User talk:Bobanny/historical buildings

Yale Hotel

One of the oldest hotels in the province and originally built just outside Vancouver limits to allow more shenanigans at the time.

Like Vancouver didn't have enough shenanigans to go around; there were 300 licensed premises in the quadrangle formed by Water/Alexander-Columbia-Hastings-Cambie. Go figure. But when the Yale came into being, Vancouver's municipal boundaries were alreayd down around 41st somewhere; by "just outside Vancouver limits" I guess you mean outside the developed part of downtown (?).

There certainly were... trying to remember where I heard the story that made the Yale even more prone to them though. It appears I didn't do enough homework on the limits thing though, as the southern boundary in 1890 when the Yale was established, was in the forest at aprox 16th Ave (but not 41st), I guess part of the above was merely historical urban legend I must've caight wind of at some point. Or maybe I was getting it confused with the fact the Yale (as then CPR bunkhouse) escaped the Great Fire, by virtue of being separated from DOwntown geographically. I'll have to research.. got me :) --Keefer4 21:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No, that was the Regina Hotel, where the Water Street Cafe is now; it was the only building west of Columbia Street to survive the fire; the CPR clearing crews had stocked the place with wet blankets and buckets of water in advance of the conflagration, and once they had it going (another urban legend, and probably not a legend, is that the CPR tried to burn Gastown out deliberately), they high-tailed it to the Regina, coming down through the steep slope of what's now Victory Square like chokermen on crystal meth, and began dousing the walls and roof from inside and out with the water and wet blankets they'd stored up. They, at least, had an awareness of the dangers of the slashburn; but isn't it curious they were the only ones prepared; with freshly-wetted blankets, too....? hmmm... amazing they didn't die of suffocation but they all lived, and the Regina survived, to be torn down a few years later with something in stone/brick, like all of Gastown was when rebuilt after the fire (the earliest maps of Gastown include fire insurance maps, post-fire...). But as to the mythology of the Yale, there's a lot of fluff in the media that gets stated and restated to the point where people think it's true, or that the building/issue in question was somehow more remarkable than others. In this case, I'd say it was just the Yale was outside the developed area, which ended at about Nelson or so (the CPR had deliberately developed what is now Granville Mall as an entertainment-and-retail area to try and dislodge the "lock"

on that sector then currently enjoyed by the non-CPR merchants and landlords of the 000-200 blocks of Cordova; hence the Lyric, the Hotel Vancouver etc and the cut-rates on restaurant leases the CPR provided up there, to promote its "townsite". The Yale is one of those things that I find gets put undeservedly on a pedestal, but really that's only being done to give Yaletown some kind of historical cachet which it sorely lacks; relative to Gastown or the West End or East End, that is; somewhere I actually saw some blurb that tried to pretend it was the "city's historic core" as if Gastown had never existed; similarly I see stuff naming Chinatown as "where immigrants chose to live", as if anybody was anything BUT an immigrant here in those days (save Squamish or other local FNs), and as if Gastown or anywhere else didn't. All lies and puff-and-stuff meant to trump one area up vs the others; it's like the bit I just changed on the Kelowna article which tried to claim it ALONE was "Canada's California", as if Oliver and Penticton and Summerland weren't part of the same equation. Speaking of which, that Oceanside thing strikes me as bait for DYES - "we're stealing the California coastline's reputation" etc.....(Oceanside is where the San Clemente Nuclear Generating Station is and where I-5 hits the coast again just south of Fort Pendelton)(San Celemente is the site of the Nixon Presidential Library and where Tricky Dick finally bit the bullet.Skookum1 21:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, just to clarify, Morley specifies that "When the summer hurricane died down, they occupied the only standing building [Regina Hotel] in all but the fringes of Vancouver." Which to me translates to : It's possible that what became the Colonial and later Yale Hotel survived since it would certainly have been considered on the fringes.. Also, since the fire is suspected to have started west of town (or possibly s.w. in the roundhouse area) and by prevailing winds (Morley) moved in a west-northwesterly direction (what became 'Stanley Park' wasn't completely burned, for example) it came upon the little city from that direction, the effects west of Granville on what few structures there were are questionable and all this would have been considered the fringes at the time-- ie: was the entire downtown peninsula charred(?) But regardless the point about Yaletown in general is well taken, basically it was just a bunch of sooty warehouses and railyards, which remained that way until well into our own lifetimes... as we're all aware, heritage revisionists be damned. Oh and back to the fire, The Great Fire of Vancouver really should be an article at some point, which I'm sure you've mentioned elsewhere.--Keefer4 22:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

"Which to me translates to : It's possible that what became the Colonial and later Yale Hotel survived since it would certainly have been considered on the fringes.."

