User talk:Blue Square Thing/Archive 6

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Regarding Tables

Hello, I recently saw you hide the tables from Delhi Capitals in 2019 article,so can I know exact reason??,thanks(Mr.Mani Raj Paul (talk) 02:10, 25 December 2018 (UTC))

They're totally empty yet. Wait until they play a match - I put it in the comment that hides them. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:35, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Recent disruption on your user talk page

Hi Blue Square Thing! Forgive the random introduction and message, but I was just going through and making sure all of the mass messages left by Pv sindhu were reverted, and I ran into your user talk page. Looking at the recent edit history for this page, I see that you've been bombarded with harassment and troll messages from a wide IP range. I just wanted to let you know that I temporarily added semi editing protection to your talk page (for 72 hours), and I also added indefinite full move protection to it as well (so that nobody can move your user talk page in an attempt to be disruptive). If this is not acceptable for you and you'd like any or all of the page protection I applied to be removed, please let me know (ping me here or message me directly on my user talk page) and I'll be happy to remove it. :-) Cheers - ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:23, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Percy Davis (Kent cricketer)

Hi BST. Incase you missed my update, CA shows his death date as November last year. I don't know if you're able to find a better (non-paywall) obit or not. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Good spot - I've not seen anything on the county stuff. I should think an obit might be in next season's handbook though so I'll keep an eye out. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:01, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: The 2019 annual has a splendid little obit for him, so we now know more than a little bit more about the chap. Thanks for pointing it out - it also has one for Bruce Darvell who died in 2005 but only just seems to have been noticed... Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:23, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

No problem - glad to help. I make sporadic checks of Cricket Archive's deaths in X year pages for updates. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:28, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Ooh, I didn't know they had those. Can you point me in the direction of a url at all? Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:29, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

2019. Don't forget to press ESC! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:50, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm getting quite good at judging the moment to press that - or I'll just use the old version of Opera I have on one machine which doesn't allow the paywall to activate... :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For your contributions to cricket related articles. Ruyaba (talk) 12:19, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Re:Infobox cricketer issues

You are talking about long-resolved issue, as I had quickly figured out how to add proper filled cricketer infoboxes. But even those early additions were correct, just incomplete, so your suggestions about "rubbish" and doing things "old fashioned way" are out of line. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Out of line? Well, that's taking them rather literally and out of context, but whatever. I guess I expected you to have least have previewed the articles before hitting the button. What with your experience and whathaveyou. But, you know, never mind. I'll not bother pointing out obvious issues next time I run into them - I'm glad it's resolved but I'm not sure how you expected me to have known that. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:14, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Birth, death, etc. places

I note that you have removed details of births, deaths and baptisms from many (I have not checked all your work) entries. What is the justification for this? Knowing, for example, that a Scot was born and died outside his own country, for example, is of interest, particularly if he played cricket for that country. If he is also 'notable' for the work he did in Scotland, it becomes even more interesting. But, apparently, we are not allowed to know these facts? Help in understanding this would be appreciated. Shipsview (talk) 21:35, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

WP:MOSBIO says that you put the dates of birth/death in brackets but not the place. Given that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of stubs all created by the same (now-banned) editor with the same MOS issues, I was simply getting them in line with the MOS. In a number of cases the places were, frankly, speculation by the editor as well. In an ideal world I'd have time to reformat each article to still include the information, but given the number of articles involved, it's more of a priority to get them in line with the MOS I'm afraid. Given that the MOS specified that at the time the original edits were made, it's a shame that the editor in question hadn't bothered to read it before they created hundreds of essentially similar stub articles. Sorry - in an ideal world I'd have reformatted; that will have to wait for someone who wants to develop the articles I'm afraid. In almost every case we're talking about people with very limited notability anyway. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:04, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, there's a thing. Format is more important than content! Who would have known? Shipsview (talk) 08:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

I understand your pov entirely, but, at the same time, there's a real need for some form of consistency over articles, especially biographies. The articles I've been working on are those on these two lists if you want to go through at start to add content.

