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February 2012 talk page archives

Just an FYI

• My previous concerns about assigning autopatrolled without enough articles

Hi, sadly, I've just had to revoke 'autopatrolled' and 'reviewer' from PumpkinSky (talk · contribs) as a CCI has now been opened against him. As before, I hope I don't seem like I'm badgering, but this is why we don't grant 'autopatrolled' to users who haven't created a decent number of good, new articles. Sorry. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:21, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

With regard to this, I note (as a courtesy) that you have also been discussed at User talk:Malleus Fatuorum. Geometry guy 00:55, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• thanks for the notes folks. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. May take me a day or three to digest everything, but I'll do my best. cheers. — Ched :  ?  03:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hope you're feeling better today, bud. Steven Zhang ^{Join the DR army!} 03:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

All fine Steve, just a whole lot to take in at the moment. — Ched :  ?  03:20, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Take care, friend. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:23, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

thanks bugs. good to see you around. :) — Ched :  ?  03:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I also gather that there's an arbcom case about Malleous. Can you tell me where it is? I'm not seeing it on his talk page, but I may have overlooked it. (FYI, I intend to defend him, if it's not too late.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

It's here, but I'm afraid it is too late to add anything to the evidence. Malleus Fatuorum 03:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement is the main case page, but the evidence and proposal sections have now been closed. There still hasn't been much feedback from the arbs on it yet though. — Ched :  ?  03:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, I can say it here anyway... I used to cross swords with MF frequently. Once I understood better where he's coming from, I stopped. What this appears to me to be, is a dispute among admins, from the over-aggressive blockers such as Thumper, to the over-aggressive unblockers, who need to communicate with each other instead of wielding their various weapons unilaterally. MF has often ridiculed admins, and ironically this potential pending action actually makes his point for him. Possibly too late to do any good. :( ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Beloved friend, swift stallion, wild deer, / leopard ranging in the wilderness — / together we crossed the mountains, together / we slaughtered the Bull of Heaven, we killed / Humbaba, who guarded the Cedar Forest — / O Ched, what is this sleep that has seized you, / that has darkened your face and stopped your breath?— (Trans. Mitchell, 2004) (From WP article Metphor)```Buster Seven Talk 05:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

 :-D ... hey Buster. Ummm .. the brief of it is that I received an (I assume) unrelated email that left me feeling rather ... ahhh .. uncomfortable. This morning I looked into changing my username to something that wasn't my real life name. I was off-line a bit, and when I came back I noticed that a huge dust-up had occurred surrounding a couple editors with whom I had worked. I don't want there to be any perception that I was avoiding or hiding anything, so right now I'm simply reading, following links, and trying to get a grasp of the entire picture the best I can. Nice quote by the way. — Ched :  ?  05:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I once received a threat in the mail. It was kind of disturbing, until I took a second look and noticed that it was addressed to "Occupant or Boxholder". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:07, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Nice quote indeed. But I think we all know how this case will end. Malleus Fatuorum 06:01, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Don't give up yet. And there's always the Simple English Wikipedia, which I worked on a little bit when Jimbo decided to block everyone for 24 hours. It seems to be a relatively peaceful place to work. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:06, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

There's actually several interesting(?) things in play at the moment. Along with the entire AC debacle(s), there's a user Fae being addressed. It seem for the moment that at least the Mistress something or other has been resolved. In the end, I really hate to see folks driven off the project, but often when I say anything - it comes back to bite me in the ass. It seems the more I learn, the less I know. — Ched :  ?  06:15, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

There was an old-time radio quiz show called "It Pays to Be Ignorant". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:58, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

(ec)FWIW...that quote has absolutely nothing to do with the on-going ANI Case...or User:Malleus Fatuorum, if that is his implication.```Buster Seven Talk 07:01, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

If you had six male siblings, and all of you got married on the same day, it would Seven Brides for Seven Seven Brothers. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't know - could have also referred to the Pumpkinsky/Rlevse threads. For myself, I find it better at times to not try to read anything into a post unless it's pretty explicit. Anyway, I noticed the word "sleep" above, and think it may be time to try to find some of that. Catch everyone later - hope you all have a great day/night. — Ched :  ?  07:16, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Red Barnstar