Then you've got the translation wrong; Morley in particular is talking about the fringes of Vancouver; so-named (just barely) but in those days the fringes were the edge of the CPR townsite at Cambie/Hamilton & Hastings. There were next-to-no buildings east of the Regina at that point, except farther out in the West End and Coal Harbour; there was nowhere for buildings to be, because most of the space was either still forested, or was one big messy clearcut (the West End was cleared by the usual fell-and-blast method; the CPR Townsite was cleared by accordion falls and mass burning). He's definitely not talking about the location of the Yale, let me assure you of that.Skookum1 22:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Map of Van. fire drawn by JS Mathews in 1930s based on 1st hand accounts.

::::Well we agree to interpret that differently then I guess, fair enough. I think you meant west of the Regina? I'm looking at a photo with charred buildings east of it. I am not one to say whether the incarnation of the Yale survived or not, or how mich of the peninsula was burned, just that it might have survived and I could not reasonably dismiss it out of hand based on the material I've read.--Keefer4 22:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about the origins of the Yale Hotel, but I looked on CVA and the only photo they have of the Yale is from the 1940s, and the only Colonial Hotel is one in New West. But for a visual reference, here's a map I uploaded of the fire. I finally cashed in an X-Mas gift certificate from Chapters, and picked up Derek Hayes "Historical Atlas of Vancouver," which I recommend to any local history buffs. Bobanny 03:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Good find. And I'm getting that book.. dangit--Keefer4 03:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

List of historic hotels in Vancouver

List of historic hotels in Vancouver, was originally going to style this proposal as List of historic hotels in the Downtown Eastside including past and present, status as rooming houses, expo/olympic conversion issues etc, but perhaps that would be a bit too preclusive a list? Thinking places like Balmoral Hotel (Vancouver), New Dodson Hotel, Brandiz Hotel, Regent Hotel (Vancouver), West Hotel (Vancouver), Empress Hotel (Vancouver) etc, and their previous incarnations (or whatever the building names actually are, when they have one). Plenty of interesting stories from those places I heard while working down at Hastings/Columbia, many of which can be found in newspapers and contemporary histories-- even if only a blurb on each hotel on the list. I'll start poking around CoV archives and historic registries.--Keefer4 23:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd go with the List of historic hotels in Vancouver title. The Downtown Eastside is a modern creation/name, and is rather arbitrary; I've even heard it used to refer to immediately east of Seymour or Granville, which is garbage; but it's what you get when you create a name and new people move in and misapply it. Part of the problem is that DERA aggressively sought to advance social housing/street services west of Cambie, displacing existing retail and office space (e.g. the new Central City Mission building at Homer & Pender, which one storekeeper on that same block remarked bitterly deliberately didn't have retail at street level, so as to discourage the area from being anything but subsidy-residential; it killed Seymour's old street life, which used to be continuous pretty well all the way to Chinatown (when the Sun and Province were still there, though); ditto farther east, where "Downtown Eastside" is now applied all the way out to Commercial, which again is a crock. The thing to remember with even the Downtown Eastside's "core" (the Balmoral, Brandiz, etc) is that that was the old downtown, or an important part of it; it wasn't ghettoized in the same sense it is now, and it certainly wasn't called the Downtown Eastside; it was just part of Downtown, albeit containing Skid Road (Hastings 00-100 blks); it should still be considered part of Downtown IMO, and the "Eastside" thing dumped as a ghettoization-name. Hell, the denizens down there don't even call it that - they call it "Uptown" (since Main & Hastings is uphill from all directions other than Hastings - until the Patricia). Historic hotels, yes, but limiting them to the Downtown Eastside just doesn't work for me. One of these historic hotels, btw, would have to be whatever the hotel names at New Brighton/Hastings were (should know, can't remember just now) and the original series on the 00-100 block water (only Deighton House has an article so far, and even that was a rebranding by his bro-in-law of Gassy Jack's original Globe Saloon, which was also the mame of his premises in New Westminster. I should add that "hotels" in BC also implies "bars", even before the bars-must-have-rooms liquor licensing post-Prohbition that reigned in BC until the 1970s...Historic hotels of the British Columbia Interior would also be a goodie; sadly most of the really choice ones have burned down - the Lillooet/Victoria in Lillooet, the Clinton Hotel, the Princeton Hotel, the Lake in Williams Lake...but also all the old mini-chateau railway hotels like those at Balfour and Field and Sicamous....Skookum1 01:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

All great thoughts. And the DTES handle irks me as well, even if I've come to accept it in common usage.. it's still Skid Road as far as I'm concerned, that's how I was taught to refer to it as. The bars would have to be included too, which would make for just loads of colour in the list/articles.--Keefer4 02:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Other Hotel talk

