AWCBoris

Please add new comments at the end of this page - I've moved your help request down there.  Chzz  ►  16:48, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

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Hello, AWCBoris, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Novaseminary (talk) 15:03, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Edits without sources

Hi AWCBoris. I have reverted your edits to Pastoral counseling and wanted to let you know why. The edits were not sourced and the inlcusion of external links violated various aspects of WP:ELNO and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Sourcing is very important on Wikipedia. You may want to read WP:RS (for the requirement for sources) and WP:CITE (for how to do it). And I have noticed that you have left edit summaries on some of your edits. That is a great habit to get into since it makes it much easier on other editors to understand what you have done and why (WP:ES). Happy editing! Novaseminary (talk) 21:48, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Novaseminary. It's not clear to me exactly what you were hoping I'd do. Were you wishing I had sourced the list of organizations (which was in fact pulled from the Journal of Pastoral Care's wesite), or were you upset that I included any relevant oganizations (I had deliberately chosen the format 'includes' so that others could add other organizations; I am not a member of any of these organizations and my primary purpose is not advertising), or were you upset that I included the organizations' website and did not limit myself to the official website, or did you just want the list to appear under a title 'External Links' and not 'Professional Organizations'? I would add that the article had a note on it requesting additional information; I was responding to that request. AWCBoris (talk) 22:20, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

• Oh, don't worry, nobody is (or should be anyway) upset with you or your edits. The edits just didn't quite conply with WP guidelines (so I changed around some and reverted others, depending). The Pastoral counseling should focus on what pastoral counseling is, who does it, etc. Adding a list of organizations related to a given subject, especially without sources indicating the any of the organizations merit discussion in the subject's article, is not often a good idea because Wikipedia is not a directory. If in describing pastoral counseling, giving its history, major participants, etc., it is appropriate to mention one of the groups, then that is great; the organization should be mentioned . There should be a reliable, third-party source supporting whatever fact the group was mentioned as a part of and the mention should not violate WP:UNDUE. Adding external links to the organizations in this article doesn't work because per WP:EL any ELs on the Pastoral counseling article should directly relate to the topic (which is why an official link is fine on an article covering the particular organization (WP:ELOFFICIAL]). Links to the particular organization on this article will probably violate WP:ELNO # 19. For the patoral counseling article I would focus on finding good RSs (newspaper artciles, journals, reputably published books, etc) that discuss some aspect or many aspect of pastoral counseling, then add in the facts you can get out fo the sources (with citations back to those sources). On a related note, for the American Association of Pastoral Counselors I would focus on finding third-party sources that indicate how the group meets WP:ORG. Coverage in a newspaper describing the organization (or maybe its positions, meetings, history) would go a long way to that end. Cheers! Novaseminary (talk) 22:37, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Help with ISBN

{{helpme}} - I'd like to add the isbn of foreign editions of an author's publications. Do I need to do a whole extra book cite, which I think might be tiresome for readers, or is there some way to say 'Australian edition' and give the extra isbn? I didn't see it on the cite instructions.

If this is as a reference for a fact, then you'd specify only the edition you used to get the fact from.

If it is for some kind of bibliography, then I suggest just adding "(Australia: ISBN 1234567890)" or something, after the rest of the info.

For more help, maybe talk to helpers live, with this.

Or, possibly ask on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Literature.  Chzz  ►  16:48, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

References

I wanted to write to fill yo in on a trick that will help cite each fact in the Wallace Clift article, and elsewhere. You can use the same reference without it being inserted as two separate footnotes by "naming" any reference you would like to use multiple times. For example, you can type <ref name=somename> and then the rest of the ref as normal. Subsequent uses of this reference need only <ref name=somename /> without anything else. That way every fact can be cited without gumming things up too much. I suspect some of the facts I tagged and now have removed from Wallace Clift are supported by existing refs (but they are not available online so I couldn't just do it myself) and this named ref trick could be used. See how I have consolidated the cites to the Episcopal Clerical Directory with this edit. Happy editing! Novaseminary (talk) 03:23, 26 September 2010 (UTC) Thanks! You are quite right - almost all those basic facts are in the ECD, and of course it's not normal academic practice to footnote every sentence with the same footnote. Naming a reference is very helpful, and I'll use it elsewhere as well.AWCBoris (talk) 11:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Wallace Clift photo?

Great work on the Wallace Clift article. You wouldn't happen to have a photo that could be uploaded and then added to the article (maybe of him presenting at a conference or at the ceremony awarding the scholarship named after him). Some of the RSs you've added have photos in them, but we can't just copy those, or course. Anyway, keep up the good work! Novaseminary (talk) 14:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikilink

Hi Novaseminary - I notice that on the AAPC article the wikilink for the Association for Clinical Pastoral Education goes to the Chaplain article. It would make far more sense for it to link to the article on Clinical Pastoral Education, but frankly I don't know how to do that. Could you fix it, please? Thanks.

 Done It is a redirect, so I just changed the target to the better one you suggested. Good catch. At some point, the organization should get its own article (which is I presume why the redirect was created in thr first place)... P.S. Next time you would like help from me, please add the note to my talk page. At some point after I comment on somebody's talk page, I stop watch-listing it so as to keep my watchlist from getting to clogged up. I'd hate to miss a message from you because I culled my watchlist. Of course, I never stop watch listing my own talk. Happy editing!!Novaseminary (talk) 19:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

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