Beerman5000
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If you're going to make comments on my discussion page, make sure you sign them. Thanks.
Why doesn't someone ask her why those poor misguided people who set themselves on fire for Falun Gong along with 2 little girls were shouting. Here's a hint: they didn't know it was going to hurt. They set themselves on fire because they were asked to do so by Falun Gong. They were used as pawns and it back-fired on Li Hongzhi, so they said they were set on fire, in broad daylight, while dozens of people watched, with petrol by the Chinese government. It must have been a chinese government ninjas who only made it look like they were pouring gasoline on themselves, because if you've seen a Hong Kong Kung Fu opera you know all chinese people can use kung fu to make themselves invisible.
No amount of propaganda will ever make me believe that Falun Gong is anything other than Li Hongzhi's retirement fund and yet another force in asia promoting universal prosperity at a very unseemly cost: your life, your free will and your money.
In response to your comments on Falun Gong talk
editHave you read the Falun Gong books yourself? Find me the parts which say what you just said. You're just repeating CCP propaganda. Furthermore, freedom of belief is a fundamental right. Christians believe Jesus walked on water and healed the sick, let's see you go to the Christianity page and start spreading hatred. And not only Falun Gong practitioner have testified to the persecution, but many, many people, such as psychiatrists, journalists, lawyers, human rights defenders and others. Have you read the story of Gao Zhisheng? It would benefit you to find his open letters to Hu and Wen and read them. He is just a human rights lawyer who has battled the corrupt system in China and he found out how awful it is. Go to China and try to speak out for peoples' rights and see how far you get. You'll get your head smashed in and you'll be thrown in jail for speaking up against the system. This is widely known. Falun Gong is just one of the more recent victims. Wake up to yourself.--Asdfg12345 03:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
In answer to asdfg's questions and assertions:
1. Yes, I have read a few pages of those detestable cult mock-ups in it's original language, my mother tongue. Care to guess what was lost in translation? Given his horrible command of the Chinese language "Mandarin", it was quite obviously re-written in english to be more palatable to westerners. Had you read the language in it's original printing your respect for him might dwindle. You think YOU know all about fa lun da fa? having read a translation that had been poured over by editors and translators far more educated than Li himself? The irony isn't lost on me.
2. which parts that say what specifically? If for a second you think he never told people not to use western medicine you are sadly mistaken; he, in fact, was repeating and reinforcing a quite widely held belief in much of china that western medicine is ineffective; particularly among the uneducated, which I am not. It is commonly peddled by many qi gong practitioners and chinese medicine proponents who are trying to compete in the rapidly expanding chinese economy. They didn't let me into the US because of my sparkling personality. Li widely spoke about the detriments of western medicine over the "medicine" contained within Falun Dafa. He's a "snake oil" peddler and mass deciever who only wants money and power; that or he is what he appears to be on the surface, a mad man who cannot be reasoned with. Western culture doesn't have the market cornered on religion for profit.
3. ... What gave the impression I am a christian or would give anyone deference to anyone of any faith in regard to right and wrong? Are you saying that because christians believe such ideas that I should give such claims deference to reality? I shall not. Freedom to believe anything does not excuse a man from instructing people to do terrible things to themselves and loved ones; not from ignorance, nor antipathy, nor malice. I do not hate the "true believers" of Falun Gong, they are victims. Most of his members in china were casual group practitioners who only did it for excercise anyway; had you a basic understanding of the chinese belief in excercise and vitality through vigorous and righteous living, perhaps the claims of Li would not seem so novel to you. Most falun gong members in china were only guilty of fad and desire to live long, healthy lives; not quite the true believers that li is fond of claiming they all were.
4. It is interesting that you should bring up the people that have testified to such things, tell me do you believe GW Bush's claims that WMD's are in Iraq? They had photos, and testimonies and claims by experts as well as lawyers and international investigative groups supporting the argument. Strange, coming from the other side of the ocean, it didn't look very convincing to me then either. Do you truly believe the hospital in shenyang is the heart of some dark experiment where dead bodies were routinely hauled around in large numbers? Let me clue you in about chinese people: They are scared of corpses and they gossip a lot. The secret would have been blown off of that place in a matter of days all, especially given that it right next to a busy street in a city of 7 million people and given that it is a public hospital. This is not fiction: i've driven right past that hospital at least a dozen times. It's unguarded and always has been.
