24may1819

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Tower College (February 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted because it included copyrighted content, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. You are welcome to write an article on the subject, but please do not use copyrighted work.

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KylieTastic (talk) 13:58, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, 24may1819, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

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Hello, I have no conflict of interest in creating this entry for ‘Tower College’. I do not work for or represent this school in any way. Please could you let me know how I can best proceed? Many thanks. 24may1819 (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

You may follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Your first article to create a draft, which you can then submit for review. GoingBatty (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks for your reply. I have twice written drafts and they have been declined, most recently because of ‘conflict of interest’. However, I do not have any conflict of interest in writing this article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24may1819 (talk • contribs) 08:41, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

(I've organized this talk page a bit and put things in chronological order. Things were getting scattered about.) The article referenced above appears to have been declined, and then deleted, due to copyright violations...not conflict-of-interest. The concern about possible conflict-of-interest is a separate matter. You might want to consider the live-help option mentioned above, where you can chat with experienced editors and have your questions answered in real-time. —Scottyoak2 (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

External links

Hi, please read Wikipedia:External links and section WP:LINKSTOAVOID particularly item 10. Social networking sites (such as Myspace, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram), chat or discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), Twitter feeds, Usenet newsgroups or email lists.. Also please stop piping (i.e. editing wikilinks) where not necessary. Particularly we do not usually insert punctuation into wikilinks, and we do not change the name of the destination page per Wikipedia:Piped link and other supporting best practice. Koncorde (talk) 15:47, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, for the benefit of other editors, can you please leave accurate edit summaries. Stating "Minor addition" when adding more than a dozen or so characters, or making a grammatical change, is misleading. This for example is clearly not a minor addition to the Mary Whitehouse article. Koncorde (talk) 16:08, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

To reiterate, per this change and message above we do not use Twitter as a source. Koncorde (talk) 15:49, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 4

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Listed buildings in Culcheth and Glazebury, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Historic counties. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Tower College (July 15)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

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DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi DoubleGrazing (talk). This article has far more references than a lot of similar Wikipedia entries of independent schools in the area, so I’m not sure why it has been rejected. Any help appreciated. 24may1819 (talk) 20:15, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

World of Glass (St Helens)

I have moved this article back to draftspace for now while you resolve the issues identified. For some reason the article has bypassed the Articles for creation process. Some redaction of copypaste material may be necessary before it is moved the mainspace. Please do not move it to mainspace before the issues are resolved. Dormskirk (talk) 10:51, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your help Dormskirk. I have edited the exhibitions section and had previously added more references so there are now what looks to me like a fair number. If there is anything else you can recommend, I would be happy to hear from you. 24may1819 (talk) 12:54, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

The second paragraph needs a citation but otherwise I agree that the referencing is now fine. Dormskirk (talk) 13:24, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Great - thanks Dormskirk! I’ve added a citation for the second paragraph of exhibits and some extra info (with references) for the official opening and comments of the original chairman.

Speedy deletion nomination of Tower College

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A tag has been placed on Tower College, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:02, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

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Phyllis Bowman moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Phyllis Bowman, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 15:01, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Move of St Helens, Merseyside

So what you have done is basically the improper method of requesting a move. Critically it ignores the fact that there are dozens of St Helens in the world. The use of Merseyside has nothing to do with any other town but is related to differentiating St Helens, Merseyside from St Helens, Isle of Wight for example. Worse still, now the article isn't even called St Helens but St Helens. This is both ridiculous and obviously going to cause issues in search engines and indexing until it is repaired. Please, do not move pages like that. You are still a relatively new and inexperienced editor and this is a significant disruption. Koncorde (talk) 23:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, I appreciate your comments. What would have been the proper way to request such a move? Always open to improving my Wikipedia contribution. 👍 24may1819 (talk) 08:36, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

See WP:RSPM if you want to move the town to a different qualifier though such a move will need to satisfy WP:UKPLACE and St Helens, England is against that guideline and there are at least 2 other places called "St Helens" in England and St Helens, Lancashire would also be inappropriate since its no longer in Lancashire. If you want to move the town to St Helens (that is to say make it the primary topic like Chorley) is then see WP:RMPM and the 2nd move needs to be from "St Helens" to "St Helens (disambiguation)". Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

July 2022

Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living (or recently deceased) persons, as you did to David Haigh. WP:DOB is one of the more important areas of WP:BLP. Toddst1 (talk) 03:24, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your help - Haigh’s DOB is listed here - https://prabook.com/web/david.haigh/2538083. is this an acceptable source? If so, how do I reference it? 24may1819 (talk) 10:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Prabook content is user generated, so no, it is not accepted as a reliable source. Please also remember to log in to your account when editing. Melcous (talk) 23:41, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Yes, I always log into my account when editing. 👍 24may1819 (talk) 08:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

