User:Sm8900/Archive4

Mideast article discussions

Schechtman

Dear Sm8900,
I would appreciate it if you would not describe Joseph Schechtman as a "hate source" and claim that "many zionists are hate sources" as you did in this edit. I don't believe Schechtman is a hate source or that very many Zionist historians are hate sources (at least no reliable Zionist historians are) and I doubt that you believe this too. Even User:JaapBoBo doesn't seem to use this ridiculous line of reasoning. The only person who says that Schechtman is User:PalestineRemembered. You may not know this because you entered the debate rather recently, but PalestineRemembered has repeatedly compared Schechtman's research to the pseudo-scholarship of David Irving, the infamous British Holocaust denier. I have told PalestineRemembered that his argument is weak and that his comparison is offensive, but he continues to do it to bait me, and I try hard not to fall for it. Your statement here makes things more difficult for me and for Wikipedia than I'm sure you intended. I understand and respect your spirit of compromise, but that doesn't mean compromising the truth by accepting lies. Thank you. --GHcool 04:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

When GHcool refers to Schechtman's research, he's thinking of his work for the Transfer Committee's, who surveyed Arab holdings in Palestine (which crops grew, which buildings useful etc) ready for the time when they could be seized. Some of the Zionists may have felt "them or us" after the Holocaust, but Schechtman was working on this earlier, and he seems to have specialised in preaching fear and hatred of the Arabs. His background in the transfer (now we know what he did) is such that nobody would treat him as a reliable historian any more, and Childers (apparently?) claims that many of his sources were completely invented. PR^talk 17:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe that Sm8900 is smart enough to look at Joseph Schechtman's life and bibliography on Wikipedia or any other source and decide for himself whether he is a hate source on the level of David Irving or not. --GHcool 17:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe your position is defendable. Schechtman's bio and other links suggest he's less of an historian than Irving. And the very clip we've been using suggests he's a hate-source worse than Irving. PR^talk 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I said it once and I'll say it again: Sm8900 is smart enough to look at Joseph Schechtman's life and bibliography on Wikipedia or any other source and decide for himself whether he is a hate source on the level of David Irving or not. PalestineRemembered is entitled to his own opinion just as Sm8900 is entitled to his own opinion. I am also entitled to criticize PalestineRemembered's opinion or ask Sm8900 to clarify his opinion before cricizing it. A 3rd party that tells me what Sm8900's opinion is (or worse, tells Sm8900 what his own opinion is) shows that he is desperate for approval and shows that he is fearful that he is incorrect. I trust Sm8900 and Sm8900 alone when it comes to matters of Sm8900's own opinion. --GHcool 04:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. thanks for the comments from both of you. I do appreciate it, and I enjoy a good exchange, whether on my own talk page or elsewhere. In answer let me say I actually have no idea whether Schectman is a hate source. In fact I am quite sure he is not. I do not know what relevance that label could have here, but it sounds like he is simply an extremist at the most, if anything. In this conflict, there are many credible sources who might have extreme views. What about the many Palestinians who believe that Israel is a colonialist imposition which should never have been created? In effect, aren't they saying that Israel has no right to exist? does that make them a hate source? If it doesn't, then they too are extremists.

So my point here is that we cannot exclude the experts of one side based on criteria which are not applied to all sides. And PR, GHcool is clearly a credible good-faith editor. He is clearly not trying to finding a myriad of extreme issues to raise in order to disrupt the process; he is merely trying to include this one source. We need to start trying to give each other benefit of the doubt, and learning to compromise. i believe that Schectman should be included. I have little else to say on this matter, and will allow you and others to continue to offer most of the comments on this issue. thanks.

By the way, one final note, GHCool; I don't think PR was trying to imply that I couldn't make up my own mind. He was merely using this talk page as another forum to continue the discussion, since you were raising the issue here as well. I don't mind the use of my talk page as a discussion forum of a sort; I take it more as a kind of slight compliment, as it implies that at least you consider me an attentive audience. If I minded it, i would say so, but to this extent, I don't have a problem with it. Anyway, i appreciate the useful comments and input from both of you. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 12:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your honesty, Sm8900. I hope that in the future, you will think twice before calling Schechtman or "many zionists ... hate sources." As you can see, PalestineRemembered has already taken advantage of your mistake saying that you "agreed with [him] that Schechtman is a hate-source." --GHcool 18:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear Steve - when you see me filling encyclopedia articles with quotes from anti-semitic Palestinians (and there are bound to be a few), that will be the time to start quoting Arab-hating Israelis.

I've been told off by HG, apparently Holocaust Deniers are not banned from Wikipedia because of their hate-speech (as I assumed), but because of their falsification of history. Well, Schechtman is plainly guilty of falsification a lot more blatant than David Irving (and that just comes from the limited clips I've seen here). In the end, you may not agree with me over Schechtman being a hate-source (despite having told me you do), but you should not be quoting him because it's clear that some people could feel that way about him. You and GHcool have got to find something better, otherwise you'll have forever linked yourself to hatred. You may not be used to the idea of dealing with other lots of other nationalities, but I am - I can assure you that stuff like that goes down very, very badly. PR^talk 19:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus

Actually, it came from me accidentally misreading the following post:

User:Screen stalker - as best I can tell, the reason you're facing "pro-expulsion, anti-EoF" editors all the time is that you're simply wrong.

As I read this, I thought (for some reason) that the word "you're" was "you know you're". My apologies for misreading your post.

I still think that there is overwhelming evidence that a substantial portion of the exodus (just how large still remains to be determined, but probably a super majority) of the exodus was caused either by the tribulations of war or by the actions of Arab leaders. The unfortunate thing is that there are two authors who do not actively push to remove these sourced and are actively involved in editing Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus, namely GHCool and me. Screen stalker 14:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. I appreciate your reply. however that post was not from me. I can already tell, because I don't use terms like that. However I appreciate your helpful reply regrdless. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 14:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Why do we have to keep saying "massacre"?

why do we have to keep saying "massacre"? that seems especially offensive. Can't you simply say "allegations that major human rights abuses occurred"? that seems to me to be just as fair to your concerns. --Steve, Sm8900 14:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The evidence seems to be that that we have credible information for at least one small massacre occuring. It's only "mass-shooting" allegations that were never confirmed. Furthermore, I see no reason to claim that the word "massacre" should be offensive - this lists 24 massacres from about the same time. And we don't have secondary sources saying "allegations that major human rights abuses occurred" - we have RS sources stating that war-crimes were committed. PR^talk 18:54, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. thanks for offering that thought. that sounds interesting. at this point I have little to express on or comment on regarding this issue, regarding any viewpoint or opinion. So I'm not sure about this issue, and do not have any plans at this time to add further to discuss this issue. I really do appreciate you taking the time to seek my opinion, as I do consider this a helpful gesture. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 19:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Many people don't wish to involve themselves in the gory business of documenting massacres, or arguing whether allegations of war-crimes really come from proper RS secondary sources. I'll quite understand if you're one of those people. However, if you're not prepared to look in detail at this stuff, it would be better if you didn't try and partake in discussions on the topic. PR^talk 19:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

at this point, you may feel free to make whatever edits you wish. also, i have no problem with you requesting my opinion or feedback here as you did. The one thing which i might tentatively add, though, is that i prefer to have these discussions at the article's talk page. I am not saying that i have any problem with you asking me questions here at my talk page. however, if I do have any problems at a later point, I still consider myself to have the ability to post a comment at the article talk page, at a later date. Of course, if you post a comment at the article talk page, and I don't reply, you can assume that for now i am willing to leave that issue alone for now.

Obviously, in doing so I have as much freedom to do so as any other editor might to add my comments at some later point, if I feel it is appropriate. however, right now I have little comment to add on this issue, whether here or at the article talk page. thanks very much. i do appreciate you seeking out my input on this. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 19:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether it's "fair" of me to pull out examples of things you've said, go to your Talk and post questions/comments on them. I could equally well do it at the article - the reason I didn't do so is that starting a new section tends to obscure the main discussion going on. Thanks for your understanding - if I do this again and it bothers you, please feel free to transfer it to my page or back to the article. One solution that is "fair" is for you to transfer my most recent comment, and your reply, to my UserTalk, and apparently hold two identical conversations. PR^talk 08:52, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

ok. thanks for your reply. that makes sense. please feel free to do so anytime in the future, when the discussion appears to be more easy to carry out here. bear in mind though, that i may not be all that interested in delving further into certain comments of mine. I may simply have been reacting to the overall topic. so if you see me saying that I understand your point, but do not wish to comment further, it should never be taken as any reflection on my willingness to be in open discussion of something with another editor. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 13:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I just noticed "Back to Jenin" - Ha'aretz 17th July 2002, Ze'ev Schiff "None has since retracted the mendacious claims nor tried to find out how they were misled." My heart could warm to some sections of the Israeli media and Israeli people, who advertise the fact that the Jenin massacre deniers are completely isolated and more or less entirely discredited by everyone. PR^talk 19:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about that. It sounds like Schiff is sayinbg the claims themselves are "mendacious", in other words, false. So he would probably assert that various individuals' non-withdrawal of those claims is due to their malice towards Israel, not towards any attachement by them to truth or to the facts. --Steve, Sm8900 19:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources for disputed articles

