User talk:Aktsu/Archives/2009/April

MMA

ok, Since I have bugged my other two people I will start with you. I noticed on some of the redlinks (is there a term for the page does not exist) instead of giving me the option to create a page Wiki now launches me into creating a page. Is this normal? 2) Some of the links I look at have deleted pages there- such as Jason Thacker- from TUF season 1, why was this page deleted? I know of the "google test" and Thacker is listed there. --David.snipes (talk) 22:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure, no problem :) If you click on a redlink, I do believe it goes right into the editor instead of giving you the option so that's normal. Looking at the Jason Thacker page I seems it was speedily deleted because it didn't assert why subject might be notable (criteria A7). You should probably read Wikipedia:Notability to get a feel for what is required for someone/something to qualify for an article. Basically, the subject needs to have been sufficiently covered in independent sources considered reliable. For MMA, if a fighters has a professional record (i.e. is listed on Sherdog) and have at least a few fights in a major organization they're generally considered notable. I didn't know anything about Thacker before reading up on him now, and I guess you could create a somewhat decent article on him, but he's IMO borderline (only small appearance in TUF and one pro fight). Anyway, I can't stop you from creating articles but if you're going to, please try to make them more than simple stubs echoing what's on Sherdog - or at the very least make sure that it's possible to make the article more than just a few lines long. Just ask if you need any more help. --aktsu ^(t / c) 23:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Understood- But my point is the completeness of the Show as a whole- we can lookat most of the fighters- and with the success of the show, they were a part of it and I think that alone should show them on Wiki- for nothing else is I am of the opinion that the redlink just shows incompleteness and I thought that was the plan behind the projects. I know you can;t stop me (or anyone) from making pages- but If you and the other MMA people don;t think there is a point to it, then why do so? David.snipes (talk) 14:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Notability

What is included in noteable?

In the NFL Draft- every pick is notable, and looking at someguidelines there are a TON of players that are no longer considered noteable but were back in the prism of time.

Each and every pick in the 2006 Draft has his own Wiki-page from 1-255 and other notable players , but the 1996 Draft has a bunch of Red Lines, the first one at pick 38! The Second Round Alone has 5 Redlinks. The fourth Round only links to 15 player pages after I fixed the Donnie_Edwards one

under the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability link (thanks to Aktsu for the link) They should ALL have thier own pages. I call into these two "laws" on that page

-- Notability requires objective evidence

-- Notability is not temporary

If the year is 2019, are the 2006 picks as relevant as the 1996 picks are today? SO.

1. We need to wait until 5 years after the draft to create anypages- to ensure they do something 2. We (users) are going to be deleting a TON of pages every year.

Objective evidence is there- there are a TON of pages dedicated to each draft pick on ESPN,CNNSI,NFL(or the other sports) etc.

And if by the standards- they are not temporary- they are still listed in the history of the NFL and that team.

Back to the Jason Thacker(etc) pages.

1. The Ultimate Fighter launched the UFC in the American Mindset- and long after all those fighters are retired they will still be looked at as long as the UFC and MMA as a whole are around (kind of like Super Bowl is to the NFL) I think each and every person on that show contributed to its success.

2. I look at Wiki as a web-equvilent of The Enclopedia, When you go to a page in the book- you do not see a article that says, please see the New York Times, I don't feel that we should click on Jason Von Flue and get a responce, please see Sherdog as A) Wiki is subject to THIER content, and b) They do have ads&opinions two things Wiki avoids.

Sorry for the long post, but I was intending to do a good bit of work on the redlinks- as I am almost OCD on completeness, I don't want to begin a futile project and want to make sure I stay up to the standards people like you set. David.snipes (talk) 15:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Andre galvao

there is an article Andre galvao and i recently made Andre Galvao, mine is more detailed and varfied, while the other is not. I was wondering if you could help me? Sepulwiki 19:52, 5 April 2009 (UTC) User:Sepulwiki

The Rolling Camel

See the user's talk page as well as my block log for more. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 21:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Consensus on title for TapouT

I have seen the article bouncing around and invite your participation at Talk:TapouT#Achieving consensus on a title to reach agreement on a name. Alansohn (talk) 21:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Once Over?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:David.snipes/Sandbox_3

Do you think this is good enough Now?

