Aznfanatic

Griefing

I realize you don't edit much on Wikipedia, but what you are doing is not acceptable behavior. You erased valid content and one reference. If you are going to edit an article, make certain you don't destroy the work of others. And when you do something wrong, don't just expect others to fix it for you, and revert back to your version. Dream Focus 00:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm aware you're more experienced than I am, but I'd like to ask you to actually read my edit. I incorporated all of the previous methods. You stated that I removed the section on blocking and others, which was untrue. I also disagree with the statement that the older version is readable. In fact, if you look at it, training and aggroing are essentially the same, which would be noticeable had the methods been listed in a coherent manner. Aznfanatic (talk) 00:55, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

You removed:

Blocking another player's way so they cannot move to or from a particular area, or access an in-game resource (such as a non-player character).

Deliberately blocking shots from a player's own team or blocking a player's view by standing in front of them so they can not damage the enemy.

You added:

In team games, griefers will deliberately perform actions detrimental to team members' game performance. Methods include attacking teammates, wasting key game elements, stealing rewards, colluding with the opposition, and giving false information. They may also block or trap teammates to keep them from moving to or from an area, to hinder them while fighting an enemy, or to cause the victim to accidentally attack the griefer, often leading to an in-game penalty. More subtly, they may simply not play, leave the game, or fake extreme incompetence in order to put their team at a disadvantage.

So you removed information about playing games where you can not injure someone, who has decided to stand in front of you so you can't hit an enemy. You just shove everything together, when a bullet list is easier to read for most people. Other information was lost or made less coherent as well. Dream Focus 01:19, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

• You also removed blue links to relevant Wikipedia articles, a reference to a reliable source, and various other problems. I see you added "A common method of griefing is to trick other players into pressing a hotkey to quit the game." What game does this happen on, that one key could do it, and it not asking you to confirm it? Dream Focus 01:22, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok, I think you're right about that part. Sorry. Do you think there is any merit to rearranging the list, though? I honestly think there are several parts where the same or almost same technique is described, and that it's better for them to be put together. For the hotkey grief, in games like CS or TF2, F10 makes them leave the server. In Warcraft 3, Alt-QQ causes them to quit because they just press Q twice. The less computer literate seem to sometimes fall for Alt-F4 as well. Aznfanatic (talk) 01:30, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

That's something valid to add then, complete with examples. I don't see any reason to rearrange it as you did. The part that starts off "Griefers also may abuse game mechanics or glitches in order to gain an unfair advantage over their opponents." is wrong, since it then mentions two different unrelated things together, and also gives the wrong reason for camping. Camping a corpse isn't done to "gain an unfair advantage". Its done to cause them grief, they having no advantage doing that, just being jerks for their own amusement. Dream Focus 01:39, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Are you okay with it if I rearrange the order of the list, without changing the contents? In the case of spawn camping, like FPS, there is an advantage, since you get free kills. I guess it's not true for RPGs. With regards to cheating vs. griefing, I think there is an overlap, since at least some hackers or cheaters do so in order to frustrate their opponent rather than just pad stats. Ghosting is also currently on the list; among cheats, ghosting doesn't seem to me to be especially favored by griefers. Aznfanatic (talk) 01:56, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

It says: Abusing an in-game "Spectator Mode" to freely fly around the map and give information to allies, such as item spawns, enemy positions, and other information that the ally wouldn't have been able to know on his own. Some games block spectators from chatting with teammates, but this can be circumvented using an external chat program. They could do it just to grief someone, helping others find them so they can kill someone they don't like. As for camping, the way its originally worded before you changed it, is quite clear. "Camping at a corpse or spawn area to repeatedly kill players as they resurrect, to prevent them from being able to play, when this behavior is not intentionally permitted." Dream Focus 02:03, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Can you cool it with the accusatory language? I was merely answering your statement, and I've already admitted I was wrong about the original rearrangement. Aznfanatic (talk) 02:15, 10 October 2014 (UTC)