Steve, Hi. Thanks so much commenting at Jenin. I like your tone and much of what you say, but I suppose it's more interesting/useful for me to say where I disagree: (1) Your point about sources at Causes48 is not very relevant for Jenin. Whereas Causes is about competing theories and viewpoints, at Jenin -- for the most part -- we aren't (or shouldn't) be trying to describe different viewpoints on the topic. (2) So we need to rely on the most reliable sources in a fairly std WP way. Choosing sources shouldn't be about negotiating betw POV-sided editors, you get yours and I get mine. That's unstable, since editors change, and not good for the encyclopedia and our conception of our work. (Maybe Jenin looks a bit like a POV story when it deals with Isr and Palestinian reporting of the incident(s), but even here it would be preferable if we could rely on good secondary sources etc.) (3) In short, I think it's essential that we -- including you -- should still hold out the belief that peer-reviewed journals and major news media are better than, say self-published journals and newsy blogs. Sure, I suppose there is some tension betw the slants of the best journals and media, but I urge you to back down from the "Let's simply start accepting others' sources" quid pro quo approach. Therefore, I really think you should reconsider that part of your comment at Jenin. (I'd suggest the same for Causes48, but I haven't looked at the context of the Talk there.) Hopefully you'll taking this as a constructive criticism, per your usual good mood and optimism. Anyways, I appreciate our intermittent conversations. Ciao, HG | Talk 18:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

what you say is true, and makes a lot of sense. Still in spite of your persuasiveness, i return to my original point (with a small rewording): if there are two versions of a specific event, each advocated by different sides in an ideological dispute, and each unwilling to yield t the other, the best option for Wikipedia to achieve balance is to use sources from both sides which are well-established in their own communities or ideologies. I know it sounds contentious, but in the end, it seems liek the best way to me to achieve balabnce and consensus. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Your revision sounds much better, if I'm reading it right, because it is (implicitly?) limited to cases where there are only two POV versions and there aren't neutral reliable sources. Right? Otherwise, we still need to challenge the parties to (find and) yield to the neutral sources. Sure, it's a hard challenge because POV-advocates tend to dispute the neutrality of all sources -- so that's why we have 3PO, RfC and the Source inquiry pages. // Ok, if you've followed me this far, then let's ask... In what situations are we writing about something that doesn't have any neutral sources? Hmmm. Thanks for discussing this! HG | Talk 22:18, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

PS fyi. You've been called to the carpet on another part of your comment. Maybe you could strikeout or delete as necessary? Even while you mull over the section we're discussing. At a min, isn't it off topic? HG | Talk 22:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

HG, thanks for your comments. Basically, i fel there is not a single neutral source on the planet on this. how's that for a moderate answer? here's why i feel that way: Is Israel a legitimate country, with a legitimate right to defend itself? The United States, the new York Times, and pro-Israel allies say it is. Or is it a criminal intrusion on local peoples? Most Arab governments say it is. Did the Palestinians do everything possible for peace? Some sources say they did. Or did their own leaders carry out criminal diversion of money and resources meant for peaceful development, choosing instead to incite divisiveness and hatred? many iother sources they did.

i am not saying these are the ONLY sources, but they are the main sources. if we keep looking for some mythical neutral objective view, we will only have more and more edit-wars. the only way to achieve balance and compromise, is to give both points of view some genuine respect; and in fact to make clear that any resolution or depiction of these issues means respecting, hearing and balancing the views, issues, concerns, goals, experiences, and legitimate grievances of both sides. --Steve, Sm8900 16:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome to be a skeptic philosophically, but I don't think what you are expressing is helpful for collaborative work in a project whose vision and policy -- mythmaking or not -- is centered on neutrality. ("mainstream" views, etc. Not "objective.") You strike me as a very likable guy, but if I can be blunt, if you're not with the program then you're fueling disruption. Plus, again bluntly, you/we don't have another way to negotiate, or compromise. Your ideal is nice but it wouldn't put an end to edit wars. If you can't appeal to folks' mutual interest in WP principles and vision, then you're left with some kind of ad hoc bargaining. It won't work, it's unstable. Wikipedia is already unstable enough, but the forces of good (?) here are struggling for a particular kind of principled collaboration. Well, you are welcome to disagree. But really, Steve, you shouldn't be pursuing this idea on an article-by-article basis -- that really is disruptive -- but at the level of WP policies and guidelines. Propose changes. Propose to experiment with a given article or set of articles. Whatever. But otherwise I think you'll be feeding some "negative tendencies" (shall we say) here, rather than creating the kind of mutual respect I know you believe in. HG | Talk 16:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. i appreciate your reply. I enjoy hearing your input. However:

• i do not agree with you that these ideas are disruptive.

• i do not agree with you that my approach is counter-productive.

• i do not agree with you that there is any need for me to stop trying this approach. i am absolutely not doing this in any dogmatic, partisan or philosophical style. i truly believe it to be the best and most benefical way to approach this. I will continue to use this on a case-by-case basis, where I feel it is appropriate and helpful to all editors involved. I am always open to your ideas, and you are always free to disagree as you see fit. However, one small suggestion; I think it might be better if you could please not judge my ideas as being part of any partisan or dogmatic ideology (by the way, I don't feel that you in fact have ever done so in the past, so it's not a big deal or big issue). you are free to simply disgaree or agree as you wish, based on the facts of each case. i do appreciate all your ideas and input. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 18:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure, you don't strike me as dogmatic. I'd add that it may be hard to say when a quid pro quo arrangement on POV sources would work for all editors, since future editors may prefer come along & seek a different deal or even the Noble quest for neutrality. Anyway, let me know of any results you come up with. Ciao. HG | Talk 18:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate that. truthfully, I find you to be a very positive editor, and even the concerns which i expressed above were not things which i was really concerned about. I also agree with the ideas which you stated in your message immediately above. So I appreciate all your good input, as usual. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 20:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

RfM Palestinian people

Hi Steve,

Thx for inviting me, but I don't think it makes sense to have more editors in one of the parties. Maybe I'll take a look after some time, and if I have comments I can always give them to one of the parties. Good luck! --JaapBoBo (talk) 20:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

sounds great. thanks so much for your reply. your response and approach to this whole thing sound extremely reasonable and helpful. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:59, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

What's the point of having a mediation on whether to grant the Palestinians the dignity of being called "a nation"? Seen in the Zionism article (presumably refering to the 1890s): "Jews in growing numbers began to perceive themselves as a "nation" in the new European sense and were inspired by various national struggles. If European nations were entitled to a homeland, and if they excluded Jews, why not create a Jewish homeland, where Jews would be free of persecution?"[1] I'd not tell these people they weren't a nation (I'd likely suffer really serious abuse if I did). Why are the Palestinians not entitled to similar respect? PR^talk 21:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your note. however, i'm not the person to ask about this. i have not tried to overly extend the dispute. i am simply trying to help things reach a positive resolution. However, i do see your point, and your concerns do seem valid. thanks.

By the way, when you put it that way, i do think Palestinians are entitled to respect, and I appreciate your tone in asking. the actual question though of how to best to handle their political claims is a slightly different matter. however, i did want to thank you for the extremely helpful tone of your question and comment. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Your kind note

Thanks for you kind note, it's good to be back. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Mediation request

I have 2 questions comments regardinging your mediation request at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RFM#Palestinian_people.

First, at least three people who have been heavily involved in the dispute (more involved than I have been) are not listed as parties. These are Jaakobou, IronDuke and Itzse. I have no idea whether any of them care whether they are parties or not, but I think the question is whether they have been involved in the dispute enough to warrant having the opportunity to participate (or to reject participation). Clearly, all three of them have been involved enough.

Second, you have stated the "issue to be mediated" as: "Whether to use term "nation" to refer to Palestinians." That is not the issue that has been discussed on the talk page, and that has been the subject of reverting of the article itself. The issue is: Whether to use term "nation" to refer to Palestinians in the first sentence of the article.

Can you please address (and hopefully correct) these issues? 6SJ7 (talk) 02:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

too late. looks like mediation has been rejected. appreciatew your helpful note though. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 12:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

You area funny guy. First you declare that you are Orthodox from Brooklyn, and now trying to do mediation over 'palestinian' status. Just leave it alone. The sooner they have their 'state' the sooner they will all kill each other in a civil war, or maybe just through rampant crime or whatever. Arguing over it in Wikipedia means nothing. If half the World reads on Wikipedia that they are a nation it is not going to change reality of their actions. Relax and write something worth while-- mrg3105mrg3105 12:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand. However, my concern here is not any particular ethnic group, but rather Wikipedia itself. i never said my interest was confined only to Jewish articles, or that i fel the need to avoid involved articles on Palestinians, any more than i would need to avoid any other topic here which might not relate to me personally. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand you came to an agreement on this business, but I cannot find what, or where, you agreed. (And of course, User:JaapBoBo is already engaged in an alarming mediation elsewhere). Can you spell out what you agreed? PR^talk 18:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

IPCOLL scope

Steve, thanks so much for raising this question on my Talk page. You asked "I thought that one of the main points ws to find new ways to address specific issues more constructively? Am i wrong on this?" Well, I think you're right. Not that we'll be trying to replace DR mechanisms, but there's still much we might do. The project is just developing, nobody owns it (even if some of us, ahem, er, might seem overbearing), so we'll have to see. I am hopeful we can address issues that are crucial to the broad area, and that we can help defuse specific battles. However, my concern with your comment is that the project scope q isn't so germane to the statistics Talk and, if I can be somehow both blunt and pleading, you seem to express negativity when a new project needs your confidence and optimism (as you did with the Lounge). Thanks, kol tuv, HG | Talk 16:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure. no problem. I appreciate all your ideas and input. I can certainly accept your comments as something which i need to think about, and some issues which i'll try to be more aware of in the future. by the way, I just created a new page at IPCOLL. I hope that, relevant to your comments here, this will seem like something helpful to you and to others. i appreciate all your input. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the page but haven't read it closely. Maybe it will be similar to what Eleland is suggesting about Content. I'll try to look at it by Thursday or Friday, else nudge me again. Be well, HG | Talk 20:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good! I aprpeciate it. just wanted to make sure there weren't any major problems right now which you saw with it. that's totally fine. I don't need feedback right away. i just wamnted to make sure I had your general OK for this for the time being. If I have your support, I feel things are much better. So I appreciate it. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, hi. I've looked at the subpage. It looks like you'd like an open discussion there of how to handle editing of articles, methods of addressing disputes, etc. (For instance, you'd like to continue talking, after ArbCom, your idea about objectivity.) I would think most such open discussion can be done in the Community Lounge. If somebody has a specific Project method to recommend, arising from a Lounge discussion or otherwise, they can float it on the Project talk. So, given our small number of members, I see little need for another discussion subpage. I thought maybe you were implementing Eleland's idea, which emerged from the "Content issues" thread on Project Talk, for which we would need a new subpage. Thanks. HG | Talk 06:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

PS. Regarding your idea of an issues description for live disputes -- well, you might have something here. On the stats Talk page, I suggest that you try it out and let us see what it looks like. Thanks. HG | Talk 07:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy to use it for Eleland's idea, if that's better. i'd prefer to keep the page, and go forward with it using whatever ideas the group feels are worthwhile. I really appreciate your input. qthanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, hi. Sorry if I'm making a pres out of u and me ;-> but I think of you as somebody who might share some of the upkeep duties for IPCOLL. Maybe we can talk about it at some point. Meanwhile, may we deputize you to be a lighthearted moderator of the Lounge, but tough on NPA/AGF etc as needed? With Carol's recent posting, feel free to copy my response from the project Talk or modify for your own purposes. How's that sounds? Thanks. HG | Talk 22:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi HG. I really appreciate your idea. I feel very complimented. However, sorry, I'm really not in a position to take on any such role right now. Sorry. for one thing I need to be able to direct my attention to other things currently going on in my "real" life. i find Wikipedia a very good outlet, but I wouldn;'t want it to become a commitment in and of itself.

for another thing, even thouigh I do enjoy IPCOLL, I don;t want to commit to be a meditator, simply because I foten have strong views, and I myself don't always know when I am about to take a strong position on an issue. so I don;'t want to take a role where I might have to undermine my own ability to be a neutral figure. So I guess I couldn;'t. however, i really do aprpeciate your willingness to have me in that role,. I do aprpeeciate it greatly. I will try to think of ways to contrbute off and on in other, more periodic ways. thanks so much for writing. feel free write further on this anytime. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, you've pretty much said this before, sorry if I seem stubborn or obtuse. Be well, HG | Talk 22:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

you don't at all. in fact you seem extremely generous for even making the offer. thanks very much. I appreciate it. please feel free to stay in touch. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 23:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Chill...