• List of English cricketers (1787–1825)
• List of English cricketers (1826–1840)

Feel free to revert and then move information if you want to. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:37, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

ICC Americas

Hi there, I wonder if you can help with this page. I notice that the map of members has three colours: Red indicating full members, and both green and orange indicating Associate Members. I assume originally green indicated Affiliate Members and that someone has changed the legend so that they both now mean associates. I would like to recolour it or find a blank outline of the equivalent region to start from. I can't download the image and simply recolour it (like I did for the map on African Cricket Association) as it doesn't recolour very well. Do you know if there is a 'blank' map file anywhere for the Americas that can easily be coloured? Cheers (Lugnuts pointed me in your direction!) Bs1jac (talk) 13:00, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

It might recolour OK in Photoshop with a bit of jiggery-pokery. I might try that later. Any idea what colours you want? Same as the African one? I don't know where there are blank ones, but I'll try to take a look at some point over the next few days - I'm ridiculously busy at work for the next couple of evenings I'm afraid - GCSE coursework time of year... It would be handy to be able to find a set of decent maps for all sorts of uses. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:14, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

There are some pretty good ones such as File:Blank Map-Africa.svg but I can't find one that covers both north and south america (and has spots for the various island nations). I don't have photoshop, was just trying a simple refill using Paint, but obviously doesn't work if the original has been prepared in a certain way. I was thinking the same colours as for Africa, yes but it's not important. Bs1jac (talk) 18:48, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

It should work dead quickly with PS - the way Paint fills is 0 tolerance so it will presumably have really disliked the edges. I'll get to it at some point and rejig it first and then maybe look for some decent base maps and get a collection saved up to use. If it's not been done by the middle of the month can you kick me again with it?! Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:22, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: So, I've managed to get around to doing this and, at the same time, taught myself how to use vector graphics to do this sort of thing - which makes filling much easier once you have the faintest idea how to do it and what the hell the software's doing. So, I have a vector graphic map that can be exported as a PNG and trimmed and so on. But, I have questions before we get there...

1. Do you have any idea what the status of French collectivities and overseas stuff is? Do they count as associate members because they're part of France and France is an associate member? I'm thinking about places like Guadaloupe, French Guyana, Saint Martin and so on. Technically the ones which are DOMs are legally part of France, use the Euro etc... I'm wondering if a different colour (dark grey) might be appropriate for these?

2. And how about the Dutch ones that aren't part of the West Indies group - so Curacao, Aruba, Bonaire and so on?

3. What about former ICC members? I think Cuba was probably one once. That's the only one I know about in this part of the world.

4. On ether Europe page we have a separate colour for associate members with ODI status. Do you want to do that on this map as well - the US just got ODI status.

I'll probably cross-post this to the cricket wiki project to see if anyone knows there as well. I guess that on the whole it doesn't matter very much really, but it might be nice to get it right if we can. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Hi there. None of the French overseas departments etc are listed as Associate Members, so I assume they are considered a part of France, but yes France is an Associate. I would leave them a shade grey (as they wouldn't fall within ICC Americas regardless), and possibly add a footnote for them. Following the dissolution of the Dutch Antilles, Bonnaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba became an integral part of the Netherlands (the Caribbean Netherlands, or BES islands), so would count as such similar to those French ones (again, not under ICC Americas). Sint Maarten, Aruba and Curacao are 'countries with in the Kingdom of the Netherlands' but not a part of the Netherlands itself. Of those three, Sint Maarten is part of the West Indies; the other two are where I would be unsure. Not currently Associates in their own right, but if counted as part of the Netherlands, that would be different to Sint Maarten (which has the same status politically I believe). Cuba is the only former members as far as I have read elsewhere. Feel free to to quote me if you do raise it elsewhere. Not important really... I just like maps and the legend on that one is currently annoying! Bs1jac (talk) 20:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: That all makes sense. I've taken my map colouring to extremes and am working my way around the world (I used to teach geography so map colouring in is obviously cool...). It might be a good idea to redo all the maps - and we should then have a world one that works as well. Using vector graphics means it's virtually impossible to go wrong. My only problem looks like being Scotland - I shall have to teach myself more stuff before I can do that map again...

