Carolynimhoff

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I finally figured out how to sign messages. A very belated thank you!!! Carolynimhoff (talk) 15:12, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

History of the Jews in New Zealand

Nice article. Just letting you know that I went through and converted the external links in the body into references. One of the many conventions here is not to have links to other websites in the text. You may want to check to make sure I got everything right. Thanks for the article. AIRcorn (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you to you and to everyone else who has come in and shifted things to better positions (!!!! my formatting skills are terrible). I am trying to not use links to websites in the text. Carolynimhoff (talk) 15:10, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Fall versus Autumn

Hello Carolynimhoff. You have done a lot of work to make History of the Jews in New Zealand a more interesting page. In the section "The First Jewish ceremonies..." you use the word 'fall' in the second sentence for the name of the season. In New Zealand, Autumn is the term for Fall. We New Zealanders understand the term Fall, but it's never used in NZ. Its use here implies a person writing from a US perspective and creates an ambiguity: does the writer mean the marriage took place in the US Fall of 1841 (September-November) or the NZ Fall (March-May), which should more accurately be called Autumn since the page is NZ-based. We use Spring for the September-November season. Hoping you can pin down the date more accurately and change to Autumn if appropriate. Akld guy (talk) 09:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you------I hadn't even thought of that! And sorry if this is the wrong way to acknowledge your comment. Also-----is the section on the trip to New Zealand (pork and peas...) too far from the subject? I just thought the idea of five months of pork and peas would be a factor--possibly tiny---in explaining why Jews gave up being as religiously strict as they had been in the home country.Carolynimhoff (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello again. The diet seems relevant but other editors may disagree. I have delayed answering the question while trying to verify the claim. It has proved impossible for me in such a short time to access the book containing the surgeon's log that has been cited and I didn't want to keep you waiting for an answer. I presume you had access to the book? You can indent your comments on this page by typing the colon symbol : at the start of the comment, as I have done. Two colons for the next person who comments and so on. It helps in differentiating each comment from others. Akld guy (talk) 08:41, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

The 1841 voyage of the Birman is of interest to me. Penfield was the maiden name of one of my ancestors who came to NZ in 1872. It's not clear whether the 1841 Penfields were related and perhaps encouraged my Penfields to emigrate 30 years later. Akld guy (talk) 08:53, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I saw there were later Penfields (sometimes spelled "Pinfold") and wondered if they were the same family. Bruce Crowther complied the book in 1992 and sells it--was less than $30 a few years ago--if you google him and "Birman" you'll find him or I can send you his contact. I just looked and it's in several Auckland research libraries--Turnbull, Auckland Museum LIbrary, and I think, one other. The book is a compilation of records, lists, letters. Fascinating (to me, anyway). There is an error in it--he (CRowther) lists Henrietta Esther Penfield as one of the deaths--Henrietta was the 1 year old who died, Esther Penfield survived, but not sure for how long because I can't find any information on her besides her birth (and poor health, including convulsions...).Carolynimhoff (talk) 11:35, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

intelligent and amiable Margaret Hort

Thank you for streamlining! I did clutter up the "three PM with Jewish ancestry" part to the point where it was out of place, so thanks for moving it. BUt "intelligent and amiable" is not a commment on Margart HOrt's appearance, it's a remark by a contemporary on her personality and upbringing at a time when "intelligence" wasn't something women were valued for. JUst sayin'Carolynimhoff (talk) 11:53, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, read the Prime MInister part through and it is much better without my Margart Hort clutter, and I am glad it's in demographics! Thank you!!! Carolynimhoff (talk) 12:16, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I made a mistake re Margaret's appearance versus attributes. Sorry to have brutally edited your text and tyvm for being so gracious about it. Akld guy (talk) 19:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

"BRutally edited"--haha ha. I am impervious to editorial pain. I see you also cut my opening sentence to just the facts, ma'am.

I was trying to get even ONE of Joel Samuel Polack's wood print illustrations, but there's nothing I can poach and I don't have the patience for the Turnbull library's list o' pain. It's your country, Auckland Guy, your move.

I can tell you every Penfield detail from the Crowther book, or scan you the page(s). You can reach me at ceeimhoff at gmail should you wish me to go all ancestry dot com on the NZ Penfields. Carolynimhoff (talk) 23:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I cut that opening sentence because 1. it contained a factual error, and 2. it contained a claim that wasn't verifiable. It stated There have never been many Jews in New Zealand, relative to the larger population, the total number hovering steadily at 1% of the total population, but even from the 1820's, when there were less than a handful, New Zealand Jews and their frequently non-Jewish descendents had an influence that belied their numbers. Firstly, the claim of "hovering steadily at 1%" is not referenced so it does not make clear what era it applied to, and because the last few census figures are in the vicinity of 0.2%, the claim is in error by a factor of 5 for at least the past couple of decades (and I think many more). Secondly, the claim that "Jews and their descendants had an influence that belied their numbers" is not backed with a reference and appears to be your personal point of view. I did not cut the sentence lightly. I gave considerable thought over a period of several days as to how the 1% claim might be corrected but decided that any percentage figure would be era-specific, and that would force the presentation of too much data in the first line of the page. There was no justification for keeping the claim under those circumstances. Akld guy (talk) 05:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Got it! I put it in there thinking "better get back in there quick with a reference for that are risk having it deleted." I suspect I have committed several wiki faux pas: some things verge on "original research." Some things are connected to my ancestors. Gulp. And as a writer, I want to tell a story! How can wiki be so blandly neutral!!! That said,I'll try to rein it in. At any rate, I am a newbie here. Nuff said.