Hi Steve. I did see it and just wrote a note to Ryan. Since you always take my wise counsel to heart <joke>, let me simply suggest that (unless we are named as a parties) that we mostly observe to see how Ryan handles it, maybe give Ryan some feedback via his Talk, etc. Well, at least for now. In any case, let's not stoke the drama and see how Ryan handles what arises. HG | Talk 17:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for writing. i appreciate your reply. now that you're on it, i guess i can chill and relax. so thanks. I'm really not sure what's going on here. Perhaps I overreacted, as i noticed later that it doesn't actually mention most of the editors whom we know. However, that in some ways only concerns me further, as does that mean that only one side gets any input during the initial stages?

However, i do appreciate your reply. i can sit back and see what happens during the initial phase. however, that may be only a very short period, as once this starts up, there may be a number of issues which may arise. however, i appreciate your input. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Ok, just read your posts at the rfar. Well, I'd still stick with above and encourage you not to overdo it commenting there. I'd like to see how the involved parties respond. Anyway, glad to see you are able to keep drawing attention to the positive. Be well. HG | Talk 18:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Seeing more: Keep in mind, that it's very important to support other folks who are trying to play a facilitating role, like Ryan. Just like, ideally, you and I try not to undermine each other's efforts to lower the intensity. In other words, we should try to support Ryan's leadership/efforts, even if we have some disagreements. That's why I would rather advice or argue with him on his Talk page, not in the Rfar itself. For that reason, I'd encourage you to consider the possibility of removing or significantly revising your oppositional reaction to the RFAR. (Again, not because I disagree, but I don't think that it's so helpful to the process at this stage.) My two cents, and not trying to press you hard on this (since I don't know where it will go), observationally yours, HG | Talk 18:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. thanks for your reply. i do agree with many of your concerns; however, that's why i was careful to only discuss some general issues of the arbitration, and not any indvidual's actions in requesting it. i understand that he has good intentions here, so i appreciate it, but i still wanted to generally discuss it. thanks for your help and input. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi; rfar case

Hi. errr, actually I wasn't accused in this RFaR case. sorry. I simply wanted to post some comments, right at the beginning. I feel bad if I have placed you in an awkward position at all, by not having clarified that before. Sorry. Anyway, thanks so much for all your supportive comments. It's really great to see your willingness to request some positive actions on this. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

No probs. You struck me as a reasonable guy right from the beginning, not afraid to state how you feel progress should be made (even if I proceeded to jump down your throat because I disagreed how progress should be made!). We've never hammered out a compromise together, but I saw you apparently doing something like that with Pedro, and was very impressed. Best Regards, PR^talk 20:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

thanks very much! I appreciate your positive sentiments. Similarly, I know that we may disagree periodically, however, it often appears to me that even when i find you making statements with which i greatly disagree, you often seem to know the difference between discussing a disagreement at the talk page, and fighting it out by fighting over the article. so I appreciate that. I realize there will probably be issues on which we may disagree on in the future, but it doesn't bother me when people disagree with me, even on big issues. so i'm glad we could discuss this. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

There are very, very serious problems in the I-P conflict area, but neither you nor I are part of them. PR^talk 16:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

record of comments from rfar

here is a copy of previous comments from the rfar. these are being placed here for the recrods, since tyhey currently been removed due to normal editing. Quote: first set of comments:

I have dealt periodically with Palestine Remembered,and have found him largely to be courteous and approachable for discussion, even in cases where i might disagree with him completely. I question his inclusion here. this is one of the problems which i have with this case; it invites unnecessary fixation on and argument over minute flaws in user conduct, which might be better addressed within the context of specific articles themselves. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I have (unusually) been quite harsh to Steve, Sm8900 on occasion over etiquette issues, but can confirm he shows all the signs of being a fine collaborative editor. I don't believe anyone has accused him of any misbehavior on these topics, and it is disturbing to see him accused with the rest of "all parties seem resigned to getting their point across through edit warring and other disruption." In fact, the more I look at the list of names included in this case, the more concerned I become - there are at least two editors who most certainly should be in here, while it is packed with several total innocents I've barely seen (including one I've never seen before!). PR^talk 17:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

second set of comments:

[1) It has been suggested that problems in I-P conflict articles are nearly insoluble, I would dispute this. There are a small number of participating editors who appear to have very little experience of scholarship. There are enough of them to feed off each other and drag the whole project down (ie one or two would be tolerable, but we're supposed to operate with far too many around). I believe that if we identified all those who are unfamiliar with books we would find them to be the same people who cannot process what is likely to be an RS. Either of these features probably render an editor to be a net drain on the project. This won't stop the problems, but it would make them manageable again, not much worse than what goes on in other areas.

2) Endorse MastCellTalk suggestion - this process urgently needs a pro-active clerk (will deserve a medal) to stop disruptive behaviour within the process. Not because I-P conflict discussions are (necessarily) worse than others, but because the problem is out-of-control generally.

3) I can confirm that Steve, Sm8900 shows all the signs of being a fine collaborative editor. I don't believe anyone has accused him of any misbehavior on these topics, and it is disturbing to see him accused with the rest of "all parties seem resigned to getting their point across through edit warring and other disruption." PRtalk 19:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Statement by Sm8900

Hi. this is Sm8900. I would like to add my input. i have been a frequent contributor to many discussions in these articles. sorry , but i do somewhat question the need for this arbitration. this request makes no specific statements as to what actually needs to be done or addressed. it's my understanding that Arbcom proceedings exist mainly to sanction other users. I have a concern about the wholesale nature of this proceeding. I would like to see more details about what needs to be addressed here.

I am concerned that starting a case like this might actually create greater conflict than the discussions which it would supposedly address. Sorry, I disagree with statements in the request; I feel that this community has been manifestly able to frequently have positive discussions. There are some articles where that has not been the case, but I feel that those should be addressed individually, not wholesale in a manner which invites the most minute problems and individual flaws to end up taking up most of the time and energy. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi PR. sorry if my text was incovenient. everything is fine with me in regard to this case, so please feel free to remove my comments if you wish. thanks very much for the helpful sentiment which you expressed. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

By the way, if anyone wishes to discuss this case informally, they may do so by going to this page. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion of Arbcom

You and I always disagree - and sometimes I jump down your throat, but I do it wearing only soft shoes. This is not a topic wide problem, there are specific behaviors which make good editing impossible. I think they revolve around a lack of literacy (or possibly intellectual stimulation), people who've never been exposed to enough different ideas to process them in a sensible fashion and decide what to use. PR^talk 21:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

don;t have much to add right now, but just wanted to respond to let you know I did read your note. I like the way you are able to try to look at the whole situation objectively, and to make these kinds of distinction. thanks for raising those thoughts. it will be interesting to see how things progress. feel free to continue to write. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 23:05, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we've been round this before, your thoughtful comment on my Evidence is not really welcome there.

And you're wrong anyway - the ANI was taken out solely on Jaakobou. The RfA was (almost) only about Jaakobou (there were links to me - why?). Since the ANI came out we've discovered that Jaakobou is hiding a huge dark secret. But there is no requirement on him to fall on his sword, or behave with any kind of integrity now he's caught out. He's not admitted to running sock-puppets, let alone how many, or promised to stop!

Today we're told that Jaakobou will *not* be sanctioned, instead of which roving admins, knowing nothing of the histories of any of the editors will go round thwacking people. They're not going to thwack Jaakobou, clearly, since "the balance of the parties is not to change", a member of the Committee told us that before he'd even seen any of the evidence! I do see glimpses of honorable behavior, Ryan imposed himself as my mentor in a distinctly threatening fashion, but he's behaved rather well over it. PR^talk 15:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I accept every one of your concerns as valid, regardless iof whether I agree with any of them. so then why would you not want an individual ArbCom case on all of these allegations and concerns, in order to draw greater attention to them? not sure I follow that reasoning. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

About the arbcomm

I agree that it will likely be fruitless if it spirals out of control into a he said she siad scenario. But there are a few editors and articles that should have a spotlight shones on them. While we are able to break deadlocks sometimes, these deadlocks shouldn't even be happening in the first place. Very often they are the result of people ignoring Wiki policies and guidelines and what the reliable scholarly sources say. For my part, I plan to highlight certain behaviours among a handful of editors, particularly those who have greatly disrupted efforts to add sourced material they don't like. This is to me the most frustrating and damaging behaviour since it discourages good faith editors from improving article quality (something we are in desperate need of in the Middle East related articles). Anyway, I also appreciate your position and thoughts. It will be hard to keep it on track, but I'm hopeful that some adept arbitrators willing to see through the smoke and mirrors will be able to help sort things out a little. I hope you're doing well my friend.Tiamut 22:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tiamut. things are good. it's always good to hear from you. I understand the concerns of everything you said, and I agree with the validity. However, much of what you said only proves my point. you said you want the spotlight shone on a few editors. I have no reason to doubt that almost everything you do will be constructive, well-reasoned and responsible. However, do you think it will be possible for you to make any of your points heard, when you have to compete with at least two dozen editors, all competing and clamoring for attention? Do you think you can be heard when it is clear that, from the start, this entire case will take on a "one side versus the other" form? Do you think you can be heard when it will be almost impossible to suggest any constructive compromise, since there is no specific article at issue here to compromise on?