		The Red Barnstar
		Roses are red...so is this star. We are all so lucky, that you are who you are. Your insightfulness and perception of situations it is a pleasure to observe.--```Buster Seven Talk 07:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Strong support, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:15, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much .. but I honestly don't deserve any kind of accolades. I do try to do the right thing, but all too often my judgement is lacking. It's very tough to see the big picture here, but the more I see, the more I realize how little I see. — Ched :  ?  08:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I guess you watch PS anyway, I added. Thanks for the wisdom in the above also, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:59, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Your instinct to reach out and assist and lessen potential damage and hard feelings is never lacking. You put yourself on the line in a way that few others do. Ok, maybe the big picture is obscurred. Maybe you make a judgement call and it turns itself back on you. So what? Heck! Just above, in the box, you give other editors permission to chastise you ("Feel free to chastise me"). Why are you surprised when they follow your instructions? Time and time again you have shown that you have what WP needs. So...you are wrong...you DO deserve accolades; more than you get.```Buster Seven Talk 09:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

ps to my entry above, but fits well here: the title of Bach's cantata for tomorrow (in prep) is Ich bin vergnügt mit meinem Glücke ("I am content in my good fortune"). I wasn't when I wrote it, but now, wishing you the same, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

pps it made Main page history, I mentioned you in an edit summary, ps --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

• you are such kind and good people - I consider myself truly blessed to have met you. — Ched :  ?  17:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

out

heading for Superbowl party .. and will be busy most of tomorrow with doctor and hospital stuff. If it's important, hit the email button and it will ping me. cya when I get back (Tues. ??) — Ched :  ?  21:43, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

"And now for something completely different"

For a change of pace see User talk:Jimbo Wales#Paid operatives. Bad=Jimbo hasnt shown up yet. Good=Collect hasnt shown up yet. It may be just what you need to get your juices flowin' again. Leave all this other "Hasa-rai" (Junk) in your rear view mirror. Not sure where you stand, but your stand is important to share. ```Buster Seven Talk 05:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey Buster ... sorry for not responding earlier, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't responding in violation of some very good "you should step away" advice first. I'll take a look. Basically I think in general paid editing should be frowned upon. I also realize it's not something that can be enforced, and very VERY seldom - maybe you get some quality from it .. but it's very very rare.

Hey guys .. thanks for everything - really appreciate that. Hope everyone is doing well. — Ched :  ?  18:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

email note

Sorry, but I've got to temporarily disable my email link. If there's something you want to discuss privately, feel free to drop a note here, and I'll come up with a solution. Thank you. — Ched :  ?  18:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter

Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter Volume I, Issue III February 2012 Front cover | Feature | News and announcements | Humor | Want ads To contribute to the next newsletter, please visit the Newsletter draft page. ARS Members automatically receive this newsletter. To opt out, please remove your name from the recipients list.

MSU Interview

Dear Ched,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 02:34, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest, and I'll review this over the next few days. As I am registered with my real name, anonymity wouldn't be possible in my case. I don't use Skype, and it's been years since I socialized at IRC, but I'm sure something could be arranged. I'll be in touch by the end of the coming weekend. Best. — Ched :  ?  02:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Is this about becoming a Wikipedia administrator or about being a Wikipedia administrator? I'd have thought that anyone who's been here more than five minutes could put you on the path of becoming an administrator. And perhaps more so those of us who failed rather than those of us who succeeded. Malleus Fatuorum 03:34, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I honestly don't know. I noticed that there were a LOT of these form letters sent to current admins. I have to admit that discussion with those who should have passed and didn't would certainly add a great wider perspective to things. (sigh .. if only yours would have Mal, the course of things would have been SOOOO much different here. (for the better). By the way - I'd been trying to recall what single item drew me to understand the honesty, integrity, and true grit that's inherent in you. I had many folks question why when I so very seldom involve myself at AC why I'd speak in defense of you. Then in the last few days, I noticed several high-profile block/unblock things go down .. and it hit me. Once long ago after we had talked, and I saw you would give respect if it was given to you, I threatened to overturn a block on you (perhaps to prove a point about what was right? (may have been the sycophant one)... I don't know). Anyway - with all that's going on it hit me. You told me to calm down, the block was no big deal, and that you'd been through it before. You could have easily let me throw myself to the wolves. It could have made a point about the lack of consistency in adminship in general. The fact that you didn't judge me just because I was an admin. for your own goals spoke loudly to me. There are few people that I have as much respect for as I have for you. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  03:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

We're both grown-ups Ched, we know how the world works. I'd be prepared to make a very substantial bet that I could set up a new account and in a year or so become an administrator ... or maybe I've done that already. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 04:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