I've gone red (full member), dark orange (associate with ODI status), lighter orange (associate). That OK? Not hard to change now that I know how to Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Perfect. Exactly was I was trying to do. Yep Scotland could prove tricky! Ps: Sports, geography and flags... that's me too. Cheers. Bs1jac (talk) 21:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: done and uploaded. Let me know what you think - I have maps that can go for each assertion using the same scheme. I opted to not worry about the DOM etc... for now. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:07, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: That looks great. Thanks for doing this. Can even edit easily in Paint now (not that I would want to!). I updated the African one a while back (worked easily in Paint), but would be good to get them all into similar colour schemes and sections. Bs1jac (talk) 08:50, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Actually, is it just my eyes / screen or is the light orange used for Canada and Mexico, different to that used in South Americas? Bs1jac (talk) 08:53, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: They're the same colour - I think it's that they are next to the darker orange of the USA so it gives the illusion of difference on the smaller version.

In terms of editing, the SVG map I have is so much easier to use - you select Canada and it selects all the islands at the same time ad fills them in two more clicks - and there's no dithering around the edges as there would be with editing in other software. It is so much easier as to be ridiculous (once I'd got over the first half hour of not really knowing what I was doing in Illustrator). If there's more than just small bits of editing needed it'll be so much easier to edit the SVG - just shout and I can get this done whenever. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:07, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Cheers. I need to learn that. Just been trying to update teh African one to add ODI status to Namibia but it isn't letting me upload the new version (exact replica of the previous file description... I have limited experience with files in Wikipedia to be honest). Will leave these with you for when you have time! Bs1jac (talk) 09:09, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: It has let you upload it - you need to hard refresh the page when you look at it as the image is cached (probably - it sounds like I know what I'm talking about anyway). Not sure what the Windows shortcut is, but on a Mac it's Cmd+Alt+E, so try Ctrl+Shift+E on Windows. Then refresh the page.

I do have a version using the identical scheme if you want me to upload that. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: I knew that... wish I had remembered! Your version might be better anyway. I was also having trouble updating the legend with the correct colours- but I see you have just done that now. Thanks once again. Bs1jac (talk) 09:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: I've uploaded my version based on the SVG, mainly because it's bigger and so has slightly more possible uses. There might also be slightly less dithering around the edges perhaps. Hope you don't mind.

Maps are now on each region's pages. I'll sort the world map out at some point today or tomorrow as there are a few issues with it I need to tweak yet. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Just one thing. South Korea is a member of ICC East Asia-Pacific, but on the Asia page you have coloured it as a member of ACC (should be a fourth 'former member, now part of EAP', like Japan, or a member from a neighbouring region, like Indonesia). Bs1jac (talk) 10:54, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Balls. Thanks - I'll have to fix that later now... Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:57, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Done. I think. My two outstanding issues are colouring some of the tiny islands off the coast of China and finding a way to show the West Bank and Gaza as separate entities - both of which are difficult due to the way the base map has been set up. The English-Scottish border isn't great, but it'll do. If you spot anything else, let me know. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:29, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Page Issue

Hi, Almost every content of this page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maninder_Singh_(kabaddi) is directly based on Various national dailies so the information contained herein is not based on primary research. I have also added several citations. Still, it's displaying at the top that, it needs additional citations. I'm totally clueless and don't know how to remove those templates. Please have a look. Thanks. DeoxysX (talk) 14:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I've done some editing on it, the second edit removing the notes at the top (we call them hat notes). It might well be easier to this if you're not using a mobile view of the page - not sure if it's even possible to do it that was as I'll always use the desktop view. You can switch view at the bottom of the page, even on a phone or whatever. Hope that helps. Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:55, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. DeoxysX (talk) 18:24, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Kent CCC Kit

