Barbiekool

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Again, welcome! The Sharpest Lives 20:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

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Forever (Mariah Carey song)

May I ask how you found the article? It's always interesting to know how people come across things to edit and maybe where more links could be or something? Heartfox (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello! Whenever I listen to albums, I tend to look up their respective Wikipedia articles. I was listening to the album "Daydream" by Mariah, as I'm a big fan of her. I clicked on the link of the song and that's how I found it! I can try finding some sources if you'd like :) Barbiekool (talk) 06:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

A Public Affair

Howdy! First of all, thanks for all the work you've been doing on the article. It's looking really good. Now, in regards to these track listings... There are quite a few albums that have many alternate track listings listed - I Am... Sasha Fierce and Rebel Heart immediately come to mind. WP:ALTTRACKLIST isn't a cut and dry policy and doesn't have to be followed to a T, as per the top it contains "advice and/or opinions". With that being said, I do think the information should be there. Who's to say that the European release of the album is somehow more important than the Japanese one? Even if they were removed and instead summarized, I don't think that would be to the benefit of the article as I don't think there's a clear way to do that. I think if there were more track listings than there are now, that might be excessive, but I think it's fine where it's at. One more might be too much, but it's not making the article look bad. They're short additions after all. Breaktheicees (talk) 09:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello! Thank you for the message! I do agree that I Am... Sasha Fierce and Rebel Heart do have elaborate tracklistings that need to be typed out. However, most of the bonus tracks listed there are new tracks, hence why I kept the European/British release as it contained the single "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'" and is notable enough in my opinion. I got rid of the retailer-exclusive remixes as they don't really differentiate from the original song. What I think we could do is add those remixes into the notes section like in B'Day. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know! Barbiekool (talk) 10:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

So, I am open to that idea, but is that really a better solution than what we currently have? B'Day has 11 track listings, the majority of which are significantly longer than those on A Public Affair. As for what we would keep if we did do something like that: first we've got the standard, obviously. I believe regional editions should absolutely be there - so the intitial European/International release and Japanese release. Then we've got the Reissue/Walmart edition which should also certainly be there. Next, there's the questionable "International digital reissue", though I'm not sure what the best title is for that since I can't find a clear timeframe/source for when it was actually released or even where. Another user just edited it to that title (it was previously European Digital edition), saying it was a "February 2007 reissue of August 2006 album. Album was already released internationally, so it was an updated reissued tracklist", but again there's no clear source for this. There is, however, a clear source for the album not having been released in the UK until February 2007 at all, despite having been released in Australia and Japan in August 2006... So "international" is a bit of a misnomer. It's confusing. Anyway, that leaves the Best Buy, Circuit City, and iTunes editions.

The Best Buy bonus DVD is unique and different enough. If we were to do this with the Circuit City and iTunes editions, what would we label these tracks as? "Retail-exclusive bonus tracks" wouldn't be accurate; the tracks are available on other editions. It just seems a bit clunky and a worse solution to do this just for two different release editions.

Also - confusingly, a couple of news articles also make note of a pre-order edition with "A Special Collector's Edition Bonus DVD Not Available Anywhere Else". [1][2] Just throwing that out there in case you happen to be able to find any more concrete information on that. Best Buy also said theirs is "exclusive" so I'm confused as to whether they're the same or not. [3] Breaktheicees (talk) 01:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Small addition - there's apparently one more edition that was released internationally. (I think? It's not in the US store.) [4] With this new one, I'd be inclined to agree that it's getting to be a bit much. I still think they should be listed in some way, but this just makes it even more complicated. I found evidence that the aforementioned DVD is in fact different but not on anything that can be properly referenced. Breaktheicees (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I've actually looked at the "Special Collector's Edition Bonus DVD" and honestly, I don't think there's any concrete information about it besides that. I think adding a note in the lines of something like "Various editions of A Public Affair add remixes of the title track to the tracklisting" would be enough. I don't think we should keep the Circuit City, iTunes and probably Japanese editions as they all are just three versions of the song A Public Affair. Barbiekool (talk) 09:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I tried to consolidate it into a new, shorter version that I've been working on on my sandbox. It needs cleaning up but I think that might be a good compromise. Breaktheicees (talk) 19:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Not bad! I think that would be enough. Barbiekool (talk) 21:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey! So, I haven't changed it yet because I've been unsure if "additional tracks" is the right title for the section at the bottom. You'll notice that the section for "I Belong to Me" has an exceptionally long title, but this is necessary for consistency, understandability, and accuracy if we are going to do it like this. It appears that there are four major regional releases - Main (US/Canada/AUS), European (UK & at least one Asian country, at least according to Discogs), Japanese (Japan), and International (everywhere else). This is probably one of the strangest and least consistent album rollouts I've ever seen, especially for a record that wasn't a wild success. Breaktheicees (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Hm! I'm not really sure if that's the right title either. However, I think we could just add that and change it later if we find a better name.