Devonshire Hotel - since the Georgia Medical-Dental is here, the Dev should be too; a bit bigger than the Georgia, it was part of the "hotel core" until its demolition. Like the Georgia or Hotel Van, its lounge/bar was a major mover-and-shaker hangout for a long time (being right on the corner of Hornby in the days when this was "Wasserman's Beat" helped make it so. Also in the same general area there was the Grosvenor on Howe (about where the Infiniti apartments door/plaza is on the "back" side of Chapters, but I'm not sure how notable that one was, other than it was passably elegant/acceptable for business travellers; had a great little lounge, but in those days all the hotels did.....I miss the Grosvenor though; a lot of us old farts do... Ritz Hotel (Vancouver) - this one I'm listing because it was originally built as, I think, a YMCA or some other mass-housing project, but the foundation or whatever ran out of money and it was converted into a hotel; it was a big old thing, between Georgia and Alberni and geez I can't remember if it was "this" side of Thurlow or "that"; I think "that" because the Burrard Building was already standing before the Ritz got torn down. Its beer parlour was an oddity, perhaps because of the building not having been designed to have one; elevator and steam columns right in the middle, with the washrooms, and there was no one clear view from one side of the bar to the other, which covered the whole second floor. No windows, but one of the great beer parlours in downtown Vancouver, and sorely missed by all for being an incredibly social space, like beer parlours tended to be (unlike today's too-loud-to-talk nightclubs).Skookum1 19:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

East van map

On a somewhat similar topic to the whole what is considered east, check the talk page for [Image:Vancouver EastVan.jpg], which is the map used associated with East Vancouver(sorry can't link it becuase it pastes the image--) and is a bit off by my estimation.--Keefer4 02:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That map is so far off it's comical; why the area east of Main south of 41st is not shown as being in the East Side, when it's clearly in the East Side (Main being the 200 blk East, after all), is the most glaring problem; other than the exclusion of Japantown and most of the DTES. The boundary is clearly Carrall Street/Ontario Street, and that's the definition. My "read" of this map is that it's a Vancouver City govt map/info of some kind, but that still doesn't excuse the bad boundaries; it suggests that some bureaucrat is fudging stats of whatever. And yeah, I guess if you live in Kerrisdale or Dunbar, what's east of Cambie Street is "East Side", but I've never thought of any of VGH or Queen E Park or the Cambie Village as being anywhere near the East Side; Cambie is distinctly west - a little bit more down-dressed than Quilchena or Shaugnessy, but still west.Skookum1 02:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

E/W Cordova

52 ½ W. Cordova. Don't know if it had a name, but it was the HQ for the Relief Camp Workers' Union and other Communist projects, and a bustling spot during the Depression. I think a lot of relief camp strikers lived there during the 1935 strike. It's now the parking lot beside the Burbon Street pub near Woodwards.

• • • That whole block of Cordova used to be, by the way, what Robson is now; or rather the two whole blocks from Carrall to Cambie; the site you're talking about also used to be, I think, McLennan & McFeely (a hardware/building supplies business, and notable not just for what projects it supplied but also for both McLennan and McFeely themselves, as their bios are interesting).
      • This caught my eye again because 52 EAST Cordova had been the garage for the pedicab fleet during Expo, which I worked for; we used to come up a ramp from the back alley, when the game of dodge'em with fornicating junkies on other buildings' loading docks was still a relative novelty; not the same building, but it was old; can't remember what it is now; the older buildings in the 00 block of Powell are all worthy of note, by the way, particularly the two that housed the Medieval Inn when it was still in operation (first one, then the other); both have other stories than drunken fake medieval banquets (speaking from experience...I worked there, too, back in the late '70s); Where the Blinding Light Cinema had been, by the way, was Hoffer Books, one of the city's top three antiquarianist booksellers for many years; it's gone now and its owner long-dead, but at some point Bill Hoffer deserves an article, if I can find sources for him. What am I saying? I'm not sticking around, but somebody who's into used bookselling as a topic might want to do some legwork and talk to Don at MacLeod's Books, Steven Lunsford bookseller, or others who might have known him....also in the general area, though in the 200 or 300 block West Cordova, was the Literary Storefront, upstairs from Cabbages & Kinx, which hosted a series of Nobel Laureate poets back in the early '80s and late '70s (Heaney, Brodsky, Milosz....).Skookum1 02:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

        My uncle worked at Cabbages & Kinx through the 80s, cool you should mention the place. Neat stuff on the storefront. :)--Keefer4 02:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Ho Ho restaurant

Isn't the Ho Ho restaurant still open

It is now Foo's Ho Ho, minus the neon and was closed for a substantial amount of time during the late 90's. It ain't the same place anymore. But I was merely including it here because it came to mind when I thought of Ho Inn, not because it's demolished, so in light of your point, I'll add it to the non-demolished section...--Keefer4 01:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)