Hi, you reverted my addition to the Kent CCC infobox showing the team's traditional and contemporary first class kit with the comment "that's not what the team wear" without going into details. The traditional kit (knitted jumper and baggy cap on the right) is based on this image. The helmet on the left is based on this image and the contemporary jumper from this image. I cannot from those see what your issues are, so would you please clarify them so I can look at improving the image. Thanks! XrysD ^TALK 15:27, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Here is an image of this year's kit, with the Championship kit in the centre. There are at least two issues, accuracy aside, though.

1. The image you created breaches Kent's copyright of their logo.
2. It gives undue prominence to the Championship kit: if kit is to be included, we would need to include all three variations. Harrias ^talk 15:48, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your new objections. First all all, use of low resolution logos is permitted on WP as stated on the page for the Kent logo itself. Also would not the argument you make about the logo apply equally to graphics of the one day kits too? I agree it would be good to have the other kits but that is not a reason to not include the first class kit. Would you please address these points so we can resolve this, thanks! XrysD ^TALK 16:46, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Aplogies, I forgot fair use doesn't apply to files on commons! Best just let this file be deleted I think. What would you suggest as an alternative? I am happy to include all the kits if that will help satisfy your objections but I'm not sure how to get around the logo use. Your thoughts XrysD ^TALK 17:17, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Photos of people wearing the kit would probably be much better. Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:52, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Firstly, my apologies for not writing a longer edit summary. Please bear in mind that it was 5:30 am at the time! And thanks to Harrias for the points already. So, there are several issues here, beyond the logo.

• that's last years kit. There are some small changes - the shirt mainly tbf
• Kent don't use the modern, fleece gilet style at all in the CC. It's cable knit or cable knit.
• the red logo isn't used on CC jumpers. It is used on the CC shirt. The one-day and T20 shirts and jumpers use a different logo again. The ODC and T20 caps use a different logo as well
• the cap doesn't have piping on. At least, not one that I've ever seen.
• I'm not convinced by the style of the cap - Kent use a traditional British design, not a "baggy" at all. The shape doesn't look at all right to me. They also turn brown very quickly, but there you go.
• I'm not at all convinced that the infobox is the place for these, particularly not Championship kits as we end up with a white jumper with some stripes. Without Invicta that really becomes a little odd

Now, the other kits are a little tricky to produce vector graphics for I would think. The base colour schemes can be done, but it'll be the planes that cause the main problem. I really do think we'd be better showing any kits by photos somewhere in the prose. There are already photos of this year's one-day kit on commons.

So, yeah. I get what you're trying to do, but I don't think it really works and that really isn't what the chaps wear. Sorry Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:52, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. You're right, vector images with the one-day designs would be awkward to do which is part of the reason I didn't do them. Plus I really don't think they have the same traditions as the white kit. The cap graphic was created from a photo of a traditional cap I have laid flat so it is accurate but perhaps looks odd squashed like that. It's meant to be similar to the style that used to be on cigarette cards. The colour isn't meant to be piping - just to show the lines. But all moot really, if it isn't doing the job intended then leave it out. XrysD ^TALK 18:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The cap is odd though isn't it - the shape looks right in the cigarette card. I imagine it's the perspective, which is certainly something I find a lot harder to get in vector graphics. I'm just not necessarily convinced about the use of kits on cricket pages overall to be honest. Blue Square Thing (talk) 05:33, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks

We edit-conflicted:-) ∯WBG^converse 17:36, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Martin Guptill

I replied to you on Martin Guptill Talk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.238.13.130 (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Cricket statistics

How does editing batting statistics when the Australian innings are complete lead to errors? Are the editors on here retarded perhaps? It makes no sense, I'm just going to assume you're upset because I beat you to it. Cheers PaulieWalnuts94 (talk) 22:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

@PaulieWalnuts94: Because bowling statistics and catches are not updated reliably. Sometimes just the centuries are updated: what happens then is that someone else comes along and "adds one to it" - causing another error. Then someone updates everything at the end and "adds one to it". As for the average: are you working that out by yourself? If so, that's original research.