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Flags

Please do not put flags into Infoboxes. See WP:INFOBOXFLAGS. Look and you will see they are not present in the vast majority of UK settlement articles. 10mmsocket (talk) 15:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the info - I wasn’t aware of this. 24may1819 (talk) 15:59, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

November 2023

Your recent editing history at City of London shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
And 4 others. Take it to talk. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:10, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I am not engaged in an edit war. I am simply adding information that is accurate. I have quoted the UK Government website and this supports what I have edited, my edit isn’t controversial by any means. 24may1819 (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

You have made five separate reverts against WP:ONUS which states: The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. None of those should have been reverted in without discussion. And, to be clear, there is an established consensus on wikipedia that We do not take the minority view that the historic counties still exist with the former boundaries. This is in the guidance in my edit summaries that you summarily reverted. This is edit warring. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:21, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy many thanks for your further comments. The existence of historic counties is not a ‘minority view’. Here is U.K. Government guidance on the subject: “England’s historic and traditional counties still exist, and are now recognised by the government - including the likes of Cumberland, Huntingdonshire, Westmorland and Middlesex.” See the Government website from 23 April 2013 - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/eric-pickles-celebrate-st-george-and-englands-traditional-counties. This is just one example from many on gov.uk - it is time for Wikipedia to catch up as they are definitely lagging behind on this. 24may1819 (talk) 16:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I am aware of that government news story, yes. Note carefully the wording, which will have been carefully chosen: In a symbolic move, Eric Pickles will assert that England’s historic and traditional counties still exist. So no legal instrument. Eric Pickles was the Local Government Secretary at the time, in a former administration. The secretary of state is a position on the UK executive, and speaks for the executive, not the legislature. Parliament did not legislate the counties back into existence, and we merely have Eric Pickles will assert... You may be unaware of the Government convention, also, that when a secretary of state or minister speaks in the capacity of their office, their names are not used. Instead it would be "the local government secretary announced..." But here, it is "Eric Pickles will assert." As the article says up front, this is a symbolic move. It has no effect on the legislative position, and nor was it binding on any future secretary of state.

There has been a lot of discussion on this matter at Wikipedia:WikiProject London. See, for instance, this archive Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London/Archive 12. But ultimately this is a matter of policy and the policy is at the locations I put in the edsums: WP:UKTOWNS and WP:UKCOUNTIES. If you think the consensus is wrong, you can open discussions and perhaps start an RfC with a view to changing the guideline - but as things stand, in Wikivoice, we say that Middlesex (for instance) is a historic county but it no longer exists within its former borders. Legislatively it was abolished. That is the current consensus view. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply.

The traditional counties were not legislated out of existence, so they cannot be legislated back into existence.

Counties for 1,000 years have been geographical and cultural subdivisions of the country, unrelated to any administration - whether local or national.

What wikipedia is getting confused by is that, when local government was first created in 1888/9, separate entities (known as administrative ‘counties’) were created to run alongside the ancient counties.

They were always separate from the ancient, geographical (historic/traditional) counties.

The ancient or geographical counties are mentioned in hundreds of Acts of Parliament dating back centuries.

They have never been abolished and there are far more references to them than to any post-19th Century admin zones (confusingly known as administrative ‘counties’). 24may1819 (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy if you look at the 1891 Census (the first census following the 1888/9 Act creating ‘administrative counties’), it is clear that the new administrative counties were separate and distinct entities from the ancient counties.

In fact, all population data is recorded twice - once using the administrative county or county borough boundaries and secondly using the ancient county boundaries.

(See Census of England and Wales 1891.)

It is clear from this that the new ‘admin counties’ were in existence alongside the ancient (historic) counties.

This continues to be the case today, so it makes sense for Wikipedia to include the historic counties alongside administrative and ceremonial counties. 24may1819 (talk) 16:36, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

This is all thoroughly covered in the previous discussions I pointed you to at WikiProject London. If you wish to challenge the consensus, this is the wrong place to do it. Start a discussion at the WikiProject or the talk page of the guidelines. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy Fast forward to 2024: the Office for National Statistics Index of Place Names Locator clearly lists every city, town, village etc with both ‘ceremonial county’ and historic county.

Also, Ordnance Survey maps online include both ‘ceremonial county’ and historic county for all of Great Britain.

Thanks for your advice - I will have a look at WikiProject. 👍 24may1819 (talk) 14:38, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Now see what the OS say about counties: "OS has been mapping the changing physical landscape of Great Britain for the past 224 years. It is not only the landscape which has changed, but our county boundaries have also changed over the past two centuries." [1] A historical county layer is good information for both OS and ONS, but does not imply they think historical counties still exist in their former borders. They say otherwise. Also note that they additionally produce both administrative boundaries and, separately, lieutenancies. You may wish to read the past discussion carefully before opening the subject. Good luck with that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:00, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

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