Carla.hunter
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January 2011
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Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Johannes von Trapp, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. MSJapan (talk) 07:13, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Eleonore von Trapp. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. MSJapan (talk) 07:14, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
This is your last warning; the next time you vandalize Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. MSJapan (talk) 06:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
In lieu of more warnings....
editPlease do not continue to add misspellings, bad references, and the like to the von Trapp articles. MSJapan (talk) 07:18, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
My great aunt Rosmarie's name (and birth year) was misspelled on her immigration papers upon the family's arrival to the US in the late thirties. The family did not speak English at the time. Rosmarie as you can imagine does not spend much time online and has generally remained amused by the constant misspellings.
If you require evidence of her name being spelled as I suggest perhaps you can look within the many books written by my family members as opposed to authors who merely replicate the same error the US Customs officials offered. "Memories before and after the Sound of Music" written by her late sister Agathe von Trapp would be a great place to start. Further evidence can be found in many of the obituaries written for Agathe, which are now circulated around the globe, all stating her correctly spelled name. (http://www.stowetoday.com/stowe_reporter/news/article_aa08bc92-19a8-11e0-9d26-001cc4c002e0.html) Yet another reference is the website of the Trapp Family Lodge, which also states the correct spelling and birth year for her. (http://www.trappfamily.com/story/timeline) Information on the internet is not always accurate and just because information appears repeatedly does not give it credence. I would appreciate your efforts in rectifying the changes that I tediously added on behalf of my family that you decided to overrule. Thank you- Carla C. von Trapp Hunter
- Setting aside the fact that you do not understand how Wikipedia functions, you state quite clearly that her legal name was misspelled. Nevertheless, unless it is changed legally, her legal name is "Rosemarie". She can spell her name however she likes personally, but her legal name is what is important. I would also suggest you read the conflict of interest and reliable source policies - the edits you made were inappropriate, because we simply do not use either unpublished material, personal correspondence, or primary sources in articles.Verifiability might also be of use to you, because what you're basically saying is that "everyone else is wrong," but the evidence you are providing is only strengthening the cae against what you are trying to do. MSJapan (talk) 06:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
- Where did you pull "Rosemarie" from? The references in the article from reliable sources use "Rosmarie". --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 07:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Look MSJapan, I don't know what your motives here are or why you are giving me such a hard time about this. I'm not well versed in wiki-speak and trying my hardest to format everything as correctly as possible. My motives are simple (clear up the misspelling --it's an "E" we're debating-- (and a few other updates that I noticed where information could be added}. Rosmarie Trapp is actually her current legal name (you can check the Stowe, VT Town Hall records if you wish) as she dropped the "von" (a hereditary noble title bestowed upon Georg's father for his war service to Austria) upon becoming a US Citizen. Her Austrian passport bore the name Rosmarie von Trapp (first and last). Their passenger ship manifest (from their 1939 arrival) appears online http://www.archives.gov/global-pages/larger-image.html?i=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1-l.jpg&c=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1.caption.html and includes her name and entry info with an extra "e". It is this archive that I believe spurred the years of mixed spellings. The following PUBLISHED sources cite her name with the CORRECT spelling; Rosmarie von Trapp.
The World of the Trapp Family: The Life Story of the Legendary Family Who Inspired "The Sound of Music" by William Anderson and David Wade
Maria: My Own Story by Maria Von Trapp
To the Last Salute: Memories of an Austrian U-Boat Commander by Georg von Trapp and Elizabeth M. Campbell
Memories Before and After the Sound of Music: An Autobiography by Agathe Trapp
Yesterday, Today, and Forever by Maria von Trapp
The Story of the Trapp Family Singers by Maria Augusta Trapp
Please stop contesting this and trying to block me from contributing. I'm just trying to give her the respect of having her name spelled correctly after so many years of misspellings. I began with this source because I felt that wikipedia was a frequently used resource that strove toward accuracy through the contributions of the collective. Carla.hunter (talk) 07:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)Carla Campbell von Trapp Hunter (Stowe, VT)
Von Trapp information
editIf you want your side of the story on the Internet you should write it up at Blogger or at Knol or at Facebook. The best way to have it cited in Wikipedia would be to get a news reporter interested in the story so they can vet it, then we can quote it here. For now the most reliable source is the earliest official document for birth dates and for names. So far we have the naturalization papers, and the ships' manifests that the National Archive have researched and vetted and they stand by them. They were sworn under an oath to God in the application and were again sworn as accurate when citizenship was granted. So, if the year of birth is consistent in three documents and is contradicted later in life, the earlier are the most reliable. People's recollections and death certificates are the least reliable, especially when contradicted by an earlier document. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:34, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Look MSJapan, I don't know what your motives here are or why you are giving me such a hard time about this. I'm not well versed in wiki-speak and trying my hardest to format everything as correctly as possible. My motives are simple (clear up the misspelling --it's an "E" we're debating-- (and a few other updates that I noticed where information could be added}. Rosmarie Trapp is actually her current legal name (you can check the Stowe, VT Town Hall records if you wish) as she dropped the "von" (a hereditary noble title bestowed upon Georg's father for his war service to Austria) upon becoming a US Citizen. Her Austrian passport bore the name Rosmarie von Trapp (first and last). Their passenger ship manifest (from their 1939 arrival) appears online http://www.archives.gov/global-pages/larger-image.html?i=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1-l.jpg&c=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1.caption.html and includes her name and entry info with an extra "e". It is this archive that I believe spurred the years of mixed spellings. The following PUBLISHED sources cite her name with the CORRECT spelling; Rosmarie von Trapp.
