Buttcheeks

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re-welcome

Hi there. I notice your account has been around ages now & welcome back to Wikipedia. Not sure if it would pass the username criteria these days, but have to say it made me grin! :) - Alison ^❤ 18:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Kyubi

Other translations say otherwise. Naruto has both but can only access one half of it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:34, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I have to give the obilgatory warning. You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

show me the translations then.. Buttcheeks 19:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Mangahelpers has a bunch of different versions. The point is, Naruto doesn't just have half the chakra, else it wouldn't work. The seal keeps part at bay, while Naruto as access to the other half. Plus, as pointed out by others, your version doesn't fit well in the lead. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

what doesn't fit is saying Naruto contains the spirit of the fox. Whether or not its just the yang or both, it clearly states he contains the chakra of the fox.

http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18265

"Jiraiya: Minato had no choice but to use the Dead Demon Seal to contain the Nine-Tails' evil chakra.

Page 13: Jiraiya: He went so far as to separate its chakra into light and dark halves, and only sealed the light half inside Naruto."

light = yang dark = yin

http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18284

"Jiraiya: Minato only sealed the Kyuubi's dark chakra with the Shiki Fuujin. [TN: "Shiki Fuujin" = "Dead Demon Seal"]

13 Jiraiya: Minato made sure to separate the Kyuubi's chakra into yin and yang. // The sole reason for sealing the "yang" half into Naruto was so that Naruto could possess the Kyuubi's chakra."

http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18339

"Jiraiya: It was only the Kyuubi's Yin chakra Minato sealed through Shikifuujin.

Page 13. Jiraiya: The reason he took the trouble to split the Kyuubi's power into Yin and Yang... Jiraiya: And seal the Yang side in Naruto, was because he wanted him to have it. "

http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18266

"Frame 4:Minato only sealed the Nine-tails Yin chakra using the Shiki Fuujin**. (**ShikiFuujin is the death-god sealing jutsu used, for instance, by the Third in the fight with Orochimaru)

Page 13

Frame 1: The very reason Minato went to the trouble of splitting the Nine-tails chakra into two, only sealing the Yang chakra into Naruto, was so that he could leave it for Naruto."

Every translation says Minato only sealed the Yang chakra in Naruto.

You're taking it far too literally for your own good. One, he does have the spirit of the fox sealed within him. It's not thin air he's talking to at that gate. Two, the seal ends up in one place. That seal is on Naruto. The Yin is in the seal, the Yang is in Naruto. Minato didn't take half with him. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

"Jiraiya He went so far as to separate its chakra into light and dark halves, and only sealed the light half inside Naruto."

Jiraiya HIMSELF says it, and you think I'm mistaken?

And the other is in the seal, which is on Naruto. They're not in two separate places, otherwise the key would do nothing. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The yang is sealed within Naruto. Its true the Yang is considered "the light" chakra, but that doesn't mean Naruto can control it. The seal keeps the yang chakra from overwhelming Naruto. If the key were used Naruto would have full access to the Yang chakra and would probably be taken over by it. Buttcheeks 20:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

But they never say that. They do say that, were it released, Naruto would completely become the fox. You can't do that with half of it sealed somewhere else. He has both parts. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The frog is the "key" to Naruto's "Hakke Fuuin" ("Eight Trigrams Seal") Jiraiya messed with the "Shishou Fuuin" ("Four Symbols Seal") and was beaten badly by Naruto. It says so in chapter 370. It also says that Minato split the chakra into Yin and Yang, and Jiraiya says Minato sealed the Yin with the "Shiki Fuujin"("Dead Demon Seal", which sacrificed his life.) And that the Yang was sealed within Naruto. Knowing all of this the only thing that can be deduced is that Minato used the Hakke + Shishou Fuuin's to seal the Yang within Naruto, and the yin within himself with the shiki Fuuin. Buttcheeks 20:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Or that Naruto has both and can only access one. You see the impass. The point is, all other sources are explict about one fact: seal goes, fox comes out. This would not be an issue with half its chakra, so both must be there. Its spirit is there in whole, so its chakra must be too. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Every mentioning of the Demon fox's chakra describes it as near limitless. If Naruto had complete access to half that, then he'd be unstoppable. Since Naruto in his normal state IS stoppable, it means that he doesn't have complete access to half of the Demon fox's chakra. It means he has access to his "normal human chakra", unless of course hes aroused into his demon fox state in which he gains slight access to the Yang chakra..