I am not trying to say that there is some huge cataclysmic event about to occur. Rather I am trying to say the opposite; this case will start very routinely. it will start with people making all their routine allegations, as they are now. It will continue with everyone trying to routinely discuss this, counter others' allegations, while trying to routinely answer with counter-allegations of their own. then it will end, with a routine recitation of all the usual issue and stumbling-blocks which affect almost any editing process here, and an exhortation to all parties to try to play fair. Then it will end, probabkly without almost any decisive resolution, without any positive compromise, and without any constructive rulings on how to best pursue any of the articles which were truly at stake. So I would advise you to rethink your efforts.

If you want to know my suggestion, I would suggest you take the time and effort to bring individual cases for the specific articles which are the greatest points of contention. Doing so may involve harder work and effort, but that's the point; it is harder work which will yield greater results. it is the urge to take the easy way out and to lump everything together which has led us to the current route, which will lead only to impasse. if you start individual article cases, you will probably bring greater clarity, which will lead to much better positive resolution and constructive ideas. so I hope you will think about what I said. thanks very much. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Upon rethinking this, I guess at least at the beginning, we can wait just a little. and see what happens. After re-reading what i wrote above, i decided I don't want to sound too dramatic. However, i do hope you'll think about what i wrote, and see how the case progresses. if events do start to match some of the concerns which i have written here, perhaps at that point in time, it would be possible to think about some of the points and suggestions which i have raised here. thanks very much. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 23:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Your notes

Thanks for both of your recent notes Steve. I think your move to open a med-cab on I/P issues is terrific. I also want to say I think your approach to these things is inspiring; I am beginning to see an era of good will and encyclopedic collaboration opening up between editors with very different convictions. I'm really looking forward to improving articles with you.--G-Dett (talk) 20:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 22:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

From the top of the Evidence page, Steve: "Create your own section to provide evidence in, and do not edit anyone else's section" (emphasis not mine). -- tariqabjotu 15:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, ok. so I guess all replies are handled that way? thanks, still trying to understand all the finer points of rules here. i will move my comments. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Palestinian people

As I said on the talk page, I didn't reopen the discussion. I have not looked back to see who did, but I note that several others who agreed to the compromise "voted" before I did. And yet, I was the one who was singled out on the talk page (not by you) for reopening the issue. As for the reopening in general (apart from my involvement), the fact is that nothing is ever really resolved on Wikipedia. It is not something to be surprised or upset about. 6SJ7 (talk) 05:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with 6SJ7. Looking above, I think Armon kept at the issue, though even he (I sense) may well be able to accept the proposed edit. HG | Talk 05:31, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your responses. i guess what I'm really saying is that i oppose the entire set of ideas being raised now there, as well as the unconstructive way it is being presented and handled. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

RofR

Indeed. I corrected ! Thank you ! Ceedjee (talk) 18:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure, you're welcome. this discussion is already hard enough. Hopefully we can make some progress. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:31, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Edit notes mideast articles

Preview

Steve,

You've just made like 20 minor edits, often undoing and/or correcting yourself, in the past hour to Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Please use the preview button and consider your edits well before submitting. Otherwise, the resulting list in the history is extremely hard to follow and some, if not many, critical edits can get lost in the process... It is also an unnecessary burden to the servers here.

Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 16.01.2008 16:01

ok, that sounds fine. appreciate the idea. thanks. i'll try to do so in the future. I can't give any guarantees to always do so of course, but I'll try to do so more often, to make things easier, and for other editors here who also need some clarity and consideration. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk)

Recent edits on Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Hi Steve,

I left a comment here. You removed sourced material (the source is the document by Abdallah) and I would appreciate it if you re-inserted it.

Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 23.01.2008 07:45

I'm sincerely sorry about the mix-up... I've left a note at Talk:Israeli-Palestinian conflict#History. Cheers, pedro gonnet - talk - 23.01.2008 14:31

Ok, thanks. i aprpeciate you writing to say that. thanks. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Change your statement at the ArbCom

Steve - I have completely torn up my statement at the ArbCom, I suggest you modify or delete your statement. PR^talk 10:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve - you said that "It would be a relatively simple matter to institute indivdual proceedings ... in the long run an individual case might be healthier"

I greatly appreciate, and have taken note of your valued advice, restricting my evidence to just one of these editors. Thankyou. PR^talk 18:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. I'm very glad if any suggestions of mine were helpful at all. Thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 23:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Last on Earth

I have nominated Last on Earth, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Last on Earth. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Lankiveil (talk) 03:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

ok. thanks for your note. I thought we generally can include most published works of fiction? anyway, I haven't read your comments yet, and I am open to anything you might raise. thanks for your note. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:Events

Thanks for your kind comments. I responded at User talk:Lquilter; your input on Category talk:Social events would be welcome, and I explained more at User talk:Lquilter. --Lquilter (talk) 18:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

thanks! I took a look. I will try to think about this more. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Israeli-Palestinian conflict --protect?

Yesterday there were relevent and reliably-sourced casualty figures added to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict article, and some editors objected to this. It seems you quickly put a request out to "protect" the page from editing, effectively blocking the inclusion of the figures. You cited "edit warring," the more accurate term would be repeated reverts from those who did not like the figures for political reasons. There are casualty figures in all the conflict, war, battle etc. Wiki articles I have referenced, why not this one? Thanks RomaC (talk) 11:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

thanks for your helpful note. could you please explain why you tried to include the statistics from one year only, and why you tried only to insert statistics which were so obviously slanted against portraying the difficulties faced by Israelis? thanks. --12:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

As I answered elsewhere, the 2007 stats are the most up-to-date. The source is Israel's oldest and most-respected newspaper. Are you accusing Haaretz of being "slanted against portraying the difficulties faced by Israelis?" or do you simply not like the stats? Why are you campaigning so aggressively against their inclusion? ThanksRomaC (talk) 00:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

What do you want in the article? The lede of this article is huge, the subject is a deadly conflict and yet it contains no mention of the casualties. Clearly, there is something seriously wrong. There are two possible solutions that don't overwhelm the article, either show recent casualties, or all since the start of the conflict. The latter figure is estimated at 250,000 Palestinians killed - is that the estimate you want in the article? PR^talk 10:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I think i would prefer to discuss this at the article talk page, so that others may participate as well. I do not own this article, and would prefer not to try to answer all questions regarding it. thanks anyway. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Gilad Shalit

Hi Steve,

You may want to re-consider your last edit to Gilad Shalit. User:Dbratton has proposed a solution to the current edit-warring and we still have to clean up the references. The references themselves only use the word "hostage" in their titles and in any case cannot be considered the final word. Please read-up on the talk page -- your opinion on the proposed solution is more than welcome!

Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 12:47

P.S. The links/references don't use the word "hostage" except for the CNN link. There it is only used in the title to qualify the demands and not Gilad Shalit himself. pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 12:49

Hi. Ok, thanks. I am open to considering your comments and suggestions, and the discussion of the article . thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, then please self-revert your edit until this has been discussed and/or the compromise worked out. I've been through this with User:Jaakobou and User:Kyaa the Catlord yesterday and don't want to run into any more WP:3RR-problems. Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 14:44

I don't mind if anyone else reverts me; i will not counter-revert. however, I went to see what was on Kyaa's talk page, and did not see any such discussion, so i;'m not sure that i want to self-revert. could you please let me know where these discussions occurred? thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The "discussion" -- both with Kyaa and Jaakobou -- was in the edit-summaries of our edits and reverts on Gilad Shalit. Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 15:19

Hi. sorry, I don't see any replies from them indicating acceptance. however, as i mentioned, anyone at all can revert my edit, and i will not change it back. if you want, feel free to log off and do it from an IP address, since I really don;'t mind if you yourself revert it. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've reverted -- thanks for discussing it. What do you mean by "here should not be any doubt that this is a distinct, notable issue"? Should the subsection be labelled differently? Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 15:30

no, just that it seemed that some editors expressed they felt a reasonable doubt as to whether this issue needed to be addressed in a sub-section, or whther there was significant support other than Jaakobou for use of that term. So i just wanted to make clear, that it does appear to be a notable issue, and there is support from other editors for use of the term "hostage". --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but there is also support against it... If it was just me, this thing would have been over long ago. pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 15:43

errr, not sure i understand your reply...i admit and accept that there is support against it, so i am open to discussing it and compromise. I would assume that is also what you meant? ..I assume you don't mean that support against it means the discussion should be over, but rather that you;d just like to see the issue resolved. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I just meant to say that there's no overwhelming support for or against it... Which is why we have to find a good solution! Have a nice weekend, pedro gonnet - talk - 04.01.2008 16:01

sounds good! thanks. you have a good weekend too. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Using CategoryTree - fayenatic

Hi, I note that you added CategoryTree to a couple of head categories today. I wasn't aware of that feature before, and am really pleased to have learned it -- see e.g. Category:Hebrew Bible people, an example of a sub-category page that includes template text, so I only had to add CategoryTree to the template for all the relevant sub-cats to show it.

However, it seems a bit pointless to add the tree on the head category page Category:Star Trek, as its contents are compact enough for all the sub-cats to be visible there, and one can use + and - to explore the tree. It would make more sense to add it to some or all of the sub-cats. What do you think? - Fayenatic (talk) 18:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I guess you're right. I really just put it up there to see what people thought, and maybe to get a few positive and/or interesting comments. So you fit the bill on both counts. so I appreciate it. Please feel free to make any changes you want, or just remove it entirely.

By the way you seem to be pretty consistent in terms of your involvement. What are you up to generally? Do you have any favorite Trek series? thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 18:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have a compulsive daily habit here! You may have noticed I've joined my first WikiProject, and not an obvious one. I've wikified various name pages since Zechariah, and watch them for vandalism; one thing often leads to another, and I do enjoy improving messy ones. I'm pretty unfocussed on Wikipedia, but also try to keep up with WP:PROD, because valid stuff can be deleted by that route with less scrutiny than AFD.