To put this in context, until recently we had several thousand infoboxes with parameter errors in. These are really simple errors to pick up - the preview will alert you to them. They're all clear now. That process of cleaning picked up that many cricket articles are simply updated poorly. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:18, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Rohit Sharma

Hello. You'll be pleased to know, I think, that the article is now pp-protected so that IPs cannot edit. Anyway, thanks very much for your support over several weeks which has not gone unnoticed. I'm glad it won't be at PCR any more.

As you are in the cricket project, could you please take a look sometime at what I've done to improve the article and make sure I haven't misunderstood any conventions or terminology or whatnot, especially around one-day games which I admit are somewhat beyond me. Rohit seems to be something of a one-day specialist. I follow test cricket but apart from the World Cup I don't care much for the slam-bash format.

I'll admit that my real interest in Rohit is not so much cricket as his animal welfare campaigning, though without cricket he would have no impact there. My wife and I are keen supporters of animal welfare and so I decided to do the best I can for Rohit's article, but please feel free to correct it where necessary. Thanks again and all the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 22:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

It looks much better. I don't know when I'll have time to take a more detailed look, but will certainly keep an eye on things. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:34, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

In spite of all the nonsense

In spite of all the nonsense that is going on right now, I want to thank you for fixing so many of the articles in Category:Zimbabwe Test cricketers that I pointed to in the knowledge that so many fixes needed to be done. I won't over-state the obvious, but for the situation to have been such for over 10 years was disappointing. Bobo. 19:14, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

No worries, it's something I need to get back to when I get the chance - at least to add some sources and some of the basic fixes. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:44, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

List of Bedfordshire County Cricket Club List A players

Following up from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dean Dass, this is an incomplete list of people in List of Bedfordshire County Cricket Club List A players that have little information and should be merged to that list. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

• Benjamin Banks (cricketer)
• Thomas Beck (cricketer)
• Peter Bichener
• Richard Blair
• Tony Bristow
• Douglas Clarke
• Nick Coles
• Oliver Clayson
• Simon Davis (English cricketer)
• Geoffrey Dawson (cricketer)
• Alan Dean (cricketer)
• Neil Folland - tagged for eight years

@FoxyGrampa75: There are a range of debates that could be had about that. Clayson, for example, played more than 50 Minor Counties matches for Beds, captained the side and there are references that could be used to improve the article (including at least one on the BBC fwiw). I can see a case for keeping his article, although I don't think I'd have time to improve it. In the same way, Dawson played loads for them. There are almost certainly sources which could be found for people like this. Iirc there were more obvious merger candidates further down the list in my view (West, for example).

Don't, btw, read my writing relatively little in the table as there being not so much on them. I was getting stale when I got to the top of the list! (having, for odd reasons, started at the bottom) Of course, in every case (I think) a reference from CricInfo could be added, although in most cases this will simply verify existence.

It might be worth starting a specific discussion about merging articles on the list talk page or, perhaps, at the cricket project talk page. I'd be interested to see if it were possible to reach any consensus there about the level of sourcing that's required to allow a page to be kept. AfD would be an alternative, but has its own issues.