*cough* .. ok, after a very good laugh, all I can say is I'm not sure I'd even want to know. :-) ... — Ched :  ?  04:17, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

You probably didn't follow last year's leaks of ArbCom emails, no reason why you should, but I learned my lesson with poor William Leadford. I'll not say what that lesson was though. Malleus Fatuorum 05:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I saw some of leak stuff, both here and on WR. Actually when I read the content, the word that came to mind was: banal. But it did teach me to keep my email emptied once I'd read it and responded to it. I hadn't interacted with Mr. Leadfoot, but I'll have a gander at some of his actual article work. I figure there's really only about 150 people actually here, each with multiple accounts. It all does make one wonder doesn't it? — Ched :  ?  05:15, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

William, who was of course me, did a load of good work on car and motor cycle articles. I set the account up for a quiet life, to get the vultures off my back. Didn't work though. Malleus Fatuorum 05:23, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Precisely why I never cared much for the whole "sock" mentality. I always just looked at things from and account by account perspective. I think SPI has to be one of the largest wastes of time the project has. I'm also not fond of carrying grudges either - which is why I have a rather short wiki-memory. As you say, you keep your eyes open, and learn - and sometimes the less said the better. — Ched :  ?  05:31, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

There's a genuine irony in seeing DR Jobar's request. I have tenure with him and we have a truly unique Wikipedia relationship. He is by everything known to me, a genuinely good person, deeply principled, and of strenuous ability. He once had over 100 students in a single course, and managed to nurture each of them beyond what a tutor could accomplish one-on-one. In short, if he asks for help, I can attest that he deserves the help. My76Strat (talk) 05:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I can't follow that at all. Anyone prepared to patiently follow a few simple steps can become an administrator, and if they continue in the same anodyne way could become a bureaucrat. "How to become ..." seems deeply suspicious to me. Malleus Fatuorum 05:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

My76Strat, there's a world of difference between becoming an "admin" and learning to be a true and valuable asset to this project. I have no intention of teaching anyone "how to become an admin; but I wouldn't be opposed to teaching a current admin. how to become a better and more productive example to the project. I also would be more than happy to explain why one would not want to be an admin. For those that truly care about the project from an encyclopedic standpoint, being a good admin. is a very difficult and humbling experience. Personally, as one who used to vote at probably a 90% support rate - I'm not sure I'd care to see any less than 2 or more years as an editor. No big deal? ... HA - look around my friend. — Ched :  ?  06:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. My76Strat (talk) 06:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Well I for one am curious as heck what the questions might be, so I volunteered for an interview. 28bytes (talk) 06:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Note

Would you be available for a quick e-mail? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

sure .. you still have the addy? — Ched :  ?  13:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

No, and my own e-mail address is different now. I propose that one of us temporarily activate our emails and the other could send a test e-mail, then the first could quickly de-activate again. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Sent. You may now deactivate. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:16, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

RFA

Many thanks for your kind words & offer. I'm take it slowm bit by bit - all I've done so far are a few PRODS, one indef block of a sockpuppet (راؤول شالكة (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)), and one page proection (Harry Redknapp). Please feel free to double-check the latter two for me, I would appreciate it. Regards, GiantSnowman 16:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Not an SPI - just checking if the block was merited ad executed properly. GiantSnowman 17:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Fantastic, thanks very much. GiantSnowman 09:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Archive bot

I've never used up myself, but they shouldn't be that hard. User:MiszaBot III is pretty much the standard for user talk pages. What in particular were you wanting to know? — Huntster (t @ c) 02:10, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Note that User:MiszaBot/Archive HowTo explains how to set up and configure the archiver, but let me know what other help you need. — Huntster (t @ c) 06:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Davykamanzi

(copied from User:Dougweller's Talk page)--Bbb23 (talk) 14:25, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Doug, what was resolved by this discussion? Davy still has the same user page. Indeed, he continues to update it. If it weren't for the ANI discussion, I would deal with it in the normal way for inappropriate user pages, but I don't want to trod on anyone's toes.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:30, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I'd say ask Ched. Or revive it. Dougweller (talk) 10:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