My favourite Trek series is New Frontier! I set up a userbox & category for its Wikipedian fans, but as nobody joined me in it -- not even users who named themselves after its characters -- I recently deleted it. For more info see my page at Memory Alpha (not that I am an active user there).

Thanks for your message; I must have "unwatched" you inadvertently. I looked at your new categories, and suggest there should be a navigational link between Category:Diplomatic conferences and Category:Treaties. If one should not be within the other hierarchically, then I suggest adding a "See also" link on both Category pages. - Fayenatic (talk) 17:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

that sounds good. I may give that a try. thanks so much! Star trek Frontiers has been doing plenty, from what I hear. good for you for starting that. --Steve, Sm8900 18:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Not Star Trek: Hidden Frontier, or any other fanfic, but New Frontier, Peter David's awesome novel series! - Fayenatic (talk) 20:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Edit reviews and comments

Editor review

Steve, thanks for your kind note -- but, by all means, you are welcome to yourself write or comment on the review page itself. Feel free to speak your mind, I welcome your constructive feedback, criticisms, advice for improvement, etc. Here's the link. Best wishes, HG | Talk 19:45, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

you're welcome! thanks for writing. i will add my comment right now. thanks for your help. --19:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't bite the hand that feed you. Oops, wrong cliche, because here I'm going to give you a hard time. Your last comment on Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Proposed decision seems ill-advised and unhelpful. Esp since you're an involved party. Maybe it was fun to write it. Don't spend it all in one place, but my 2 cents is that you would be better off with a self-revert. Whatever you decide, I remain, yours truly, HG | Talk 16:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I hear you. however in this case, I feel a little humor is not always such a bad thing. appreciate the suggestion though. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 19:07, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Congrats

Well done Sm8900 (Steve) you have made number 1 on my top 5 of Wikipedians! Rick-Levitt ^{Talk Contribs} 08:47, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I came into contact with you with the Green Service Uniform. Very recently. Rick-Levitt ^{Talk Contribs} 17:27, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

oh sure. i realzie that. i just didn't know if that was the idea which got your attention, or something else. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 17:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I appreciate your noticing me. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 00:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Steve, nice to meet you too. Did you serve in the military? Tomorrow (Tuesday) is actually my last day in the Army, actually. So that's pretty exciting. Your edits at the Service Uniform article look pretty good. The only thing I could suggest is that articles can always use more sources. I'd look for a source for more specific statements, like that in 1947, Bronze Stars were given to those with CIBs. Regards, Parsecboy 23:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Congratulations on your completion of service! Great job. No, i actually didn't serve in the US military. I'm proud to be mistaken for one though! thanks. I have a feeing a that some other editors may think so too, given the trend in my recent edits. I'm glad just as long as my edits meet some standard of credibility for active members of the military. thanks for writing. Appreciate your input. By the way, appreciate your suggestion re Bronze Star. the only reason i didn't cite the source is because that information is in the smaller articles on those topics. But if I know people want those details, that may give me a reason to put that in. Appreciate those ideas. --Steve, Sm8900 02:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

2007 Georgian demonstrations

Hey. Thanks! Not often I get encouraging comments, appreciate it. If you want to do something very wiki-gnomey then you could format the references in the page as per {{cite news}}, I think some of them may be broken links already as well. Thanks. - Shudde ^talk 23:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

More Star Trek fayenaticism

Hi Steve, I thought you might be interested in these AFDs: Dabo, Kadis-kot and Parrises Squares. Blink and they'll be gone! and even a List may not be allowed. Regards, - Fayenatic (talk) 00:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

thanks! I'll be sure to take a look. it's great to hear from you! see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 03:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Ironseed1.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Ironseed1.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 16:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've done this one for you. CountingPine 23:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

thank you SO much. i really appreciate it. it's a real pleasure to get some real help here. thanks again. feel free to write anytime. --Steve, Sm8900 17:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Category discussions

pop histroy contents

2007 Boston Mooninite scare A Aqua Teen Hunger Force Colon Movie Film for Theaters C Cartoon Network Invaded G The Grim Adventures of the Kids Next Door Guitar Hero (series) I Imaginationland Imaginationland Episode II Imaginationland Episode III

popular history category

Hi Sm8900 - To follow up on my comments on the CFD discussion about Category:Popular history, I think the best thing for you to do is really think closely and carefully about the things you are trying to group together, and come up with what is defining about that grouping; and then see whether it is, in fact, also defining about those articles. If so, then it could be a good category. If not, then perhaps a list. But a list has to be on a notable topic -- so the thing that is in common needs to be something that is independently written about, as a topic. Does this make sense? See categories, lists, and series infoboxes for more info. --Lquilter (talk) 14:27, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

that sounds good. thanks for the ideas. will think about these. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Category discussion

My interest in SF games is specifically in the retro ones (notably ZX Spectrum). The SF categories are one of those I periodically go through and spellcheck/cleanup, as they tend to be edited a lot so a lot of errors accumulate. If you want to give the details of the category that's up for deletion, I can certainly have a look. — iridescent 20:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Although it had already closed by the time I got there, in this case I actually agree with the deletion - while it's a valid category under a different title (I can't think of one), "Star Trek style" didn't seem appropriate - Elite, for example, was virtually the antithesis of Star Trek, given that the way to succeed fastest was to kill anything weaker than you and run away from anything stronger. Han Solo would be a better comparator. — iridescent 15:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

ok, that's a valid point. I udnerstand the concerns, and I do realize the category title was a bit unusual. So I will try to come up with a better title. Maybe "Category: Exploratione-themed starship simulators", to group any games which create a setting of a universe with various interactions and interrelationships? As you say, the category itself is a valid, so maybe this is abetter form for it. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

re: New categories

Hi Steve! I modified a few of your changes (see contribution list, I left a short rationale for most.) I think this due to a slightly different view on Category:Fundamental and Category:Main topic classifications. While Category:Contents is the starting point for the categorization of both article and non-article categories, Category:Fundamental and Category:Main topic classifications embody two different philosophies on the categorization of just articles; Category:Fundamental starting with more abstract concepts and Category:Main topic classifications with more conventional subjects.

Some things I'm still thinking about is whether Category:Lists and Category:Glossaries should be directly under Category:Contents or under Category:Articles. I've put them in the former for now, because while they are in article space, they can be considered a different kind of article than the regular encyclopaedic articles and it left Category:Contents less empty. I would also like to rename Category:Main topic classifications to Category:Articles by topic or Category:Articles by subject and Category:Fundamental to Category:Articles by ..., to better indicate their function, but haven't found a good name of that form for the latter.

My next project will probably a complete redesign of Wikipedia:Contents, which while linked directly from every page on Wikipedia is currently in a pretty sad shape. Cheers, —Ruud 21:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi I think that all sounds really good. I really appreciate your reply and your ideas. Please feel free of course, to do anything you may wish. i am open to any ideas which you may have. thanks. (I may reply more specifically, once I have a little more time to look over your edits, ideas, etc.) thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

re your second para, actually I think most of those things are fine the way they are (not because i resist change, just because i happen to like the existing set-up on each). re the contents categroy, i agree with your having placed glossaries and lists there. it makes sense.

re renaming "category:fundamental" and "category:main topic classifications", I sort of disagree. sorry, but once we make them categories of "articles by...", they cease to be root categories, and become just another accretion category. furthermore, they would then have to include everything under the sun, not just notable sub-categories. so i like them the way they are now. perhaps they are a little abstract, but I think they are an elegant and intriguing way for a reader to start their research here. of course, if you want to change the contents, I'm always open to that. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

here's another thought. we already have Category:Categories by topic. So Category:Articles by topic might sound like it might be a bit redundant. besides, some editors might say that alomost every category here is a grouping of something by topic. that's kind of frequent here. :-) but anyway, thanks so much for your help on this. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Soil science as a natural material

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Soil#Soil_Directory_Structure. I think your input would be very helpful.

Earlier today, you placed Category:soil science as a subcategory of category:natural materials. You habitually don't leave an edit summary or indicate your thinking on the category/article talk pages. Using the edit summary feature for future edits will be most appreciated.

I am reverting your categorization of category:soil science for several reasons, but chief among them is based on this statement in the article natural material:

A natural material is any product or physical matter that comes from plants and animals used to make other objects or products. Minerals and the metals that can be extracted from them (without further modification) are also considered to belong into this category.

Using that metric, the articles under category:soil science don't qualify as natural material articles. Of course the natural materials article could be rewritten to accommodate a soil-related category (as well as accommodate some of the other materials-related categories curiously categorized as natural materials), but that wouldn't be my first choice. I favor starting a category:soil and placing it within the category:natural resources structure.

