Avigoldstein

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Avigoldstein, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:35, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

October 2010

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Palestinian territories. Users who edit disruptively or refuse to collaborate with others may be blocked if they continue. In particular the three-revert rule states that making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the talk page to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording and content that gains consensus among editors. If unsuccessful then do not edit war even if you believe you are right. Post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 17:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Palestinian territories

Hi Avi. I recommend that you discuss your proposed changes at Talk:Palestinian territories instead of repeatedly inserting them into the article. If you make the same edit repeatedly, you are likely to be blocked. (See WP:Edit warring.)

As far as renaming the article, you should also discuss this idea on the article's Talk page. Follow the instructions at WP:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves.

Please leave me a message if you have any questions. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, I notice lots of your edits got delete very quickly. Don't let them frustrate you, this is how it works here. They go around deleting whatever they don't like. All you can do is find ways to put in the truth, with reference, not take their method and put in propaganda opinions. If we work hard we will see a day when Wikipedia lives up to its name and has accurate referenced balanced information, not anti-Israel bias propaganda by Israel haters. Just require our time and effort to find reference material! Hope you will stay around. LibiBamizrach (talk) 23:30, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors, as you did on Palestinian territories. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Thank you. Please refrain from accusing others of anti-semitism. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 01:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I specifically did not attack the contributor in question; it was the contributor who resorted to a personal attack, snidely suggesting that I "read more books" about the subject, as if my previous post was not intelligent. I agree absolutely that there should not be ad hominem attacks on Wikipedia. Although I believe that the Boycott Divestment Sanctions movement is anti-Semitic, I have removed the term "anti-Semitic" from my post. Avigoldstein (talk) 04:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Avigoldstein (talk) 04:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Nableezy's behaviour is problematic in general, I suggest just ignoring him as best you can.

On the BDS/anti-semitism issue, I'd advise against making that comparison in general, as it's statistically likely that many Jewish person (Naturei Karta, etc.) are supportive of the BDS movement. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 05:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Good point, Andrensath, but I would suggest that the fact that fringe groups and self-haters exist among Jews does not detract from the description of an organization they happen to support. If Israel, the Jewish state, is singled out for BDS, no other variable explaining this singling out, that makes BDS anti-Semitic, even if some misguided Jews support it.Avigoldstein (talk) 14:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

4 Tildes

Avi, 4 tildes ~~~~ is part of Wiki mark up language, it is automagically substituted to be your signature, inside Wiki servers. You need to sign your talk contributions for clarity. More info is here WP:T. BTW, it would be interesting to know, without invading your WP:PRIVACY and disclosing too much of your personal info, since Wiki is anonymous, what kind of keyboard do you use? No tildes really? My laptop keyboard have tilde in left-up corner: above 'Tab', bellow 'F1' and left of '1/!'. My tilde is on the same button together with '`' sign and I have to press 'Shift'-'`' to produce single '~'. BTW in Hebrew mode the same button produces ';'. Anyway, copy and paste is also good, as long as it works! AgadaUrbanit (talk) 19:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

My bad, Agada, I found it!Avigoldstein (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, the toolbar at the top of the edit box has an icon of a pencil (fifth from the left). If you click on it, it inserts four tildes for you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Adrensath, have you been following the talk page? If so, you will see that Nab unilaterally reverted my edit. Does he have the right to do so? If no, how do I proceed? And if yes, why?Avigoldstein (talk) 21:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Per standard operating procedure, yes, he does have that right. The next step (which is already being carried out) is to discuss the edit, and if needed rework it into one that passes consensus. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 21:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

When you say it is already being carried out, what do you mean? We had a discussion and he decided to edit. How is that an ongoing discussion? And why exactly does he have the right to make a change?Avigoldstein (talk) 22:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I guess the main issue was with editors doubting reliability. However, this is a point I've learned from Nab, in case everybody consider the source as neutral WP:RS, no attribution is needed and the claim could be stated as a fact. Neutral wording is tricky, maybe looking how Chinese sources (for instance, very secondary in context of Israel-Palestine) look at the problem could demonstrate what is neutral and notable. You sound very smart and educated, so I'm not sure you need it, however let me give you couple of advices I've learned the hard way, in case you choose to persist with Wiki editing:

1. It is a good idea to care about Wiki generally and not only about Israel Palestinian conflict, specifically. My first Wiki edit was in Apache Tomcat article. Additionally I love Dune, Falafel and Irish whiskey ;).
2. Always assume good faith of other editors and always be civil. I personally just ignore incivility directed at myself and try to move on. Listen carefully to what other editors have to say, maybe you miss a point and always stay on topic. As Arik said, things that you see from here, you don't always see from there ;)
3. Do not silly revert. In case your change is reverted go to the article talk page and ask why.
4. Please read WP:CANVAS, this is also strictly disallowed, especially OFF-WIKI kind. There is legitimate ways to get more eyeballs on the issue you're concerned with. See Wikipedia:Dispute resolution for proper procedure.
5. Don't use multiple accounts. NEVER EVER. This is called WP:SOCK and could lead to indefinite block/ban. This is very disruptive.
6. It took me some time to learn about watch list feature. That is how I have found out about the dispute that we both were involved in. I followed the article. In short use this feature, follow number of different articles that you're interested in and that you can digest, from change list length point of view.
7. Finally, fight mindless vandalism!!! This is the main problem of Wikipedia.

Wiki is self documented and you appear as good reader. I know only a small fraction of Wiki rules. For instance simple Malik signature advice above was news to me. So I'm continuing to learn from other editors, Wiki system is extremely complicated if you ask me. And to make it absolutely clear, I disagreed with you in the past and will disagree with you in a future, if you will be wrong, imho. Though I've been sympathetic in the past, it does not mean a thing. And in any case my opinion does not matter. I'm often wrong. Make your own opinion. OK, I've wasted enough of my time for you Avi, I'm moving on. Good luck. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 02:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)