Sorry that I can't be of more practical use here. I've worked the list up but there are other priorities for me just now - that 1825-1840 list, for example, isn't going to verify itself... Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:05, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

and working up the list above, Neil Folland could equally be redirected to List of Devon County Cricket Club List A players (which is just a wall of stats). I'd reserve redirecting to a specific list only where a player would fit no other similar list. Spike 'em (talk) 08:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

@Spike 'em: Which is an interesting problem if a player were to fall into the position of, say, Dass and be reasonably clearly at the fringes of notability. I guess you redirect to the most useful list - which would probably be the one he played more most frequently I guess? On the 1825-40 style lists I've tended to redirect to the first list they appear on, although I suppose that could be tweaked if they played, say, once in 1824 and five times in 1826.

Btw, how do you feel about that Devon list? Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:49, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Not very positively! There do seem to be quite a few similar lists that just feature a barrage of stats with splashes of bold / colour / symbols and I think that where a list could be used instead of individual articles that the name / timespan / 3-line-bio is far better. I guess in cases like Folland we could redirect him to what we consider to be his "primary" team and add a note linking to his entry on the other. Incidentally, I've added a list of Beds only players to the List talk page, and as you say discussion about redirecting them should be had there or at WT:CRIC Spike 'em (talk) 09:03, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

I tend to think the same way about the wall of stats approach. The bios are quite labour intensive, but at least they tell us something. I may see if it's viable to convert one of the statistical entries to a set of bios to see what happens if it's suggested (Suffolk probably as I've a better chance of finding local sources for that). The advantage is that in most cases there are about 100 players, so it's not too bad.

I saw the talk page - thanks for that. I'll take a more detailed look once I have more time. As I say, I think there are obvious ones that are probably on the keep side of the line, and others who are probably on the redirect side - it's where we end up drawing the line (as I said on the Dass AfD, I'm convinced that there are Minor Counties only players whom we could find enough sources on to justify their own biography). Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:18, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Only just seen this post, hope it's okay to chime in given that they are almost all my own article creations. I find myself asking the same thing for the umpteenth time. All other information on the article other than information about their career is superfluous. Not sure what more information people expect in these articles. Their shoe size? I wish we had had this conversation 15 years ago. If people are telling me that articles about single-appearance first-class/list A cricketers are inappropriate or non-satisfactory, based purely on information right in front of us, which is cited to specific sources, about their career, then people should have decided on different absolute guidelines 15 years ago. If people had decided these specific sources are "inappropriate", they should have told us 15 years ago. I ask myself what other information they expect to see in these articles.

Let's say they are also a player with many miscellaneous matches, as mentioned above. What do they expect to be mentioned about these miscellaneous matches, which isn't completely superfluous information? "John Smith also appeared in 15 matches for 'Men who wear green hats'. Except he was wearing an orange hat."

And if WP:ONESOURCE is a problem... then we can do something about that right there and then. Any player with a CA profile will also have a CI profile. Bobo. 22:47, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

@Bobo192: The reason I'm looking for more details - appearances for club sides, in the minor counties, biographical details and so on - is that it makes me more confident that we might find something substantial written on the person: which is what I'm looking for when it comes to more in depth sources. The more information we have, the more confident I am that we might be able to source something about them.

That compares with the sort of situation that I prefer to see merged to lists - so, for example, someone where we have only a surname and initial and know only that they played a single match for a particular team: well, I find it unlikely in that case that we have enough information about the person to turn up the sorts of sources that I'd be looking for to justify a full biography. Say, the case of Butcher (Hampshire cricketer), R. Vaidya or Bull (Kent cricketer). I think we're much more likely to be able to find sufficient information about Douglas Clarke - one of the Beds players.