--David.snipes (talk) 17:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Giving it a quick look-over, there's a few things: there's still some text verbatim from some of the sources (e.g. here). It's not really necessary to explain what UFC 1 was - you can just link to that article (also, some of the explanatory text is a copyvio). It needs some cleanup releated to the WP:Manual of Style and some grammar fixes/spelling mistakes. The lead should be a summary of the entire article (per WP:MOS). The cite book should be between ref-tags and be at the end of the info it is sourcing. You have "American sex offenders" as a category, but no mention of it in the article. Try to avoid jargon like "tap out", you said he submitted in the previous line so just keep using that. The prose needs some work IMO, and the article is kinda fragmented. You're definetly getting there though. The first article is alway difficult, especially when you're unaware of the various policies and guidelines like WP:MOS. --aktsu ^(t / c) 17:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The American sex Offender is on the original page- so I copied that over.

I have messed and messed with the ref and the book and cannot get it working right- can you fix that so I can see the changes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by David.snipes (talk • contribs) 01:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

why did you remove my words without leaving anything in their place

trivia? i think it's not only relevant to the section underwhich it was placed but i suggest it's extremely interesting too. unsourced? it was sourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.253.235 (talk) 17:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I repliced at User talk:86.162.253.235. --aktsu ^(t / c) 20:47, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Jason Chambers Page

Hi-

It has come to my attention that my bio was recently updated by a user whom u flaggd for using copyrighted material. The bio she posted was written by me, for the Bellator website and does not violate any copyright laws. Thank you!

Jason Chambers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jason Chambers (talk • contribs) 00:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Could you than "re-write the article using the information?" Im not nearly as websavy as you, but its a headache that I cannot update my bio with "MY" bio. lol. Thank you sir :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jason Chambers (talk • contribs) 01:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

•  Done :) Let me know if there's any factual errors. There were some things I wasn't completely sure about, such as if MMA Legacy is a documentary or not. --aktsu ^(t / c) 15:14, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Videos?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_97 --David.snipes (talk) 12:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed as linkspam. Also found some at UFC 99. --aktsu ^(t / c) 14:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Thinking about getting yourself a mop?

Hi there Aktsu. I was wondering, are you interested in becoming an administrator at all? Your contributions seem fine and you have a patient and friendly way of dealing with people, so I wanted to ask whether you have thought about that before and if so, why you did not choose to pursue it. Regards SoWhy 19:02, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I've considered it, but with some mistakes here and there no _real_ need for it (though I could probably help out at 3RRN or CSD or something. Not RPP in any case seeing as it feels like half my request have been denied :P) I figured there's no point in pursuing it any time soon. I also get the impression I should have more article-work. Someone clicking through the articles I've listed on my userpage would probably be pretty underwhelmed but I'm still kinda proud of them because they're about somewhat obscure MMA-fighters with very little info available. Maybe I'm just phased by some of the RFA's I've seen, but I can easily see myself getting shot down... --aktsu ^(t / c) 20:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, you got more article building experience than I ever had and I passed RFA as well. It's not that big of a deal nowadays (and so it seems). You might want to go for editor review in any case though, that way you can get multiple specific feedback as to what you need to improve. That said, if you ever consider adminship, I'd be happy to help if I can. Regards SoWhy 21:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

UFC 94

Hey Atksu, I have actually posted a live version of the article now at UFC 94. Please make any fixes as you see fit over there! I have also made a message at WT:MMA. Bad intentionz (talk) 23:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Chris Tuchscherer‎ Article (re)write