5. You speak to me of lawyers given the litigous nature of the west? You should know from experience by now: lawyers will say nearly anything to win a case. in fact, they are sworn to do so regardless of their own beliefs. A lawyer hired by Amnesty International is no more a friend of the downtrodden and mistreated than he is paid to be. If he can make a claim that cannot be verified either true or false that helps his case, he will; given that most people outside of china have already been programmed to believe the worst from the CCP, it takes very little actual physical evidence of anything to convince them. The US Congress voted to give the power to make war on Iraq, surely something convinced them or perhaps they were already convinced, they only needed the most thread-bare manufactured evidence available to make their prejudices into something nearly tangible.
6. You are now probably labouring under the idea that I am pro-CCP or something of the sort, I am not. So perhaps it would do you some good to go to china and talk to people about how bad life is China under the CCP? I have lived there and seen directly how bad life can truly be. Not in the way you think though. it's a pretty common topic of discussion; why you'd think that people there don't understand that they all went through hell under Mao's direction is a simple product of narrow cultural understanding. I applaud such sentiments of charity that you've shown here, unfortunately I must "speak out" about the evil of Li Hongzhi; the world doesn't need another charlatan such as him.
7. As usual, when speaking about china to someone you are arguing against, you, like most people, will probably counter that I've been programmed by the CCP propaganda machine to hate Falun Gong/Tibet/Captalism/the west/christmas/baseball/etc and I can assure this is not the case. I pegged Falun Gong for what it is the second someone in my family brought those dumb books home in 1996. You think I'd never heard of a cult before? I loathed Li somewhere around page 3 in 1996, but I wrote him off as just another idiot peddling lower IQs to the masses. Don't tell me I thought he was just great until Xinhua came along 3 years later and said he was trying to build a cult following; let me tell you, it wasn't news to me, nor was it news to most people who had pegged Li for a yet another guy trying to make a buck any way he could.
Those books were free gifts to the employee's of Norinco, the PRC's weapons department. You see, they were very aggressively recruiting among members of government and it was widely understood why: if you make a gift (free books, free lessons) to a government official in china it is assumed automatically that you are looking for high powered connections. A common practice among corporations, but strange that a peaceful religion would instinctively seek such connections without poltical and financial motivations. I swear, if you had an inkling of understanding of chinese business culture and practices the truth of Li's mechinations would be more apparent.
The CCP is badly in need of reform. Just because that is true, doesn't mean that Li's version of events and the Falun Gong "holocaust" actually happened in the way they said it did. It is difficult to explain this to you, in a way that you would accept and I'm sure this has mostly fallen on deaf ears (pardon my pessimism) but please understand, I despise Li Hongzhi for a great many things and it's not xenophobia or prejudice that have colored my judgement, but the desire for real problems to be addressed rather than roaming mythical beasts of injustice. As long as such tall tales are counted among the "facts" about china, the reforms needed there will undoubtedly never truly materialize. It only serves to fan the flames that certain voices in china that would ignore all call for reform in china. Some people like the system the way it is, and that is quite a problem for me. Of course, I also hate greedy men and religous quacks, so, maybe that has something to do with it too.
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editIf you get some free time, please have a look here, I would appreciate your comments on the CIPFG and Epoch Times, as they relay to the FG series of articles as a whole. MrPrada (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- Could you also please take a look at this discussion? Martin Rundkvist (talk) 15:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Response
editHello. I removed your notes from my page. I appreciate your taking the time to write them when you did. I read them back then. I have read many books about China and the CCP, I speak Chinese, and I know dozens of Chinese people who have personally been persecuted, including being tortured or sent to forced labour camps for their beliefs. If you would like to take the time to find out about this stuff, you can. The violent history of the CCP is well-known. Falun Gong is just a peaceful group, and the persecution is just another political campaign, drawing on all the old manipulative and awful techniques. I have often thought how it resembles the Great Leap. Then, nearly the whole Chinese people were denied food. Now, it's a much smaller segment that is denied their beliefs. The topic is taboo, and all the same methods of repression, criticism, struggle, propaganda, lies, terror etc. are used. There has been so much written about this by academics who have done fieldwork over years or decades, drawing on a massive amount of documentary evidence, attesting to widescale crimes against humanity of every sort. It's not just Falun Gong. Anyway, I don't think I responded then because I realised I had no response that could satisfy you. I just feel sorry that you hold the views you do. By the way, if you respect the input of intelligent Chinese who care about the future of the country, maybe take a look at my userpage. It has a remark from He Qinglian, someone I respect. The way she posits the struggle of Falun Gong practitioners for freedom of belief against the repression of the CCP is largely how I see it; I think it's just that simple, and that it relates to that basic an issue of justice. Some people twist the whole thing into something unrecognisable, not based on facts but ideology. I don't know what to say to them. Thanks.--Asdfg12345 08:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
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