There is a whole other debate that can be had over whether the criteria for inclusion might be re-worked. As I said somewhere else recently, one County Championship appearance might be a fair bar for inclusion. That might be a fairer bar than one appearance for Cambridge MCCU, for someone in the modern Logan Cup, someone in an amateur game from 1841 or a minor counties player making a single List A appearance. I know it's harder to deal with, but I tend to think that it might be more constructive to work along those lines, although I'm not convinced that there's any momentum behind that sort of change and understand exactly why the guidelines were drawn up as they were (I actually have much more of an issue with some of the ways in which the guidelines were changed over the years to add plenty of weasel to them). Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:05, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

If the "one County Championship" appearance criterion were put in place, would this exclude all cricketers from 1890 and before? Indeed, there is infinite amount of weasel to the guidelines, and this annoys me more than anything else, as well as being a disgusting slight to Jack, who as you know I considered one of my closest friends. When you add "one County Championship appearance" to the guidelines, are you talking about "one appearance in each relative country's domestic league/cup", to fit to players of other nationalities? And don't even get me started on people being able to weasel out of certain guidelines, given that's what's caused this problem all along... Bobo. 09:16, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm using CC as an example in all of this btw - see below for that!

It couldn't exclude people from before 1890, it just might place a different "qualification" on them - so, for example, Fuller Pilch is obviously notable; it seems reasonable that someone like Henry Sampson (English cricketer) is notable; how about someone like Arthur Savile if you just take his cricketing aspects (6 fc apps I think?) (which is a good example of where knowing other things helps, in my opinion, makes the article more likely to be a notable subject for a biography); how about Thomas Selby (cricketer, born 1791)? Or William Usmar - and there's a case where we know a bit more about the chap but the stuff that we know isn't really helping in my view. I think we could find a suitable line somewhere there - have you looked at what the ice hockey project do by the way?

In terms of other domestic competitions, someone mentioned a while ago that the idea of the current Logan Cup being considered as identical in sanding to the Championship was a total joke, and I have some sympathy with that view. I'd certainly be prepared to argue that the Sheffield Shield is of the same level as the CC. The issues would come at what time you drew any lines. Ice Hockey, again, seem to have done that. I've seen arguments made about footballers where the qualification of having not played in a fully professional league has been made. I guess I'm thinking about something along those lines in terms of modern cricket - obviously that doesn't work as well historically with cricket and I don't think I'd be arguing that someone who played loads of Logan Cup matches wouldn't be a suitable subject for a biography: although I think there's a case that if they only played a handful it might be possible to argue a case about notability.

I don't know if it's possible to come up with a more qualitative set of guidelines which maintain a quantitative line in some way? It probably isn't, which is a bit of a shame, but not something I'll lose any sleep about. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:32, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Is it ice hockey that has criteria of "one NHL appearance but 1+N for certain other leagues"? I would be completely uninterested in trying to conform to those guidelines unless there is, somewhere, a cited, sortable list of these stats from other competitions. Bobo. 10:29, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Do you mean in terms of how many appearances people have made so that someone could judge at what level notability might be found? Or just as a way of quickly determine who's likely to be notable? Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:47, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Interestingly, the user who created the article for Thomas Selby (1791), this was the only article he created which wasn't a redirect or another user's AFC request. Bobo. 10:36, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

I think Selby may be the chap involved in setting up the Kent club at Town Malling, but it's not proven easy to link the two. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:47, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Wade

Hello Blue Square Thing it is Oli2007mollie here just wondering after you reverted my edit to Matthew Wade you referred in the edit description about Spag basics just wondering if you could clarify what these are.

Thank you

Regards Oli2007mollie.

Sorry - spelling, punctuation and grammar. So, like leaving a space at the end of the sentence, using a comma in the 1,000 etc... (per style guide for Australian English as far as I know?)

I've moved your comment to the bottom of the page to make it easier to keep track. I'm also logged in and have used 4 ~ to sign my comments - read the links I put on your talk page and you'll see how to do these sorts of things. You can look at my reply as well (although it won't show the 4~) to see how I indented it using a colon (:). Little things that help - and are totally forgivable when you start btw) Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Hello Blue Square Thing just wondering WHY you reverted my edit on the Chris Gaffaney page because it was definitely factual as he umpired in the recent Headingley test in the 2019 ashes series. Thank you hope you get back to me soon 2001:8003:3947:2A00:C1BE:47B4:6A8E:B9B1 (talk) 10:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

He's umpired 29 (?) Tests. Why just mention that one? We wouldn't mention any of the others apart from his first unless there was something very notable about something he did in it. Although the Ashes is slightly more notable than many other Test series, it's not massively so - and he's umpired in a previous Ashes series. Arguably umpiring in Afghanistan's first Test is more notable than any of that.