The World of the Trapp Family: The Life Story of the Legendary Family Who Inspired "The Sound of Music" by William Anderson and David Wade
Maria: My Own Story by Maria Von Trapp
To the Last Salute: Memories of an Austrian U-Boat Commander by Georg von Trapp and Elizabeth M. Campbell
Memories Before and After the Sound of Music: An Autobiography by Agathe Trapp
Yesterday, Today, and Forever by Maria von Trapp
The Story of the Trapp Family Singers by Maria Augusta Trapp
Please stop contesting this and trying to block me from contributing. I'm just trying to give her the respect of having her name spelled correctly after so many years of misspellings. I began with this source because I felt that wikipedia was a frequently used resource that strove toward accuracy through the contributions of the collective. Carla.hunter (talk) 07:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)Carla Campbell von Trapp Hunter (Stowe, VT)
- Carla's correction of the spelling was backed by the sources, I do not know why it has been removed. I have gone in an fixed it where I have found it. The New York Times and NARA both use "Rosmarie", which looks like a misspelling but is correct. I have also added "Baron" in the wording for his name. All reliable sources including the Encyclopedia Britannica use "Baron" and "Baroness", and there is no supporting evidence that he was not a baron. I don't know what the Wikipedia rule is for the names of Barons in the lede is. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:43, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
- I would think that the content of the original edits should make it obvious, but it was removed because the citation from published independent sources only occurred because you found it after I asked her for it twice. Previously, the citation to the name change was to Carla's own unpublished personal email. Carla also claimed it was Rosmarie that wanted her name changed, but when pressed, stated that Rosmarie doesn't use the Internet, and that it was Carla's idea to make the changes. She also used her one-hour old account to request a page move with no support for it other than the changes she had already made to the von Trapp articles. Moreover, the changes Carla made to the wikilinks for names broke the wiklilinks (because title is not part of name as we have it), and she added things like <ref>"he had brown eyes and black hair"</ref>. That's good faith editing? If so, then I guess I have to apologize for seeing vandalism across multiple articles where it wasn't. I would imagine, by the way, that since she's gotten what she wanted, she won't be back. MSJapan (talk) 03:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
- When confronted with conflicting evidence, don't flip a coin to choose which one is correct, spend 3 minutes to investigate first. That is what I did for the controversy over the year of birth for the first child. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 07:32, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
- Carla's correction of the spelling was backed by the sources, I do not know why it has been removed. I have gone in an fixed it where I have found it. The New York Times and NARA both use "Rosmarie", which looks like a misspelling but is correct. I have also added "Baron" in the wording for his name. All reliable sources including the Encyclopedia Britannica use "Baron" and "Baroness", and there is no supporting evidence that he was not a baron. I don't know what the Wikipedia rule is for the names of Barons in the lede is. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:43, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Content dispute
editThis looks like a content dispute. I have declined to block, but remind both editors about edit warring and reverting edits. You both have good points, and it is good that you are discussing the edits here, try and reach agreement before continuing to make disputed edits. Try to remember to assume good faith. If I can be of any help leave a note on my talk page. Jeepday (talk) 12:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
- I have reviewed a few of your edits, and I believer you are editing in good faith, but may unaware of the requirements of Wikipedia (see welcome message). I would suggest your best course at this point is begin a discussion at Talk:Georg Ludwig von Trapp with your proposed changes to that article. Once consensus for change is reached remember to use citation in the article when making changes particularly given the need for verification on the points you have made. Jeepday (talk) 12:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)