I have been trying to focus on accuracy.

However, all editions were re-released with IBTM, hence why I just wrote "international reissue".¹ If it does seem confusing, I can change it to "worldwide reissue"

¹ References:

"This track was originally destined as a Wal-Mart-only bonus, but fans overwhelmingly voted it a favorite, so it is now being stripped on to all versions of her new disc."

Let's also inspect on Discogs:

Japanese edition; originally did not include it as seen on this promo copy:

Strangely enough, most of the tracklistings regardless of country/region highlight the track as a bonus track; this could also hint that in non-US countries, the album could've been solely available on import. Barbiekool (talk) 20:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

For the title, it's mostly because of the music video - it's not really a "track" per se, particularly on the CD. While it wasn't uncommon at the time for releases to have CD bonuses (though it was definitely dying out by the time A Public Affair was released), these often aren't included in the track listings on Wikipedia. It's not listed as a numbered track on the CD release but it is on the iTunes release... however, I am willing to look past that for the sake of consolidation.

What is now labeled the "U.S. iTunes and Amazon MP3 Edition" I had labeled as "U.S. iTunes and International Digital Edition" because I couldn't find this version of A Public Affair (with the Cass&Dubs Remix) on the U.S. Amazon store nor on the U.S. Spotify. It's in the U.K. and Mexico Amazon stores, though - [5] [6]. Using either of the labels at the end of the links but in the U.S. store brings up the standard reissue - [7].

In regards to the IBTM track, it seems like most editions of the album in certain territories were released with IBTM initially, such as that Japanese release, excluding the U.S. and AUS versions. Perhaps "U.S. Walmart, reissue, and worldwide (bonus track)" could be a good descriptor? Just to separate it from the "International Edition"... unless we can come up with a better term for that instead. It is strange that some editions mark it as a bonus track whereas others don't. Such a messy rollout.

It's also worth mentioning (which I'm sure you've seen) that Discogs lists a U.S. release of the European track listing. [8] I first thought that this was a mislabeling of the U.K. version (which doesn't have its own page on there), as the images show that it was copyrighted in 2007. However, they also show that it was released under Epic/Sony BMG and not RCA, her U.K. label. I then thought that perhaps RCA was being erronously attributed to this album in general, but they definitely weren't - [9] And then after researching it a bit too much, I've come to the conclusion that it's actually just an erronous listing of the European release [10] - released outside of the U.K. - incorrectly labeled as the U.S. release. That was annoying that the answer was that simple, haha. Breaktheicees (talk) 23:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Does make sense!

I don't think it's essential to write it as "U.S. Walmart" as most if not all Walmarts then were exclusive to the U.S. back then. So then it would turn out as "Walmart, reissue, and worldwide (bonus track)". I also think we should remove the brackets, so it would be as "Walmart, reissue, and worldwide bonus track". I think this is enough for the title.

Also, make sure to not use Discogs for granted. I've noticed people often add stuff there that is pretty baseless ! Barbiekool (talk) 13:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

@Breaktheicees, do you think we should change the heading of the tracklist to just "standard edition" instead of "North American and Australian standard edition"? I thought of this just now. Let me know your opinion! Barbiekool (talk) 17:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

So, I would usually be in support of that, but I think just because the Australian edition also has that tracklist, it should be specified. Like, if I were to look at it with it just saying "standard edition", I would assume that the version released in Australia had the "International" tracklist. Breaktheicees (talk) 20:07, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Understandable! I'll keep it as so then. Barbiekool (talk) 20:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)