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Problem

Hello Carolyn, thank you for the Thank and nice to see you active again. At History of the Jews in New Zealand, there's a problem with the 'Establishment of synagogues' section. It has become merged with the preceding section. Could you fix ASAP please? Akld guy (talk) 22:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Do you really think it should have a stand alone section? I trust whatever you think, but...? Anyway, while you're at it, what else do you think of the changes?Carolynimhoff (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

(I finally figured out what you meant about using colons to indent!!!!)

Yes, I think it should be a stand alone section. My first thought was that you had inadvertently deleted too much, causing the merge. Akld guy (talk) 22:46, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

OK, let me go back and figure it out as a stand alone section. Give me a couple of days?

@Carolynimhoff: that looks very much better, thank you. I'm also very impressed with your rewording of the first sentence of the Lead: Little is known of Jews in New Zealand before about 1830, when the first Anglo-Jewish traders are known to have arrived. That sentence was recently reworded to say that Jews first appeared in 1831, which of course is almost certainly not true. All we could really say is that anything before 1831 is not documented. Your rewording expresses things perfectly. I had puzzled over how to redo it, but you got it absolutely right. Akld guy (talk) 07:44, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Problem with photo of Solomon Levy

Hi Carolyn. The caption to the photo of Solomon Levy says he and Benjamin arrived in NZ in 1839, but the text says 1840 which agrees with the ship's arrival date in the link. So I think the 1839 must be wrong. The photo file is New Zealand Jewish Settler, Solomon Levy.jpg, where the same erroneous 1839 appears. As uploader of the file, you may be the only person who has authority to change it; I haven't tried. Akld guy (talk) 04:42, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Akld guy. They left LOndon in 1839 and arrived in 1840. I changed it--thanks for catching it.Carolynimhoff (talk) 14:39, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Hey, Akld guy, I always appreciate your edits. Is it Ok if I don't technically thank you for every one of them? Cuz there will be lots! or is it against wiki culture to withhold thanks?  :) Also, paywall--really? Historic New Zealand papers = free. If that's what you were referring to. I try not to refer to anything that has a paywall (The Jewish Chronicle does, alas). OOps, wrong section to put this in. :(

There's no obligation to Thank, and it's not bad etiquette to fail to Thank. Most editors don't bother, and send a Thank only if the edit is outstanding in some way, such as clarifying some detail with a reference that was obscure, or an edit that was elegantly worded, or an edit that the thanker had been trying to get to grips with, or a revert that the thanker agrees with (especially if it reverts vandalism). The paywalled cite appeared in the sentence like this: Isolation rapidly gave way to intermarriage. Solomon Levy here quickly married Jane Harvey, the 14-year-old Christian shipmate of Esther Solomon and Elizabeth Levy. The cite was inappropriate on 3 counts - a blog, bizarre placement having nothing to do with Solomon Levy, and behind a paywall. Akld guy (talk) 04:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, got it. I forgot I even linked to that. Blog = BS. But the information in the blog could have been cited straight from the newspaper sources (if it was important enough, which--you're right--it wasn't). Carolynimhoff (talk) 13:50, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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Birman passengers map

Dear carolynimhoff,

I have viewed your "annotated map of the barque Birman" that you uploaded to Wikipedia some years ago. My ancestors were aboard that same ship on it's trip to New Zealand in 1841 and I am wondering where you got the map from, so that I can, hopefully, can obtain a copy of the complete map for my own family research? Can you tell me if such a complete map of the Birman is available, please? 121.200.7.156 (talk) 00:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi--I have a book called "The Voyage of the Barque Birman," put together from archival sources and including the surgeon's journal. Bruce Crowther (ancestors on the ship...)put it together and I bought a copy from him (he put it out in 1992, originally). His address at that time was 1353 Cambridge Road, Te Awamatu, Ph (07) 8714158 and I was last in touch with him about 15 years ago. If you email me at ceeimhoff@gmail.com I will be happy to find your family in the book (warning: he had a few rough patches with some of the immigrants! And they probably with him!") and send you copies of the complete map of which families were where. The book is fascinating. If we can find him you really might want to get your own copy--but in the meantime I'll send whatever I can find if you tell me names to look for (Esther Solomon was my 3rd great grandmother==maybe one of the "single women" the doctor said was hysterical because she was constipated at the start of the trip---"should have told me they were costive earlier"--yeah, so easy for a Victorian teen almost alone in the world to discuss!

Did you note that the single women's mess was closest to the bathroom? Talk about being low men (women) on the totem pole). Carolynimhoff (talk) 04:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank for the interesting reply. I've just now sent an email to you. Alexander Grinn (talk) 08:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)