So in one of my trips through articles removing locations flags I came across an article for Chris Tuchscherer‎ that basically had nothing in it. I decided to see if I could write up a decent article about him. Though I've made lots of small edits to MMA articles, this is the first major work I've done (not including episode summaries for TUF). If you have a chance, could you take a look at it and make sure I didn't forget something or have something out of whack? Looking for another set of eyes to see if there's something I'm missing. Thanks! --TreyGeek (talk) 20:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks good IMO. Did a copyedit fixing some WP:MOS issues and tried to improve the flow a little. The Dakota Grappler article is a little iffy (posted on a forum but originally from a newsletter) but I see no reason to remove it. Content looks good going by what (little) is available, but there should definetly be a mention that he is trying out for TUF 10 (could also add (from that article) "[he] was enabled to start training full time in MMA [when] Brock Lesnar enlisted Tuchscherer to become one of his full time training partners). --aktsu ^(t / c) 08:12, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the copyedits; I'll keep them in mind in the future. I did think about adding in the information about him trying out for TUF 10. I decided against it only because I didn't want to have to remember to deal with it later in the year in the event he isn't selected. Though it seems like he would be a shoe-in to be on the show. Thanks again. --TreyGeek (talk) 15:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Liberal semi-protection

Thanks for finding those BLP issues. It's good to see more people getting involved. You should probably put new entries at the bottom of the Pending section, otherwise they might get missed. Cheers Kevin (talk) 02:21, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Dean Amasinger up for deletion

Hey Aktsu! I'm unsure what to do in regards to the Dean Amasinger article. It's flagged to be deleted in a few days. However, I don't see it being any worse of an article than a lot of other MMA fighter articles. (In fact, it's a lot better than a couple I've run across.) At the same time, my opinions of notability regarding MMA fighters doesn't match with what many in the MMA WikiProject generally go with. (IOW, a lot of TUF competitors in my opinion aren't notable enough for an article. In actuality a lot of them do, and on one occasion I was overridden by an admin that a TUF competitor was notable for an article. But that's not my concern anymore or in this case.)

To make an already long question short, would you agree with the deletion of the article due to lack of notability or would you think that sticking a {{hangon}} tag on the article would be the best route?

Thanks for your help/advice.--TreyGeek (talk) 00:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, that one is tough. On one side, he has competed in professional MMA - thus techincally meeting WP:ATHELETE - but he's only fought in minor shows and is thus not actually very notable. This is a weakness with WP:ATHELETE in regards to MMA as almost everyone is a professional and thus notable per that guideline. Looking past that technicality though and instead going by the spirit of WP:ATHELETE (participatetion at the highes level) he's not notable, and were that the end of it I would endorse deletion. With him participating in TUF though, he'll at worst recieve more coverage than the average fighter at his level and at best become a pretty big star.

In that light and remembering that articles can be recreated/restored if the future, I guess it's no big deal were it to be deleted but a case can certainly be made for keeping it. Without knowing much he's been featured on the show I'm somewhat tempted to let it go though. While the article content is a lot better than many other MMA biographies, the subject has not actually done anything remotly notable yet (IMO). I would imagine an AFD at it's current state would result in a lot of delete-votes on the basis that being on TV does not automatically make you notable (though I'm not actually sure of that. I'll try to find out what the consensus is on random reality-show participants now). Were he to drop out in his next (first after elimination?) fight and be out of the UFC I'd almost certainly support deletion, but were he to say end up on the undercard on the finale I'd start to be more unsure of what to do.

BTW, anyone (including the creator) can removed such PROD-tag for any reason in which case AFD would be the next step (there is assertion of notability so no speedy). --aktsu ^(t / c) 01:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the article is up for speedy deletion (I don't think). The article wasn't created by me, but since I find myself keeping an eye on article of, at least recent, TUF competitors it's on my radar. (It was created by one of the 2-3 folks who create articles on almost any MMA fighter, in this case User:Justastud15). I also agree with many of your points. Thus far, Amasinger has fought only in the elimination round of TUF 10 and hasn't had much mention beyond that. It's unknown how he will do in the "1st round" match when it occurs.