I encourage you in your efforts to improve the categorization of the Wikipedia's soil-related content. I myself considered doing something similar to what you did. Earlier this month, I was going to start a category:soil under category:natural materials, and proceed to tag a number of soil articles that are more resource oriented than science oriented. As you can see in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Soil#Soil_Directory_Structure, I am still mulling over the best choice. -- Paleorthid 21:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Update: I reconsidered your basic point and agree it is valid. Accordingly, I have rewritten natural materials (or more accurately, reverted it) to accommodate soil as a natural material. I have placed a fairly new category:soil under category:natural materials. Not so category:soil science, but i think its better that way. I will be categorizing soil material topics under category:soil. -- Paleorthid 17:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

sounds great! thanks so much for your help. look forward to further group efforts. feel free to write anytime, about anything at all. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 20:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Main topics category

Please stop adding things indiscriminately to this category. You should not add anything without considering whether the category structure in that field leads up to that category, which you are plainly not doing. In the cases that came up on my watchlist they certainly did not. In addition you are not using an edit summary, even though each edit is the same so you could easily copy it. Johnbod 04:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. i appreciate your input. I will try to follow your suggestion. In response to your concerns, I think we need to ask what is the function of this category. Is it strictly hierarchical? I think we already have Category:Fundamental for that. So i think the point of this category was to include a variety of major categories which are topics in their own right, and which seem to stand on their own, regardless of where they appear in the hierarchy. For example, due to our hierarchical categories, "medicine" might appear in several places at once. yet no one would deny that it is an entire field in its own right, which some readers might frquently be looking for. similarly for painting, etc. how about sculpture, biology, etc?

one main point of a "main topics" category, it seems to me is to make thing easier for newcomers; since, obviously a topic with a vague title like "main topics" is not itself defined clearly with any specific topic, and is obviously open to some interpretation. the title itself does not imply any intrinsic category whatsoever. So i tried to make some edits which i felt were in keeping with the basic idea here. Obviously, all my edits are subject to change, and the very nature of my effort means it will be seen almost immediately by a wide variety of people. So whatever you may think of my efforts and work, whether you agree or disagree, I hope you can at least try to respect the good-faith nature of my efforts, and my willingness to do it in the open (as I myself frequently try to respect in others, when I find myself in disagreement sometime here and there). thanks again for your useful input and feedback. --Steve, Sm8900 04:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't work - there is in fact relatively little in the painting & sculpture categories, because the whole structure centres on other categories. The same for plants and animals. Just going along mechanically adding things that seem to you to be significant topics is worse than useless, because it confuses people as to what the main categories actually are. Actually I doubt that anyone much watches this area, & I can't be bothered to revert all your edits, though I would feel justified in doing so, so many will probably remain. Johnbod 05:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

but that's the point; this is not for main categories in the hierarchical sense, it is for main topics. from that point of view, any category which is a self-contained topic of major signifcance does belong there. viewed from that point of view, it is almost obvious that some things do belong there, such as "Biology," "Law","Politics", etc. I agree with you; that this is, of course, all subject to discussion. I expect and am happy to have my content "mercilessly edited " by others, as the saying goes. Maybe these are a lot of edits, but there are an awful lot of people watching these categories. So I expect any differences of opinion are quite addressable. I do appreciate all your feedback and input. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 14:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:United States popular history

Category:United States popular history, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Cgingold (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Popular history, which you created, has been nominated for deletion.

Article discussions

re:article protection

To be honest, I'm not sure what the dispute was about, but it involved more than one good editor on each side and reverting of someones reverted edit. The Placebo Effect 18:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Please discuss your reverts

If you're going to revert on Debt-based monetary system, please note why you did so in the talk page and not just the edit summary. You have repeatedly reverted and invoked "consensus" without putting the same amount of effort in seeking consensus to improve the page. Zenwhat (talk) 02:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

simply because there did not seem to be a consensus in favor of such large deletions. thanks for your note. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 03:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I noted the reason for my deletions and changes (I review each section first) on the talk page. If anyone disagrees with those reasons they should discuss them on the talk page instead of just reverting them. There is a lot of fluff in the article that needs to be addressed. Consensus will never happen if the article keeps getting reverted without anyone discussing the changes. --EGeek (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I see your point. I will try to consider that. thanks for your note. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 03:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Gettysburg edits

Sm, Let me make a few comments about the recent editing disputes in which we have been engaged. I would prefer to have a cooperative, courteous, and productive relationship on Wikipedia with all users. It is true that I do not "own" the many American Civil War articles I have written, but you can understand that when someone creates an article, writes all of the content, provides all of the footnotes, and draws all of the maps, he has some ongoing concern for the editorial direction of the article, how it fits with related articles, how facts and opinions are cited, and the overall correctness of the contents. Furthermore, when someone comes out of the blue and makes modifications, my opinions about those modifications carry equal weight to the person who is proposing those modifications, regardless of whether I "own" the article are not. I would say that about 95% of the time when I revert something, the average user -- particularly those who are anonymous -- does not challenge that judgment and goes on to other things. You are now in the 5% case where I need to discuss and negotiate with you about changes.

Little Round Top: My primary concern here is not that you are adding incorrect information, but that it is more appropriately included in the article on Little Round Top, not this two sentence summary of the battle. One of the problems in Wikipedia is that summaries of topics that are covered adequately in other places began to blow up and up as people want to add all of their key details to the summary. That's why the American Civil War article, for instance, which is essentially a large summary, is so chock-full of details. It grew over time because everyone wanted to ensure their key claim was included. I am concerned that if we expand the two sentences in this article, it will start a process in which all the pent-up details of Little Round Top seep back in -- Oates, Thomas Chamberlain, Melcher, Killer Angels, The Movie. However, if you strongly feel that doubling the size of the summary to include the doubts of historians about the importance of this engagement is necessary, we can discuss specific language.

Cavalry: It is important for me to say that the dispute is not about the correctness of the alternative theories (although I personally believe they are incorrect); it is about how they are described. In my personal style guide, I touch on this issue: User:Hlj/CWediting#Editing footnoted paragraphs. In this case, I think the historical record warrants a treatment that is flavored something like "These two authors have the following theory about Lee's intentions, and if they are true, the results at East Cavalry Field can be seen as historically critical to the outcome of the battle. However, no other prominent historians who have written about Gettysburg or cavalry matters in general have found any evidence that these claims are justified." Let me know if you would like to proceed with editing on that basis.

Hal Jespersen 16:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I appreciate your reply. I think that your reply and the time you took to write it here show a lot of helpfulness and open attitude. thanks. I will take some more time to read what you wrote, and then perhaps come up with some better ideas. By the way, I do appreciate these articles, and all the effort you took on them, especially if you wrote most of these yourself. they are very helpful. thanks again. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 17:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Re thanks

Thanks, however I won't be participating in any History renovation. I'm afraid that my intro experience made me realise that editing this article is a complete joke, because editors like User:Jaakobou cause far too many problems, ignite far to many irrational arguments, and essentially make the entire process a frustration. I'm happy that i got the intro into a reasonable state; i'm happy that some people (including yourself) bothered to help me rather than attend to their pet semantic dispute; however the fact that i had to jump through so many hoops to make real edits to the article (as opposed to political or 'news' edits) has made the task of the rest of the article too daunting. Have fun Suicup (talk) 14:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. I hope you'll still feel free to add comments or input now and then, or anytime you may wish. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:14, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Spore

Yes, it is interesting. Like I said, you could play the game without any of the user generated content and, assuming the computer can make it's own stuff which it should be able to, you'd never know. It's just interesting to think that the creature that you make could end up on someone elses game. It's kind of like an automatic constant modding feature. Chuy1530 (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

true. thanks for your reply. guess that is one way to look at it. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

On Parent categories

re: just posted a comment agreeing with you at Category:Parent categories. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks, will take a peek // FrankB 20:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Personal notes

Hi Steve!

Thanks for your note. I'm doing really well. Renovations on the house are coming along slowly but surely. It's so satisfying to work with your hands to build the place you live in. It gives a whole new meaning to home ownership. One day, if you are ever in Nazareth, you should drop by and check out our progress. I'm glad to hear you are doing well. Take good care of yourself. Tiamut 14:21, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Rodeomontade

Ummm, Nishidani . . . verse . . .

Messing in wiki kitchens where dab hands cook
The daily staple of our food for thought,
Chefs wrangle over recipes; none will brook
A minor change in what their mothers taught.

The tastes acquired in childhood still proclaim
The higher merits of one’s native fare.
Each tinkers with the broth, and all disdain
The waffle mix their vying tastes prepare.

The banquet languishes, as chefs all wish
Their native culinary bias win consent,
And pot-pourris of shawarma, gefilte fish

Defeat all appetite, for they have blent
So many flavours into just one dish
The food we’re served is hell, not heaven-scent.

>) or, after scanning, :<( Regards Nishidani (talk) 14:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

funny! thanks. Actually, it's going to take me a little while to make sure i understood it. so thanks for sending me a mental exercise! :-) very cool stuff. I agree with you, that describes Wikipedia quite handily. what a kitchen this is! nice to have some poetry on it. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

License

Please cite your sources for the edits you made to License. This will help in verifying the article's text. Thanks! -- • • • Blue Pixel 04:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Yahoo! Green

A tag has been placed on Yahoo! Green requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for web content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Yavoh 21:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United Nations Parliamentary Assembly

Hello, I have created an article about the UN Parliamentary Assembly, a world body that would be similar to Europarl. Please review and vote on the WP:FAC nomination. Thanks, Sarsaparilla (talk) 01:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit conflicts, behaviors

Edit warring.

You are engaging in disruptive behavior. Please do not get in an edit war with me. I do not appreciate that. WP:CON reads, "Consensus is typically reached as a natural product of the editing process; generally someone makes a change or addition to a page, and then everyone who reads the page has an opportunity to either leave the page as it is or change it. In essence silence implies consent if there is adequate exposure to the community." It would be most appropriate of you if you started a new section in the talk page to discuss your thoughts before you revert someone who is acting in good faith. Please keep that in mind in the future. Thanks. ~ UBeR (talk) 19:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not in an edit war. please do not subject me to critiques of my behavior. you made a change; I changed some of it back. so far no one has backed the deletion which you made. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

by the way, another point: an "edit war" is when one user makes a variety of positive, constructive edits, and then another user comes along and simply deletes them or reverts them all without any discussion. In this case, however, i accepted almost all of your edits, and simply re-added a sentence to indicate my thoughts on a slight adjustement which i felt was worth making; however, you simply deleted my sentence repeatedly. I'm not saying what you did was anything so severe, however that is why i simply added it again, with a request in the edit summary to discuss this further; also, in a general sense, I could conceivably use the term "edit war" for your action, but I don't feel the need to use that term . I am glad this could be brought to the talk page, and could reach some resolution. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I've replied on my talk page. ~ UBeR (talk) 20:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

In an already long article - this information is "one click away". I can't really see that it provides any important detail in the context of this article. The global warming article is about the science - not the trivia. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 16:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Damn! I must have been pretty tired when i wrote this... I was sure that i'd written it on the talk page of global warming. It seems a bit out of context here - since i was actually replying to the talk on global warming. (i just spent a confused couple of minutes searching for my comment :-)) --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 19:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

no problem! always happy to have some input. your point is valid. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Your note/debt-based editing

Thanks for your note. And apologies if I had deleted after your edits, hadn't noticed that. That particular section just appeared to be particularly redundant and egregious in its place in the article. I think a substantial amount of cutting needs to be done to this article; I'll try to go slow, however.--Gregalton (talk) 20:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

no problem. i understand now. thanks for writing to say that. i appreciate your considerate note. that sounds good. thanks for your note. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Likewise. I'd also appreciate if you could keep an eye on the quality of the references. Many are just blogs.--Gregalton (talk) 01:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Games

netrek

Hi! Netrek costs no money to play, and is also almost entirely open source. Clients can be downloaded from netrek.org. When killed, a player drops back to the ship and team selection page; generally you just grab a new ship and go right back in in a matter of seconds. The main costs to getting killed are that you lose any kills you have achieved (meaning you must kill again to carry armies) and that any armies you were carrying are lost, and that your new ship comes in at your homeworld, while the battle front may be halfway across the galaxy. Do feel free to let me know if you have other questions. -- Akb4 (talk) 21:09, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

awesome! sounds good. it's really nice to have a fellow editor to communicate with so easily, and on a subject which is enjoyable and amicable in the first place. usually, i get one or the other, but not both. :-) :-) thanks very much. hope to be in touch again. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

--Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 04:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Foundation (french wikipedia)

In fact, an article about this game was created few month ago. The community decided to delete this article due to his lack of notability. 62.161.46.1 (talk) 13:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok. thanks very much for your reply, my friend. i appreciate your help. And it's nice to see some cooperation between our two great languages and cultures, even for a small item. thanks for your help. feel free to write any time.