There's a third option, which is following the steps at WP:MFD, which seems preferable to me than to resurrecting the topic at ANI. However, I don't see any urgency in any of this, so I'll see what Ched has to say. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Bbb23 .. truly sorry for not following up on that .. to be honest I'd assumed that someone would have put it up for MfD. Probably a nice kid and all, but yea - not really sure I'd want a son or daughter of mine doing that. If you do put it up for MfD, let me know, and I'll support it's removal, maybe even tell him to save that page to his HD if he wants, but his young age is a concern I think. — Ched :  ?  19:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Although he's been told before, I've left a warning on his Talk page to give him a chance to voluntarily remove the article from his user page. If he doesn't, I'll nominate it. I'll keep you posted, thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:05, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

OK .. I'll take a look the first chance I get .. thanks for keeping me informed, I appreciate that. — Ched :  ?  20:14, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I've nominated the page for deletion as he doesn't seem to get it, or at least he hasn't taken any action. The age/privacy issues are more "urgent" than the fake article issue, and it would be better if the page didn't exist. Maybe he'll take the hint now that it's been nominated and prune it because some of the stuff is perfectly acceptable (material about Wikipedia).--Bbb23 (talk) 00:39, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Understood. I'll take a look the first chance I get. — Ched :  ?  00:41, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

You might want to clarify your !vote on the MfD page. Davy has adopted your word (support). I think Davy is using it to mean "keep", whereas I believe you are using it to mean "delete".--Bbb23 (talk) 00:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Belated thanks

Thank you for the barnstar/compliment. I appreciate it. Cla68 (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I admire so much of what you do here; but hate it when you push things to "block" levels. But, you're an adult, and I know you do things for a reason - so it's not for me to judge. You have my respect Cla68, perhaps more than you know. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  19:45, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

An important project WP:WEaPOn (about Paid Operatives) I have initiated is up for speedy. Can you assist? Urgent. TY. ```Buster Seven Talk 06:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Ched...The edit below was taken from User talk:Joedesantisis. I had informed User Joe of the above speedy deletion of a project WP:Paid Operatives that, in a round about way, was about him. (Are you dizzy yet?) I did it as a courtesy thinking he may wish to make a reply or have input. Absoltuely no animas was intended. I had "canvassed" my friends (you included) and was just beginning to "canvas" the few editors that may have been in support of the Speedy. The following edit was left after mine by User Kenatibo. The 'BS' is me, Buster Seven. This is the type of conduct I am releatedly required to put up with from this editor. An attack like this is very hard to ignore and needs to be dealt with ASAP. Nothing I say or do will appease him. Please advise my next step or better yet, visit his talk and advise him of the seriousness of the hate he is directing toward me. His smiley face does little to hide his aggression. I am also asking for the advice of Will BeBack and Casliber. Maybe one of you can put a stop to it. ```Buster Seven Talk 01:30, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Buster, good to see you. I did skim that essay, but I admit that I haven't gotten the full wealth of it quite yet, and I haven't followed through on many of the links. On first blush, yes, I agree that the Kenatipo comment shown above is indeed very offensive. (at least to those with a religious leaning). I'll have to admit that I often tend to avoid both the political and religious areas on wiki because of all the acrimony with both. I don't much care for bullies, tyrants, manipulators, and game players. I'm sorry I haven't had the wiki-time to research this, but of the people you've mentioned above - I think Casliber is a fine, upstanding, and honorable choice to request guidance from. From all I've seen, he would be fair - and do his best to do the right thing. Let me know how it all turns out. — Ched :  ?  14:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

All is well. I've decided to leave that essay. It has become infested and shows signs of decay. I still think paid operatives subverting articles so they always slant favorably toward their bosses is a problem but the Encyclopedia will survive. I left the ball in the middle of the floor. If someone picks it up, fine. In the meantime, I'll just go back to meandering. TRA! ```Buster Seven Talk 08:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

TRA? — Ched :  ?  09:37, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

It's from A Taste of Honey a 60's British film. Friends all said it to each other. Like "Hi" and Bye". TRA! ```Buster Seven Talk 02:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

ahhh ... cool. Never saw the film. Is it any good? — Ched :  ?  03:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Chick flick. From a play. Pregnant girl. Other guy helps her. Friends. Yea, good date movie. LOL...```Buster Seven Talk 04:30, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye open for it. .. ty. :) — Ched :  ?  14:28, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Precious

	kindness and constancy
	Thank you for being the reliable source in person, trusting your friends even if people say they deceive you, teaching me vocabulary ("impervious to advice") and abbreviations (you know what I mean). Thank you for your faithful presence, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so very much Gerda .. this is a thought I shall cherish for a long time to come. :) — Ched :  ?  22:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Here is another one

