Alexander Bell

This user is a member of WikiProject NASCAR.

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Question

Dear Caster23,

I hope this message finds you well.

I am still kind of novice on Wiki, so could you please explain why did you delete my post and link to the Interactive NASCAR Maps while keeping the link to the essentially similar Interactive Map developed by other person (see external link titled “Interactive map of all current race tracks in North America” on the page titled “List of NASCAR race tracks”) ?

If you do not provide a reasonable explanation, then please stop deleting my posting; otherwise I would consider it as a serious violation of my equal rights as a Wiki contributor.

Kind Regards,

Alex B.

Re: Question

I am not necessarily removing the link to the site that you keep adding, I'm removing the section you keep adding entitled "Interactive NASCAR Maps". It is inappropriate for Wikipedia, as it is not notable and seems to be self promotion. Judging by the various warnings on this talk page, you should not re-add the content that keeps being removed. Caster23^{talk Contribs} 20:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I must say that Caster23 sums up my opinion as well. At the least, you are violating Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest, which alone could get you blocked. Leave the section out and have a (meaning one) link on the tracks page. Also, you are close to violating Wikipedia:Three Revert Rule which could also get you blocked.--Michael Greiner 23:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, looking at your maps, your race track locations appear to be way off (Las Vegas is in the middle of Arizona, Kansas in Missouri, etc.) on the first zoom level. You should probably focus on fixing that first. (And the sponsors wanted bar isn't going to give you any friends) --Michael Greiner 00:05, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments by Alex Bell

Dear Caster23,

Thanks for your quick response.

I still think that Interactive NASCAR Maps (see the links: http://www.nascaromm.com/NascarMap.aspx and http://www.nascaromm.com/NascarMapWeather.aspx have certain value added to the NASCAR page. This service is in public domain and is free to use. It definitely helps to promote and popularize NASCAR Moto-sport, which is probably one of the main goals of NASCAR page on Wiki. Plus, it also improves the overall User convenience when finding NASCAR-related Geo-facts and other local info. These Maps are developed based on the latest-greatest technology set from the Microsoft. The other one with link “permitted” on the Wiki, developed totally independently by another gentleman, utilized Google map (link: http://betona.googlepages.com/racing.html Copyright notice from his page says: "Google map marker coding © 2006 Tom Perry"). Both solutions are essentially modern sophisticated hi-tech web applications and, IMHO, they must be introduced to the NASCAR fans, probably BOTH placed in additional section called “Interactive NASCAR Maps”. After all, Wiki itself is a "Child of Internet"; then it should be more adoptive to its technological siblings.

It terms of self-promoting: any essential technological breakthrough could be interpreted as self-promoting because in many cases it could be traced to its author. Would you identify as self-promotion any reference to "telephone" or "voice communication" made by great inventor Alexander G. Bell? Probably not. Then, IMHO it should not be that bad if the reference to some new piece of web technology placed on Wiki, which definitely makes the overall User experience much better, could be somehow identified (btw, indirectly) with the name of the Author.

If you agree with me on this issue, then please restore the section mentioned above with its content. If not, then at least keep my links in the same way as you allowed it to another gentleman (RE: Google Map mentioned above).

Your comments highly invited. Kind Regards,

Alex B.

PS. NASCAR Rules! :)

Alexander Bell 21:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

RE: to Michael Greiner

Hello Michael,

I thought the issue was over, but your latest comment forced me to response. You keep me busy, Sir :).

Issue #1. Accusation of the “Conflict of Interest”

You know, there are probably tens of millions of NASCAR fans out there. Therefore, the opinion of two, three or thirty three guys is still just a drop in an ocean compare to the level of national consensus. Thus, I would highly recommend you and other folks to demonstrate more synergetic and friendly approach dealing with your “brothers-in-web”, avoiding such over-zealotry and jumping so easily to frivolous accusation of conflict of interest (and related stuff as spam, self-promotion, etc.) This is actually the point where the whole problem started – with pointing finger at me and my submissions. Sorry, Michael - where do you see the conflict of interest? The whole site is non-commercial and the Maps are in public domain, free to use. What kind of “wrong doing” did you find here? I would tell - you probably could find tons of links to commercial sites on Wiki and related promotional stuff, but it looks like not bothering you a lot. Just one important thing to mention: when looking at your personal page I have found couple items, which are worthy to mention in the context of “Conflict of interest”. The first one stated (quote): “This user is a Close Personal Friend of "Weird Al" Yankovic” and second one stated (quote) “This user helped promote "Weird Al" Yankovic to featured article status". Well, applying the same rules to your own declarations we could conclude that you are promoting your “close personal friend” here on Wiki, which is very close to the same “sin” of “Conflict of Interest” you are accusing me. Well, I am rather friendly person and would like to end this type of discussion. “Weird Al” Yankovic is probably a great guy, true celebrity, and I wish him all the success. But still some bitter taste left: looks like one set of rules is applied to the celebrities and another one to an average Alexander Bell (joke:). You know, American people in general, and I bet – most of NASCAR fans have very negative opinion regarding such societal phenomena as “celebrity obsession” (“celebretism” – if anybody coined already this term?).