Répondant à une autre en ce qui concerne la réponse de l'éditeur de jeux fondation. . Ok. Merci beaucoup de votre réponse, mon ami. J'apprécie votre aide. Et c'est bien de voir certains de coopération entre nos deux grandes langues et des cultures, même pour un petit point. Merci pour votre aide. N'hésitez pas à écrire tout moment.

{{helpme}} where is a template for notifying users of a requ8est for mediation? thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 02:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with it, off-hand, although I believe someone from the Mediation Committee typically takes care of notifying people. I'll keep looking a bit and let you know if I find it. If nothing else, just linking to the request and asking them to take a look may work fine. Hope that helps. – Luna Santin (talk) 03:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I think I got it. feel free to view my contribs list, if you want. I used the search function and checked off"templates." thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 03:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the Requests for Mediation guide, a member of the Mediation Committee will notify involved parties for you - there's no need to do it yourself. At any rate, I'll remove the helpme for now, but feel free to add it back up if you need to. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 03:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: Deletion of Flash game Flash Trek 2

Um, why me? --Kjoonlee 14:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I thought Flash games are an interest of your? If not, no big deal. Feel free to write and to let me know either way. I do appreciate your reply; nice to see someone take the time to write, even in bemusement! :-) feelf ree to write further. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not that interested, and I didn't ask to be contacted at random about things I'm not interested in. Please don't spam. --Kjoonlee 17:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, sorry. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Flash Trek 2

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Flash Trek 2, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 13:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Skies of war

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Skies of war, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 13:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Editing processes, ideas

IPCOLL lounge

Hi Steve. I'm disappointed in your reaction to Casual Observer. His long sharing of thoughts is just the kind of thing that would be appropriate for the lounge. Since I'm hoping you'll play a leading role in keeping the lounge civil and NPA, etc., your negative reaction and put down isn't what I would expect from you. Also, you make a rather "sweeping pronouncement" yourself: "sorry, we're not creating any article called "Semite." " I mean, yes, you're probably right in the factual sense, but it's probably better to use an "I statement" rather than sound as if you're speaking there for the WikiProject. See what I mean? Anyway, if you have a chance to strike out or reword your negative response, I think it will help make our Collaborative project more collegial. Thank very much. (And please appreciate that I send you these requests because I feel that you're someone who is responsive in human interactions and dedicated to policy.) Oh, almost forgot -- the reason I called this section Lounge is also because I'll move, or encourage folks to move, threads and oratory that belong more to the Lounge. thanks! HG | Talk 15:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi HG. Always good to hear from you. Re your comments here, thanks, ok, I'll try to think about that. i think i may be having some reactions which i didn't expect, on an unexpected level. so perhaps that will cause my role to evolve and change slightly, and I assume any shift in roles would itself allow people to adapt differently to my viewpoint, and to change their response accordingly. so overall this process is probably often self-correcting. however, I will try to give some thought to your ideas, and all your views on this. i really do apreciate hearing your ideas and thoughts on all of this. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, I admire your flexibility today and willingness to revise what your own comments. I wish more people would learn from that. I especially like what you wrote recently under the polling for a collaborative article. Be well and keep editing.... HG | Talk 02:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Your edits and comments

Hi. I want to salute you as a true American and a person of valuable dedication to important topics in this overall project. your consistent and high-quality editing of articles and concepts which are important to the history of our nation is truly encouraging to observe. thanks for all your efforts. hope all goes well. i look forward to watching more of your efforts and work in this regard. thanks very much. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words. Hal Jespersen (talk) 17:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! thanks for writing back. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear Steve

I'm really sorry to have to disappoint you, but I don't really have time to review your comments at all of those pages and offer my opinion on each and every one of them. I will say that I did notice your comment at Palestinian people and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I also noticed your comments at the IPCOLL page, but I'd rather not get into an extended analysis of what my personal opinion of them is right now. It's not so much that they were offensive or anything, but rather that I found them to be a little unconstructive (sorry). Overall, I'd say you are doing fine with the new "regime". Try not to be so self-conscious and alternatively, I'd recommend pausing before shooting from the hip. I'm trying to learn the same myself. :) Tiamut^talk 18:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

ok, that's totally fine,. thanks for your reply. i really just wanted to get your reply as a reality check, so I'm fine with your reply no matter how long or short it is. i appreciate your feedback. Everything you said sounds very germane and helpful. It's good just to get a general sense of someone's overall feelings about my comment, whatever the depth of their feelings may be. so thanks very much. good to hear you. feel free to write anytime, on this or anything else. thanks. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: need help, please

I've just made a couple of changes, and moved the box below the summary. The only thing is, you should put something meaningful in the Summary section, even if it's just a repeat of the description in the rationale box.
Best regards, CountingPine (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed that summary box, and given your other image link the 'thumb' attribute so the caption shows. CountingPine (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

IPCOLL scope

Steve, thanks so much for raising this question on my Talk page. You asked "I thought that one of the main points ws to find new ways to address specific issues more constructively? Am i wrong on this?" Well, I think you're right. Not that we'll be trying to replace DR mechanisms, but there's still much we might do. The project is just developing, nobody owns it (even if some of us, ahem, er, might seem overbearing), so we'll have to see. I am hopeful we can address issues that are crucial to the broad area, and that we can help defuse specific battles. However, my concern with your comment is that the project scope q isn't so germane to the statistics Talk and, if I can be somehow both blunt and pleading, you seem to express negativity when a new project needs your confidence and optimism (as you did with the Lounge). Thanks, kol tuv, HG | Talk 16:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure. no problem. I appreciate all your ideas and input. I can certainly accept your comments as something which i need to think about, and some issues which i'll try to be more aware of in the future. by the way, I just created a new page at IPCOLL. I hope that, relevant to your comments here, this will seem like something helpful to you and to others. i appreciate all your input. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the page but haven't read it closely. Maybe it will be similar to what Eleland is suggesting about Content. I'll try to look at it by Thursday or Friday, else nudge me again. Be well, HG | Talk 20:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good! I aprpeciate it. just wanted to make sure there weren't any major problems right now which you saw with it. that's totally fine. I don't need feedback right away. i just wamnted to make sure I had your general OK for this for the time being. If I have your support, I feel things are much better. So I appreciate it. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, hi. I've looked at the subpage. It looks like you'd like an open discussion there of how to handle editing of articles, methods of addressing disputes, etc. (For instance, you'd like to continue talking, after ArbCom, your idea about objectivity.) I would think most such open discussion can be done in the Community Lounge. If somebody has a specific Project method to recommend, arising from a Lounge discussion or otherwise, they can float it on the Project talk. So, given our small number of members, I see little need for another discussion subpage. I thought maybe you were implementing Eleland's idea, which emerged from the "Content issues" thread on Project Talk, for which we would need a new subpage. Thanks. HG | Talk 06:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

PS. Regarding your idea of an issues description for live disputes -- well, you might have something here. On the stats Talk page, I suggest that you try it out and let us see what it looks like. Thanks. HG | Talk 07:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy to use it for Eleland's idea, if that's better. i'd prefer to keep the page, and go forward with it using whatever ideas the group feels are worthwhile. I really appreciate your input. qthanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, hi. Sorry if I'm making a pres out of u and me ;-> but I think of you as somebody who might share some of the upkeep duties for IPCOLL. Maybe we can talk about it at some point. Meanwhile, may we deputize you to be a lighthearted moderator of the Lounge, but tough on NPA/AGF etc as needed? With Carol's recent posting, feel free to copy my response from the project Talk or modify for your own purposes. How's that sounds? Thanks. HG | Talk 22:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi HG. I really appreciate your idea. I feel very complimented. However, sorry, I'm really not in a position to take on any such role right now. Sorry. for one thing I need to be able to direct my attention to other things currently going on in my "real" life. i find Wikipedia a very good outlet, but I wouldn;'t want it to become a commitment in and of itself.

for another thing, even thouigh I do enjoy IPCOLL, I don;t want to commit to be a meditator, simply because I foten have strong views, and I myself don't always know when I am about to take a strong position on an issue. so I don;'t want to take a role where I might have to undermine my own ability to be a neutral figure. So I guess I couldn;'t. however, i really do aprpeciate your willingness to have me in that role,. I do aprpeeciate it greatly. I will try to think of ways to contrbute off and on in other, more periodic ways. thanks so much for writing. feel free write further on this anytime. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, you've pretty much said this before, sorry if I seem stubborn or obtuse. Be well, HG | Talk 22:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

you don't at all. in fact you seem extremely generous for even making the offer. thanks very much. I appreciate it. please feel free to stay in touch. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 23:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Mediations, dispute resolutions

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For the Mediation Committee, Daniel 07:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

Whoops. Sorry about that. I should have written "Abstain," but the instructions said to write either "Agree" or "Disagree" because all comments would be removed. I apologize for stopping the process. That was not my intention. I just didn't care enough about the issue to get involved in a formal mediation. If you try again to get a request for mediation accepted, I will not stop it a second time. Again, I sincerely apologize for inadvertently causing the mediation to be declined.

