivision that is based on a historic county borough that no longer exists. This is against what newpapers, the government, official sources, encylopedias, the media, and 99.6% of google instances say. When scores of editors over the years have made an attempt to change the content and address the confusion, it is reverted. When asked why it is reverted, it is said "because 'Leeds' does not mean the city of Leeds". When asked to prove this or provide a single reliable source to back up the leading paragraph, they cant, but insist the status quo should remain despite an overwhelming wealth of evidence showing the current Leeds page is minority point of view and original research, and without a verifiable source to back up the lede.

In Depth: Problem with the current Leeds article: Breaking All Core Polices

• The word "Leeds" in common and official usage means the city of Leeds (pop. 750,000). However, the current Leeds page, rather than giving information about the city (something people will be expecting to find), it instead gives minority POV and suggests "Leeds has a population of 443,247 and is the urban core of the wider City of Leeds" whilst failing to give a reliable source to back this up. This is also despite 99% of sources suggesting Leeds in common, popular, and offical usage means the City of Leeds. This minority POV has "Leeds" defined on the historical county borough of Leeds that no longer exists other than as an ONS statistical construct called 'leeds urban sub-division', which in widely accepted and offical usage is not the same 'Leeds'.
• Any change to end years of confusion and to make the article adhere to core policies and be about the whole city is opposed by some editors. The reason given is that they personally believe that "Leeds" does not mean the whole city. This is despite the fact that (1) not a single reliable source (that doesnt constitute original research and/or NPOV) has been forthcoming for 4 years, and (2) all the evidence showing that the current page breaks the core policies and reflects minority POV has not been refuted by those editors opposing a change.
• Those against any change say no change can be made without consensus - even though those against change are unable to refute the current page's core-policy-breaches, something a change would instantly address and resolve. Moreover, non-involved administrators say minority POV cannot take precedence over the core policies - yet it is here!

Evidence for Non-Change

Evidence to support the notion that Leeds is *not* City of Leeds, but is instead the administrative core of City of Leeds
notion	evidence	rebuttal of evidence
generic	ONS 'leeds urban-subdivision'. The leeds urban subdivision is 443,247, therefore the page "Leeds" should be defined by this subdivision.	(1) When not specifically refering to "leeds urban subdivision", whenever ONS refer to just "Leeds" (the same name as the wiki page Leeds they are always refering to the city, not a subdivision of leeds.[1][2]. Thus to adhere to NPOV, NOR, V, if a wiki page is going to discuss the area defined by 'leeds urban subdivison', that page must be called leeds urban subdivision not misleadingley called leeds, which when ONS use they are reffering to the official city boundary. (2) "Leeds" is officially and widely accepted to mean the city of Leeds, not a virtually unused statistical construct mapped on historic boundaries that no longer exist. As such, defining "Leeds" on this subdivision constitutes original research and breaches neutral point of view given that it is a minority view point. Even ONS themselves, when refering to "Leeds" do not mean the subdivision [3] (3) Moreover, while there is an existance of this urban-subdivision, there is no source that shows that "Leeds" means "leeds urban subdivision", and even if one was found, presenting Leeds to mean 'leeds urban-subdivision' would still conflict with Neutral Point of View, given that it would still be a minority interpretation of the word Leeds.
generic	Articles that say for example "Morley, near Leeds" show that Leeds means the urban subdivision, not the City of Leeds.	This is standard contextual referencing. There are example references of "Headingley near Leeds" even though Headingley is well within the leeds urban-subdivision, or "Didsbury near Manchester" even though Didsbury is well within the manchester. Thus such a test has little use. Moreover, there are double the google hits for "morley in leeds" and the same applies for even the most outlying distinct town in Leeds, eg "wetherby in leeds" returns 1840 ghits whilst "wetherby near leeds" returns only 572 ghits.
still No Reliable Sources to back up the lede "Leeds is the urban core and administrative centre of the wider metropolitan borough of the City of Leeds"
still No Reliable Source to suggest that the word "Leeds" means 'Leeds urban subdivision' and not "city of Leeds"

Evidence that Leeds means the city of Leeds not a subdivision

Evidence, as per WP:Naming_Conflict, and as per WP:Widely_Accepted_Name

As can be seen unanimously, Leeds does infact mean the city of Leeds, be it officially from the governmet, independent international bodies like EuroStat, newpapers, the internert, and encyclopedias. How Leeds ever came to mean anything other than the city is beyond many editors who have been strongly trying to change the status quo for years.

