User talk:Brandonrc/Archive 2006-2008

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'''''bibliomaniac15 00:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hannah Montana Episode Information

(Please note the tone of this article is not whining, yelling, or any other uncalled for emotion. The correct tone of this article is presenting information in calm debate style. :)

Recently I thought that it might be nice to have some more information regarding episodes of Hannah Montana. This information consisted of trivia on each episode, songs that were featured in each episode, and some continuity issues. Recently I spent some time noting this information and added much of it to articles. Soon after, it was removed. I am just curious for a little more reasoning than "not notable". I can understand where some of the information may not be interesting to some people, but you can not please everyone at once. The pages that I am arguing for are the episode pages for Hannah Montana episodes 1 to 10 (The changes have been removed, to see the changes please refer to the history on each respective page).

Please note that I am fairly new to WIKI and may not fully understand what information should be covered on the respective pages. From what I do understand though, the idea is to get a large amount of referential information in one organized place that can be backed up by fact. I am very willing to work with people and see what they have to say or how they think information should be presented.

Changes that were made then removed

• Adding a Heading for "Trivia"
  • On many of the episode pages there was a sentence standing alone under the plot that states what song(s) were referenced by the title of the episode. This was moved in to the "Trivia" section to give some organization. Along with the removal of the added trivia section, this bit of pre-existing information was removed as well. Has this removal been pending or was it because it was moved?
  • Other trivia included which characters first appeared in the episode. I have noticed that this information is also included on that character’s bio page. I know that it can be redundant to a point, but I do not see this small bit of information is overly redundant. Technically it is valid information in each article.

• Adding a heading for "Featured Hannah Montana Songs"
  • This is the section that I have the fewest points to make about keeping it, but I thought that it would be appropriate to see what songs appeared in what episode, much like appearing characters or actors.
  • If this section was too big or bulky a much shorter list could have been placed in the trivia section.
  • The list was not just a list of songs, but included when, who, and where the song was referenced.

• Added a heading for "Continuity"
  • This was a section noting discrepancies between different points in an episode or other episodes - continuity.
  • The idea for adding a section on continuity came from ‘’Goofs’’ On Torn Between Two Hannahs and the ‘’Trivia’’ heading on the That’s So raven main page. This information appeared to remain in tact for some time and was interesting to read. The information added to Hannah Montana was just a continuation of this relating to different article under a different name.
  • I feel that if the information has been removed from the pages in question then should it not also be removed from the above referenced pages?
  • Some information, I agree, was probably speculation and I did not expect all of it to remain. I did not, however, expect it to be completely removed. I expected alteration and addition of other points that people have noticed.
  • Again, this information could also have been moved to the Trivia section as it appears in the That's So Raven list.

In Summary

I do not see a good reason to have this information removed from the articles. I will not be persistent and add the information over and over again. I would however like some of the information to be added somewhere as it is consistent with existing information in other sections of Wikipedia unless a valid reason for not adding it can be established. I do believe some of the removed information to be relevant somewhere within the Hannah Montana pages. I am not angry; I am just looking for explanation and a valid response for not leaving some or all of the information. Please leave a detailed explanation on your thoughts or arguments to the above points. I am open to comments from anyone.

I would also like to know where it would be appropriate to ask ahead of time weather or not doing something this extensive is a good idea or not as I did invest quite a lot of time in this. I did not think that the talk page for each episode would work as they did not exist and I didn't believe anyone to have them set to be watched. I also did not think that the Episode list talk page was appropriate as it did not relate to the episode list. Again, just give me a future reference.

Thanks (and I obviously have too much free time ;)

Brandonrc 22:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Please see the article concerning Notability. Not all factual information is interesting or encyclopedic. Most goofs, for instance, are not notable within the context of Wikipedia articles. The one on the "Torn Between Two Hannahs" article should not be there; I would have removed it before had I noticed it, but I have not yet edited that particular article. Also, many of the comments were not true, such as that Lilly's alter egos "changed" (names and wigs); she has two, which she uses interchangeably, one more than the other. I don't believe I deleted any reference to the song allusion in the episode title, as all the references remain intact.

Please also see the guidelines involving trivia within articles. Prose is much preferred to lists of trivia. If something is notable and interesting, it would be great to incorporate it into the article, preferably in the text.

I don't think the "Featured Songs" section is notable, personally, as the whole show is about her songs, and more than one-two are played in each show, whether sung or in the background. It's kind of the point.

There's no need to hesitate to ask a question on a talk page. If you are unsure about adding something, go ahead and ask. Someone will most likely answer. If you are saying you don't think someone would have the talk page itself on their watchlist, when one puts something on his or her watchlist, the talk page is added as well, so anyone with one of the episodes on his or her watchlist would have it. Shannernanner 23:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I hate to admit it, but you make valid points. I was not aware that Lilly was using both alter ego's, I figured since I never saw her go by LaFanda in later episodes that it was a mistake on the shows part. I looked back over the articles and the song references are still in tact, I just happen to see the one on O Say Can You Remember The Words? that I had redundantly posted in the Trivia section.

I read the Notability & Trivia articles. They had valuable information that I did not know/realize. I was not able to find information in the notability article relating close enough for me to make a direct connection to my posts, but reading the overview and your comments I have a much better understanding of what you mean.

I was not aware that the associated talk pages were automatically marked as watched. This is good to know.

What I will do is work on cleaning up one of the episode pages and post a draft on the talk page for that episode. This way we can see if this is something I should continue to do or not :) Maybe I will get lucky and be able to fit some information in the article informatively and interestingly. Thanks for your reply, sorry if I ruffled any feathers, and feel free to remove my post from your talk page at your leisure.
Brandonrc 03:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I'm glad I could clarify things for you.

I will add that generally you shouldn't remove comments from your talk page; at the least, it's considered rude. You can, however, archive your talk page when needed. :-) Shannernanner 03:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

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