I wrote the following on my own user talk page. If you wish to respond, please respond there. I just posted it here to make sure you read it and no that I meant no harm. --GHcool (talk) 18:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, ok. I totallty understand. don't worry about it at all. it's totally ok. In fact, it's more than ok, because as it turns out, we reached a resolution and the article is now ok again. thanks so much for writing. it's totally not a big deal at all. thanks again. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-12-19 Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Hi, I want to try and help, therefore I offer to take this case, and have contacted the other involved parties inviting them to summarise their opinions on the matter. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 15:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

excellent! thanks so much. by the way, if you look over some of my posts in the last fifteen minutes, we are already trying to make some progress towards some resolution. However, if you could also get involved, that might be exactly the kind of help we need to reach resolution. By the way, are you also able to see to it that some admin somewhere will finally remove the edit protection, once this is all resolved? thanks so much. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

CfD: Category:Jewish political status

Hi Sm8900: Category:Jewish political status has been nominated for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 December 21#Category:Jewish political status. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 12:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

CfD: Category:Israeli-Palestinian conflict issues ==

Hi again Sm8900: Category:Israeli-Palestinian conflict issues has been nominated for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 December 21#Category:Israeli-Palestinian conflict issues. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 12:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Flash Wars

A tag has been placed on Flash Wars requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for web content.

user page deleted

Simply because I wonder how to leave wikipedia and this is a first good step :-) Alithien 18:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

oh, ok. I hear you. however, I think right now your efforts are needed here at Wikipedia. :-) Hope you'll stick around for a bit, or at least be here every so often. I don;'t edit so much myself anymore, so i sort of undersatand. Thanks for writing. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 19:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

IP conflict overview articles

Hi Steve. You apparently want a list of key articles on IP conflict, articles that give overviews of abstract topics. It's a worthy goal. But: (1) we don't use categories to identify key articles. (2) even if you don't like how I've redescribed your effort as "key" articles, my core point is that "overview" and "abstract" do not work as sufficiently sharp criteria to select articles for the category. "Abstract" can be interpreted to apply to nearly any article. Overview is in the eyes of the viewer. Catch my drift? Thanks. HG | Talk 18:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you could look into some library or bibliographic classification schemes on this topic. Perhaps this would give you an idea of how to define your goal more narrowly. HG | Talk 18:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, but sorry, i disagree. How is it a false or subjective distinction to say that an article like Six Day War, Sinai peninsula, Golda Meir, Battle of Jenin is fundamentally different than Palestinian textbook controversy?

besides, regardless of what one individual editor may think, clearly some people do find this useful. And i feel it does have a coherent idea behind it. So I do feel that in my opinion that it defeinitely seems worth keeping. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that's an excellent idea you have, it would indeed be very useful. You realise all these articles will have to be extensively re-written presently, when Israelis suddenly realise that preaching hatred of the natives is not really very clever and no longer tolerable? PR^talk 21:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

that's your opinion. it is an extreme one. Articles at Wikipedia are based on consensus, not on thwe opinion of any one person, whether me or anyone else. Kindly do not act like I possess any power of decision over the general nature of Wikipedia. If you wish to propose general changes to articles, please do so at the article pages. I don't think gratuitous crticism of Israel is helpful, any more than gratuitous criticism of Palestininas woiuld be. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 00:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Other editors

Woulpd like to express my interest in this mediation. I have frequently edited articles on current developments in this conflict. I don't claim to have any decisive knowledge on this specific topic or this meditation, though. Just wanted to briefly state intesrest, and hopefully contribute something positive as things go on. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

This mediation is presumably coming to an end, if you think either party has missed something, it would be best to contact them on their TalkPage. PR^talk 22:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Thx for your interest! Please, if you have further thoughts, share them on my or GHcools talk page. Thx. --JaapBoBo (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sm8900,
Again, thanks for your interest in the mediation I am involved in. However, I would appreciate it if you would not make comments directly on the mediation talk page. As JaapBoBo said on 23 December, you are welcome to leave comments on either my or his user talk page, but the mediation page itself should be reserved only for me, JaapBoBo, and the mediator. Thank you for understanding and I trust it won't happen again. --GHcool (talk) 20:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

hi. thanks for your note. i understand your concerns, and I don't mind you making that request. however, i'm not sure i understand. Aren't other editors allowed to generally post in a mdeiation? Sorry, but this was my understanding. could you please explain why that is sucha problem? thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 22:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Debt-based monetary system

I issued a redirect as part of being bold. There was extensive discussion in the talk page, where it was clear that the creators of the article were POV-pushing. The article title is a term used by conspiracy theorists, in order to push a POV about fractional reserve banking. 69.138.16.202 (talk) 17:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi I appreciate your reply, and I understand your concerns. However, some editors are choosing to work within the article, to find a way to hopefully to address those issues and to improve the article. thanks for your helpful response. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing to improve on the article because there is no such thing as a "debt-based monetary system" or "debt money." They are POV pushing terms used by non-economists and conspiracy theorists. 69.138.16.202 (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

re: haplogro up L

There are two "haplogroup Ls," one is on the Y chromosome, one is in the mitochondria. My comment got it totally backwards which is why i removed it. The guy is still a fringe pov-pusher who's abusing science, but my specific comment was wrong. <eleland/talkedits> 00:35, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. i appreciate all your input. It's really great to have you here at my talk page, and to hear your ideas and input. please feel free to continue writing anytime. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: need some help.

Currently, at least, there's no simple, well-defined way of writing a fair-use rationale. You just have to read around and get a feel for it, and develop a method of writing them yourself. They're a headache to write but they have to be done, and in time you get a feel for them.

I've added an *incomplete* rationale template for the image. I don't really know what the purpose of it is, so you'll have to justify its presence yourself, I'm afraid. CountingPine (talk) 18:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

ok. that sounds good as a way to look at this. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

wow. actually, what you did was a huge help. thanks. I've also added some more text. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 18:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

coordinator election

The Wikiproject History is going to elect 3 coordinators. As a member you are invited to participate. Wandalstouring (talk) 12:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 20 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Valley of Peace initiative, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done! Bencherlite^Talk 00:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I see you already got an answer. :-) --BorgQueen (talk) 04:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, bencherlite! and thanks also Borg Queen for your help! Appreciate it! (Never thought I'd be thanking a Borg, but oh well. :-) live long and prosper. ) Appreciate it. this is great. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Israeli settlement

Thanks, will take a look. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words Steve – it's always a pleasure to work with you. I don't always agree with you, but I often do. It's lamentable how "sides" develop on these articles, and I admire your willingness to part company with yours where appropriate. Many of us, including me, need to step up and do more of that.--G-Dett (talk) 20:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate that. It's good to hear your thoughts. i also hope i'm able to meet that standard sometimes too. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Israeli-Palestine intro

actually if you don't mind, could you add your suggestion to the actual list (rather than reply to me), and then maybe sign it so others you know added it? that way we keep it clean and clear. cheers Suicup (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

ok. guess that sounds good. thanks.

Thanks

Thank you for the kind words. Shoah in Norway and related articles have a lot of work ahead, but I'd like to bring one of them to featured article status. I've collected about 80% of the secondary sources dedicated to this topic, including the two authoritative works by Abrahamsen and Mendelsohn. More research is being done though, both by the universities of Oslo and Bergen directly, the Holocaust Center in Oslo, the Falstad Center, and reporters and historians. The report from the Skarpnes Commission is very rich, and I'll be citing it more specifically as I get through it. The Norwegian victims of the Holocaust are a very small percentage of the total, but this gives us the means to be more specific about their history. I appreciate edits and feedback; so far I'm the only editor proficient in Norwegian (and German) who is contributing on this. --Leifern (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of browser-based Flash games

An editor has nominated List of browser-based Flash games, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of browser-based Flash games and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 21:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

-there are only 2 things that would help further First is additional notable games. If it does get deleted, wait for another one or two and resubmit it. But what would really help is if you can find an independently published review of one of the games, that discusses specifically the relevance of it being based upon Flash. DGG (talk) 16:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

good point. i agree with both your suggestions. thanks for your input. that sounds like probably one of the best ways to pursue this. i will try to do that. thanks for your help. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Article discussion advice

Hey, just a friendly note. What you are doing here and here could easily be seen as canvassing. You may or may not be familiar with that policy, but I would recommend a quick read before posting any other messages to other editors to try to sway a discussion for deletion. Thanks, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

sanction

Unfortunately i have had no choice but to report you to an administrator for this edit. Regards Suicup (talk) 01:14, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia event notices, newsletters

NYC Meetup: June 1, 2008

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday June 1st, Columbia University area Last: 3/16/2008

In the afternoon, we will hold a session dedicated to meta:Wikimedia New York City activities, elect a board of directors, and hold salon-style group discussions on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects (see the last meeting's minutes).

We'll also review our recent Wikipedia Takes Manhattan event, and make preparations for our exciting successor Wiki Week bonanza, being planned with Columbia University students for September or October.

In the evening, we'll share dinner and chat at a local restaurant, and (weather permitting) hold a late-night astronomy event at Columbia's telescopes.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Invite list.

Also, check out our regional US Wikimedia chapters blog Wiki Northeast (and we're open to guest posts).
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Doctor Who

WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter, March 2008

	The Space-Time Telegraph
	The WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter
	Issue 1	March 2008
Project News We have five new participants: Sm9800, Seanor3, T saston, Type 40, Jammy0002. One editor has left the project: StuartDD. The Doctor Who portal has expanded to increase the number of selected stories to 33. Articles of note New featured articles None New featured article candidates Voyage of the Damned (Doctor Who) (FAC) New good articles Dalek (Doctor Who episode) Astrid Peth Delisted articles None Proposals A proposal for changing the layout of the episode pages is under way here. A discussion about the formatting of the cast lists in episode pages is under way here. A discussion to move United Nations Intelligence Taskforce to UNIT is under way here. News The Torchwood project has become a task-force under the project's scope. The Torchwood series 2 finale airs on 4th April, and the 4th series of Doctor Who will start to air on 5th April. For the Doctor Who project, Sceptre (talk) 19:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC) You have received this letter because you are on the newsletter recipients list. To opt-out, please remove your name.