Encyclopedia showing that the word "Leeds" infact means the whole city
Encylopedia Britannica	"Leeds - City and metropolitan borough (pop., 2001: 715,404)"
Dictionary.com	"Leeds - City in West Yorkshire, in N England. 749,000"
Encarta	"Leeds...a city in West Yorkshire...population 715,500"
Yourdictionary.com	"Leeds - City in N England, pop. 681,000" (681,000 refers to old 1991 ONS mid year estimate)
Websters Dictionary	"Leeds - City N England in West Yorkshire population 674,400" (675,400 refers to old 1991 ONS data)
Columbia	"Leeds - City and metropolitan district (1991 pop. 445,242)"
Government & Official examples showing that the word "Leeds" means the whole city
YorkshireForward Government RDA	"Leeds - With a population of around 750,000, Leeds is the economic capital of Yorkshire & Humber"
EuroStat (Official EU Stats Dept.)	"Leeds - the city of Leeds is the capital of the region with a population of 715,000. Leeds hosts the 2nd largest manufacturing sector outside London"
ONS (official UK Stats Dept.)	Leeds - population 715,404 (nb The ONS understanding of "Leeds" is the city, pop 715k. This is not the same as "Leeds urban subdivision").
NHS Leeds	"...to provide health support to local Leeds population numbering around 750,000."
Parliament (eg MP Mark Hunter)	"There are 750,000 people in the UK who have diabetes - the equivalent to the entire population of Leeds"
News, Media, and Info source examples showing that the word "Leeds" means the whole city
Leeds College Art and Design	"Leeds is a fantastic city with a population of around 750,000"
Leeds Uni	"Why Leeds? Leeds is an exciting, cosmopolitan, affordable city offering a population of 750,000 people."
BBC	"The population of Leeds is 715,404"
The Independent	"Leeds...population 750,000"
The Guardian	"Leeds - population 719,000"
CNN	"Leeds - a west yorkshire city"
Mirfield Reporter	"It expelled the 750,000 (same population as Leeds) Palestinians..."
Targetjobs.co.uk	Graduate Carrrers - "Leeds has always been a thriving industrial city,...with a population of 750,000"
Thorsby Society	A Brief History Of Leeds - "In 1974 Leeds became a metropolitan district with a population of 730,000."
Travel Magazine	Destination England - "Although Leeds has a population of around 750,000, it is a compact city."
Evidence of Google Hits (as per WP:Widely_Accepted_Name) showing that "Leeds" means the entire city (population 750,000), and not the ons-subdivision (population 443,247) as the WP page Leeds inorrectly suggests
GoogleHits "Leeds" means subdivision?	exists on the web 59 times (0.32% of instances!) NB: The "-wikipedia" is to omit any search instances that are from wikipedia itself. The "-leeds urban area" and "-subdivision" are to omit any pages that contain those words. Why? Because we are looking at the interpretation of the word "Leeds" and whether this word on its own, refers to the whole city (750,000 pop.), or does it refer to a short hand for the "subdvision" or "leeds urban area" (443,247 pop.) as the WP page Leeds suggests
GoogleHits "Leeds" means whole city?	exists on the web 18,300 times (99.68% of instances!) the google phrases "+leeds +population +750000" -"city of leeds" -"metropolitan district" are used as we want to find out when the word "Leeds" means the whole city (pop 750,000) when not specifically being referred to as City of Leeds, or Metropolitan District in anyway, but just "Leeds".

Example new lede for Leeds that would resolve all core policy issues and resolve all confusion

Leeds () is a city and metropolitan borough in West Yorkshire, England. Leeds was awarded city status in 1893 and has a population of (2022). Leeds is the cultural, financial, and commercial heart of the wider West Yorkshire Urban Area, which has a population of 1.5 million (2001 Census). The Leeds city region, which includes this urban area as well the surrounding towns and settlements economically linked with Leeds, has a population of 2.9 million. Leeds is part of the third most populous Larger Urban Zone (LUZ) in the UK with an estimated population in the 2004 Urban Audit of 2.4 million

Once a part of the West Riding of Yorkshire, the recorded history of Leeds can be traced to the 5th century when the Kingdom of Elmet was covered by the forest of "Loidis", the origin of the name Leeds. During the Industrial Revolution, Leeds developed into a major industrial centre for the production and trade of wool, before emerging as a centre for commerce and higher education, being the location of the internationally acclaimed University of Leeds, Leeds Metropolitan University and Leeds Trinity and All Saints. Today Leeds is the largest business, financial and legal centre outside London, and is also one of the fastest growing cities in the UK.

The historic urban core and administrative centre that lies at the heart of Leeds, had a subdivision population of 443,247 (2001 UK census), and sometimes "Leeds" is used to refer to just this historic core, which excludes the wider city and contiguous urban and suburban areas that became a part of the city in 1974, such as Horsforth, and Pudsey, as well as the rural element of the city that contains small outlying towns such as Otley and Wetherby.