As Naruto goes further into his Kyuubi state he grows more and more tails and becomes more and more like the Kyuubi, if his seal was unsealed then the yang chakra within him (which he doesn't have access to) would completely overwhelm him, take him over and he'd be transformed into a state thats probably as close to the demon fox as one could get. Thats probably what they mean by "the fox comes out". Even half of the fox's chakra is devastating. Buttcheeks 21:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

And as I explained earlier, having half of something doesn't mean it works have as well. If I gave you half a blender, could you use the blender? All of this is your interpretation while the fact remains clear. They always say, even in the chapter you keep throwing as proof, that Minato sealed the fox into his son. Not half the fox, not a part of its chakra, just the fox. They are only explict about the manner in which it was sealed, divided in half so its less of a threat. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Chakra isn't a blender. Its not a stretch to say that the demon fox was sealed within naruto along with the yang chakra, and the yin was sealed within Minato using the shiki fuuin. I mean, Jirayia HIMSELF says that minato sealed the Yin chakra with the Shiki fuuin. The Shiki fuuin seals whatever its sealing within the user. The third sealed orrochimaru's arms within himself(you saw the seal on his stomach). It also goes on to say that Minato separated the chakra and sealed the Yang within Naruto. Its IN chapter 370, in all of the translations on mangahelper's forum. I quoted them and gave you links to each translation. Please Please stop being foolish, You're wrong on this and I've shown you overwhelming evidence. Buttcheeks 21:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

It's an analogy, and the working of the technique change for the story. The Third did it through shadow clones and Minota stuck the seal on someone else while sealing it, so any assumptions about the workings of the technique beyond what people have done with it are original research. You have not shown me anything, you've only harped on a few words and ignored everything else. The whole fox is there. They say it at the start of the series, in all the varied chapters, and even in the chapter which you keep complaining about. The fox is there in whole, plain and simple. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:34, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Any further responses should be placed at Talk:Naruto Uzumaki. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Distrubing Wikipedia: Naruto Article

Then we are clearly not reading the same Talk: page, as from what I read (and I did waste mu time reading it), you keep assuming that the Fourth sealed the Yin chakra was moved someplace else, while the Yang was kept inside Naruto, i.e. The Demon Fox. However, it said that the Yin was sealed, I.E. can't be used, and the Yang could be used by Naruto. So far, every mention of the demon fox was that it was sealed COMPLETELY in Naruto, splitting it and seperating the chakra from each other doesn't mean that it was sent some place eles. One of the basics on how magic seals work. More than one thing could be sealed by a special seal, but that doesn't mean that they can "touch" each other.--TheUltimate3 20:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate covered my point perfectly. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The manga says a few things clearly.

1) Minato separated The fox's chakra into Yin and Yang.

2) Minato only sealed the Yin chakra with the Dead Demon Seal(Shiki Fuuin).

3) Minato sealed the Yang Chakra in Naruto.

All of this is said in the conversation between the frog scroll and Jiraiya in chapter 370. A couple conclusions can be drawn from these 3 facts.

1) The two halves of the chakra are separate.

2) The Yang half is sealed in Naruto.

3) Since the Yin half was sealed with the Dead Demon seal, its in the shingami's belly with Minato, and they're fighting for all eternity. (its how the jutsu works, the third says it himself when explaining the jutsu to orochimaru). Buttcheeks 20:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The seal is on Naruto. I won't bother explaining this again. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

A seal is on Naruto, Yes. I won't dispute that. It isn't the Dead Demon seal though. Its the Eight trigrams seal and the Four Symbols seal, Jiraiya says so when he takes off Orochimaru's odd seal before the final exam in the chuunin arch. Its also stated in the conversation between the frog scroll and Jiraiya. Why would they call it the hakke fuuin/shishou fuuin if its the shiki fuuin? Buttcheeks 20:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Because, and this is the point you continuously fail to get (so I'll bold it), shiki fuuin is a technique, not a seal. The technique creates the seal, which is the same on both the Hokage and Naruto. Until you understand this fact, don't bother trying to argue that they're different. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:58, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

If its not a seal why is it called "the dead demon seal"? Why is it called a Fuuin(presumably japanese for seal)? In either case, If its the shiki fuuin sealing technique why would it produce a Hakke fuuin/shishou fuuin seal? Why are all other seals named after their sealing jutsu except Naruto's? Buttcheeks 21:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

A, no other seals are ever described in such detail: ever. B, a method is different than a result. Shiki Fuuin is a method, and the seal it creates is the result. You're desperately reading too deeply into this to make your point valid and shoving away everything else. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not reading too much into anything, I'm stating exactly what the manga says word for word almost. "Minato only sealed the Yin chakra with the Shiki fuuin" and "Minato sealed the yang chakra within Naruto". Nothing about that is interpreted. We know how the Shiki fuuin works. We've seen it in action. Naruto's seal is never called the Shiki fuuin. You're the one grasping for straws, Now you're arbitrarily claiming the Shiki fuuin is a sealing technique and not a seal. Give me a break dude, this article isn't your pet. Other people can contribute. Just because you don't agree with what I posted doesn't mean it isn't true. My edit is supported by Fact, and actual quotes from the manga. Yours is pure speculation and assumption. Come up with a few cited and reference quotes that support your position and then I'll consider backing down. Otherwise I suggest we compromise and Not state where the Yin is sealed, and just put exactly what the manga says, that leaves No room for either of us to add our interpretation of events. Buttcheeks 21:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)