Issue #2. Criticism of the Map

While not perfect, Maps are Geo-coded pretty accurately; you can see it clearly by “zooming” the image. Some explanation in regards to the default zoom level: the animated images (waving flags) have an area centered around the object, so the exact location is not intuitively clear. In this regards, the standardized pushpin will point more accurately at the object, though the aesthetic impression would degrade. Anyway, thanks for this note. And, as you see – there is no more “Sponsors/Partners” on the Map page :).

Well, probably enough talk. Have fun, Michael and other folks. Best regards to "Weird Al" Yankovic.

TGIF…Enjoy.

Alex B.

Alexander Bell 02:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The personal friend of Al thing is a inside joke among his fans referring to his e-mail newsletter. I have never personally met Al or have talked to him (I have seen him in concert). Lighten up. Also please read WP:EL#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest. --Michael Greiner 03:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Now, could you please tell me how to archive the old stuff on my discussion page? It looks like you are kinda of veteran here. Thanks. Alexander Bell 04:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Follow the directions at WP:ARCHIVE. --Michael Greiner 04:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Michael. Alexander Bell 14:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Question

Alex, you have been told several times by several different contributors on this page why that section (not necessarily the link however) is inappropriate for Wikipedia, and have also been told that if you continue to add it, you may violate the three revert rule or find yourself guilty of edit-warring.

Please note that any disputed content such as this should be discussed on the article's Talk page, and a consensus reached with other contributors, before you add it back in, if that is the result of the discussion. If you get agreement on the Talk page then by all means add it back in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liverpool Scouse (talk • contribs) 10:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

RE: to Liverpool Scouse

Section is already removed, but please keep the links. Still I have a strong feeling that having "Interactive Map" section would benefit the NASCAR page. Regards, Alex B. Alexander Bell 15:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

If it's a strong feeling then put a section on it on the relevant talk page, and after a fewe days, if others agree, put it back in. Liverpool Scouse 15:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

RE: to Liverpool Scouse

I did already - see the discussion on NASCAR page. Thanks, anyway. Alexander Bell 16:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

LiveBook

Hey there, your article seems to be very spammy and reads much like an advertisement. Also, there are no sources or any claims to notability that make your article worthy of inclusion. Will you please read WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:N before creating another article? Thanks! GlassCobra 00:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

RE: Hello,

The full article will be titled "Interactive Live Book", which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPAM: it does not cite a single commercial site or any commercial proposal or any self-promotion! Please read carefully. The article describes the revolutionary new concept of RIA/Web20 online publication. Please do not touch it, especially when I am working on it.

Thanks. Alexander Bell 00:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the state that the article is currently reads very much like an advertisement for some sort of product. I've undeleted the version that I just deleted and moved it to your userspace for you to work on, but I would ask that you get the approval of myself or another administrator before you move it back into project space. Thanks. GlassCobra 01:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sir,

I would assume that editing the content related to the Internet you are familiar with the core technology set, such as Web 2.0, AJAX, RIA. I would reiterate, that these technology set IS DE FACTO THE INTERNET STANDARDS, NOT RELATED TO ANY PARTICULAR COMPANY. So your statement about spam/advertisement makes no sense at all: Internet Live Books is an evolving Genre based on these standard technologies and, btw, not a single Book was listed so far; then - what advertisement, what product?

I ask you kindly to re-consider your position in this case and do not interfere with my work. Thanks.

Alexander Bell 01:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't intend to interfere anymore as long as you don't mind holding to the guidelines that I set you out: seeing as you have admitted that it is still in progress, keep it in your userspace until it's written neutrally and has some decent sources, get an okay to post it, and then you can move it back to project space. GlassCobra 02:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Interactive Live Book

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Interactive Live Book, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Interactive Live Book. White 720 (talk) 04:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

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