Essentially, we don't need to include a blow by blow account of everything that happened in his career. We need a summary of any particularly notable events in **his** career. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:59, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Ok also I thought that your reply to me before in the Matthew Wade was quite rude effectively suggesting that I didn’t know Australian English. LIKE YOU HAVEN’T DONE A TYPO BEFORE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:3947:2A00:C1BE:47B4:6A8E:B9B1 (talk) 11:09, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Try not using a mobile device view - you may find it easier to do things like add content in the right place, add punctuation, capitalise, leave spaces between content and so on. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:39, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

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Chetsford (talk) 15:47, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Singh

Ahoy - yes, there is the possibility that some named players played for more than one team. Cheers - this is frustrating me a lot less right now. I'm finding other things to do - I'm halfway through putting all my music together. Cheers. Bobo. 08:54, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, and that could create some issues certainly, although I think it's unlikely for any article that I'd suggest redirecting - in general once they've amassed that many appearances we usually have enough information to convince me to keep. But there will be cases, sure - this one I think we go with the Ranji trophy team, in other cases it might be their first team or something.

I managed to get to most of my own music last year when I was off work. It was good therapy if that helps. (although you have reminded me about a set of boxes with vinyl in that never got dealt with...) Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:59, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

I will create a "List of Gwalior cricketers" stats table and bash it onto WT:CRIC. Give me a while. :) Bobo. 09:05, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

@Bobo192: That's the one I wouldn't do - I think they can be included, with a note attached by all means, at UP. It'd be more helpful to have basic name lists for many of the other teams from the same sort of era. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:09, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay. Like I always said it's what I would have in an ideal scenario for all named teams, but maybe you are right. I'm prepared to go along with that. Me and my completionism again. Bobo. 09:11, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't know enough about the comings and goings of teams in Indian cricket - but it does seem as if Gwalior (and maybe at least one other) are essentially seen as UP. In this case, especially given that it was one match, I think that's reasonable as a way out of needing to put together an article with 11 names on it. I think it depends on the actual ways in which the teams have been merged/put together etc... - for example, the list of Cambridge Town Club players includes those who played for Cambridgeshire as well. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:24, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Just in case you don't see it above

I only just saw the conversation above, I added my (slightly frustrated) $0.02. Bobo. 22:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

John Bluett

Morning BST. Per Cricket Archive, John Bluett died on 23 August. I don't know if you have a better (non-paywall) source. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:38, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: Thanks for letting me know. I've not seen anything on it yet, but there's bound to be something in next year's annual again if nothing else before then. I'll take a look and see what I can find and add it to the to do list for next May... Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:29, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

what is fc

I see your old 1783 still has the matches listed as fc. You’ll note that widen does not follow this. I mention it because I saw an acs man at the rugby league in Auckland and there is a move, apparently, to break entirely with the old ways and create a list of important matches up to the present day and records from it. It would include matches not given fc status eg Yorkshire v do robins xi. Thought it might be of interest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:E002:58B9:7201:F4AC:B72C:B737:9016 (talk) 09:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Did you mean 1783 English cricket season or somewhere else? Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:35, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Just to reiterate. No matches have been given fc status by any official body. Now or in the past for pre 1800 fixtures or as a point of fact, pre 1864. They are important matches. Just to help. No important matches were played out here in s canterbury pre 1800. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.58.52.102 (talk) 09:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

bay oval

The bay oval is inside Blake park which if you look on google maps is large. Many spectators parked inside Blake park during the recent match and will have passed the entrance sign which can see on google earth