See your civility/sandbox, and raise the stakes to wikifinity. cheers, NewbyG ( talk) 19:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi there NewbyG. First, thank you very much for your much valued input in that project. I admit that I have taken somewhat of a backseat there, but I have read some of the great posts. Also, my on-wiki time is rather limited at present, and much of my available time has been spent in reading through things rather than posting. I do have a few thoughts I want to share, and will do so in the next day or two. I did want to get a feel for how other folks felt about the subject before I said much. I do think some sort of "RfC" could be benificial, and I'm still turning over in my mind how it might be best presented. Thank you again for everything, and I will follow through on your link and thoughts soon. Hope you're having a great weekend. cheers. — Ched :  ?  19:36, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Same same. *My time has its limits too online. That sounds good, to cogitate a bit on any ideas that may fruit, and also have a fine weekend. NewbyG ( talk) 23:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Regarding...

...your note from a couple of days ago: I bow to your wisdom... and to your crystal-ball skills. It took all of 2 more days (or less) for the door to slam shut (again), and I kind of doubt it's going to be re-opened so quickly this time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:37, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I was just reading through an AN/I thread. My guess is that this will be the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. All good things come to those who wait I think. I give you credit for being spot-on from the first. But I find that's often the case - you have a good eye for that kind of thing. :) — Ched :  ?  22:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

The downside of having a good eye is that sometimes you get punched in it. :( Nothing a nice steak won't cure, though. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Very true. Actually, I admit I'm pretty bad about noticing sock stuff, but there is one account that sure has caught my eye lately. I suspect it's trouble waiting to happen, but we'll see. Actually I was kind of hoping that MSK would come do good work here rather than raise a fuss - thought maybe if she found the good stuff here, she might take some positive things back to WR ... but ... doesn't seem to be the case. — Ched :  ?  23:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

If you want to discuss that other case offline, feel free. Regarding the user in question here, I was hopeful that they would shift their focus to actual articles, which is what wikipedia is theoretically supposed to be about. I'm sure that sounds funny coming from me, but I so have a lot of items on my watch list, and most of my time here is actually spent keeping an eye on them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:49, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't really know anything - but sent email. — Ched :  ?  01:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I saw. And I don't know either. But it bears watching. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

• Wow~! Is it that time again? Bear hunting season? (PS:Bugs, indeed we have that gift for spotting socks but some other admins just want a more scientific approach to that, maybe we can draft something up for them to read?) --Dave ^{♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫®} 06:58, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

So would that be this bear or that bear?.... lol. — Ched :  ?  07:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hey, hey, hey... he's smarter than your average bear~! --Dave ^{♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫®} 07:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Nah, this bear. Pesky (talk) 20:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Would you like to join in?

Your sandbox has very few people's pawprints in it. I seem to have made a den there. Pesky (talk) 19:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Pawprints? Den? Between this and the previous section, Ched's page is turning into a bear market. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys and gals. I do want to get to that civility sandbox thing indeed. Just that real life has been very very busy right now. LOL at the "bear market" .. very good Bugs. :-) ...

anyway - looks like I'll be pretty much away from things for a few days, but the good Lord willing, I'll hope to be back by early next week sometime. If I get a chance, and the opportunity - I drop a line or two over the weekend, but don't be surprised if I don't. ttys I hope. — Ched :  ?  22:33, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky grins wolfy grin, wags tail] :D Pesky (talk) 22:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

• Meep meep~! Friends of Bugs again... --Dave ^{♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫®} 17:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

[Wolfie admires nest in den; feels lonely....] Did I scare everyone else away, or something? Pesky (talk) 19:19, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

hmmm

I'm probably tilting at windmills again... but... I'm starting to think that perhaps the rational adults need to re-take control of a few things around this site. Just sharing some inner thoughts. Peace and best to all. — Ched :  ?  18:24, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure there must be some here somewhere. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry Ched, but you're the only responsible adult that I know. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 11:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish I were not one - it would be somewhat of a relief to have another "higher" view to step in and say: "These are the black and white lines that you must stay between". Oh well .. onward and upward I suppose. — Ched :  ?  19:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC) ... Oh, and thank you by the way - a very nice compliment that I appreciate greatly. There are quite a number of good, mature adults about the project - I think it's just very often they don't inject themselves into situations where a lot of mud-slinging is going on. An old saying I'm reminded of: "You can't wrestle with a pig, without getting dirty yourself". :-) — Ched :  ?  21:06, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Could you assist?