I agree with many of your comments. User:Justastud15 has blanked his talk page which included a notice that the article was up for deletion. That makes me think he'll ignore the potential deletion (I'm going to ask on his talk page to be sure). As I mentioned, I don't support having articles for a number of MMA fighters that have articles. I'm inclined to not do anything about the situation, even if the article gets deleted. That said I do have hesitation on two points: 1) Should there be a request for a delay considering he is on a currently aired TV show in the event he does go beyond the first round and potentially get a UFC contract (regardless of if he wins the show); and 2) Is this issue significant enough to be raised on the MMA Project talk page? (I have strong doubts on the second point.) --TreyGeek (talk) 02:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, you can't really delay it. If you remove the PROD-tag (no hangon for PROD, just removal of the tag) it'll have to go to AFD the next time someone want to delete it. Personally I would let it be deleted and unless he becomes a huge star hope it never gets recreated just because I hate the low-quality barely-updated articles on undercard-fighters etc. If it isn't deleted now and he advances in the show he'll probably end up notable enough to survive AFD, meaning I'll have to live with one more article on my already-to-long watchlist of 2,078 articles to keep vandalism-free. That's just me being a cynical pesimist in regards to stubs though :). If I look past my hate for them, I don't mind it being kept and rather brought up for AFD should he actually be eliminated back to obscurity. It's probably no point in bringing it up at WP:MMA. If it's deleted it can still be recreated and if it's kept it's only worth bringing up should it go to AFD. --aktsu ^(t / c) 02:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

That's what I get for skimming the deletion notice. I now see where it says to not add a {{hangon}} response. As, I think, I mentioned before, I have no problems with a lot of these TUF fighters not having an article. I think, for now, I'll let this article be and just watch it. Thanks for your help, particularly in recognizing the type of deletion request that I failed to see. It is good to see, at least, that my thoughts are similar to yours on what kinds of fighters should have articles. --TreyGeek (talk) 03:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Ampersand use

The rule as I understand it is that "in running prose" the word "and" should "mainly" be used instead of an ampersand.

But section headings are not running prose.

Thus, and especially given that the ampersand may also be used in tables, infoboxes, and other places where space is limited, I think it appropriate ... and certainly acceptable ... to use it is section headings.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:19, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Abe Ani Combat Club cleanup

Thanks for tightening up my article. Sometimes it isn't apparent just how sloppy some of my writing is until a second person proofreads it, and I truly appreciate your revisions. You saved me. Unak78 (talk) 08:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

• AACC deserved a page, as do a lot of Japanese fight teams, but it's so hard to get good information on them. I really want to get more info on teams like Wajyutsu Keisyukai and others as well as creat an article for Team RASCAL. Your knowledge of Japanese MMA would be helpful in this. Thanks again.Unak78 (talk) 09:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:Sengoku

Hi, I made sure of your message. I cannot advise you well because I'm weak in English, but I'll try as hard as I can.

For example, Japanese name of this event is "戦極 ～第八陣～" (Sengoku Daihachijin). "戦極" (Sengoku) is a proper noun. "第八" (Daihachi) stand for "8th." Then, in this case, I guess "陣" (Jin) has a double meaning. Literally, means "battle," "fight" or "war." And I think it imply "event."

I'm sorry for my poor English. I repeat that I'm not good at English. It would be better for you to ask other people who can speak both English and Japanese.

P.S. You say "seriously, dream, what are you doing?" I agree with you. It is crazy of them to make José Canseco fight against Choi Hong-man. [1] --UCinternational (talk) 10:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:José Canseco

• [2] Article
• [3] Photo

According to this Japanese　source

Jose Canseco seems to be a conversion from the baseball player to the martial artist. My English may be inappropriate, because I am Japanese.--KANESUE 12:50, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Can you take a look?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:David.snipes/sandbox_4

Thanks I still have more info to add, of course- but your thoughts? --David.snipes (talk) 22:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)