Would it be possible for you to drop a few friendly, wise and thoughtful words over here? I can see why an editor might "lose it" to that extent, but ... but. Kim did a report over at AN/I for personal attacks, and the situation really wasn't "resolved". K is a genuinely expert editor; we need more like her, and driving her off the 'pedia really doesn't help the 'pedia at all. Pesky (talk) 07:53, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Adding: do you know what the policy (if any) is on using collapse templates on another editor's talk page, and marking something as "resolved" on another editor's talk, at the same time hiding your own personal attack over there, and removing it from view anywhere else it was mentioned, too? My own feeling is that if this editor really thought that there was nothing wrong with what they said, they wouldn't want to hide it from public view so quickly and so extensively. I'm a bit out of my depth here. Pesky (talk) 10:45, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

They seem worked up. If you give them time and space to calm down, things may improve. The host editor could fix their talk page the way they like, and leave a polite note, "Please don't refactor my talk page. I keep it the way I like it. Thank you.". Jehochman ^Talk 14:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Darn. Double darn. I was really hoping to be able to get somewhere and try and retrieve the situation, if it was at all possible. Thing is, I can empathise with both of them; I hate it when situations go like that – such a waste. Pesky (talk) 16:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

First my apologies for not responding to this in a more timely manner. Hi Pesky - I will take a look the first chance I get, but I'll also note that Jehochman appears to be aware of the situation as well. He is also an admin., and I believe he views things objectively, and tries to offer fair and impartial advice. I am sorry that you are experiencing troubled times on wiki (sadly, there seems to be all to much of that for many here). I will take a look the first chance I get though. <Ched gives Pesky 'gampa' hugs>. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  19:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

On one hand, Kim will eventually be back, she's quit in a huff before. On the other hand,SMc WAS out of line to lay out the personal attack that occurred and call her a WP:DIVA -- that was right up there with WP:DICK and was uncalled for, particularly when the underlying issue was a capitalization dispute, of all things. Kim has strong views, she doesn't need to have a sexist attack for them, SMc should have just stuck to the issue. I think we have another example of where a content dispute turned personal. Both sides should agree to just Drop the stick. Montanabw^(talk) 19:22, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Is this all over that capitalization of birds issue/thread that I once noticed? (I still think the comment in that thread about "birds can't read - so what's the difference" was the best.) I had a quick look at the talk page (first link in this thread), and my first impression at first blush is that SMC seems to have dug in his heels and appears to be rather unapologetic and unyielding. Typically when I run into those types of situations, I tend to just wander off in another (less confrontational) direction. I'll research a bit more when I get the chance. — Ched :  ?  19:31, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

My problem was with what you can see (in the history) was posted on K's talk page, really. Anyhoo, I've unwatched SMcC's talk, as he's basically told me to stop badgering him, and was clearly getting very irritated with me as well. Maybe he's just going through a particularly bad patch, or something. (But I do have to stifle a grin when someone calls me "dude"!) P.S. Actually, nobody other than admins can see it any more; it appears to have been revdel'd. Pesky (talk) 19:57, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Part of it (about a sixth?) can still be seen in the left-hand column here, though. Pesky (talk) 20:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

yea .. looks like things were going downhill there for sure. They appear to be very knowledgeable, but not particularly friendly or open to discussion or compromise. — Ched :  ?  02:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

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3. NewbyG ( talk) 21:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

OK .. fine with me. I'll think about what the next steps should be with that. It seems to have run its course right now. I'll post something there in the next few days. cheers. — Ched :  ?  04:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

You're invited to DC Meetup #28!

DC Meetup #28: March 10 at Capitol City Brewery
DC Wikipedia meetup #28 is on Saturday, March 10, 2012, from 7pm on at Capitol City Brewery in downtown DC. (11th & H St NW). Join us for an evening of socializing, chatting about Wikipedia, discussing Wikimedia DC activities and the latest preparations for Wikimania 2012. (RSVP + details)

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Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot (talk) 02:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC), on behalf of User:Aude

To be quite frank with you Mr. bot ... I would love to meet some adults who edit Wikipedia .. but they seem to be far and few between. — Ched :  ?  05:18, 7 March 2012 (UTC)