Cherso

Grazie

Ma sono pessimista, sono da solo a combattere un'orda di fanatici. --Giovanni Giove 23:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Confuso

Sono confuso poichè non capisco il motivo per il quale bloccano Giovanni Giove ma non il provocatore ultranazionalista croato DIREKTOR che è stato diffidato dal modificare una serie di articoli ma continua a inserire i suoi assurdi punti di vista in tali voci come Istrian exodus. Puoi segnalare il recidivo DIREKTOR a un amministratore? Puoi rispondermi qui sotto. Ciao, LEO 17 nov 2007

Sinceramente credo che bisogna segnalare Kubura invece di Direktor. Questo Kubura non fa altro che attaccare e disprezzare e ridicolizzare chi non la pensa come lui sulla Croazia. In fondo Direktor ha qualcosa di italiano nel suo passato, mentre questo Kubura é completamente un fanatico croato. Attacca finanche i Serbi nazionalisticamente (un certo Paxequilibrium lo ha fatto anche esaminare da wiki checkuser per possibili collegamenti con sockpuppet l'anno scorso). Quello che e' certo e che tutto il problema intorno agli articoli sulla Dalmazia e' cominciato col suo continuo "punzecchiare" (chi non e' nazionalista croato come lui) e richiamare admins a punire Giovanni Giove ed altri. Basta rileggere la history dei suoi edit per capire come agisce da alcuni anni. Il meno che fa e' dare dell' ignorante a chi nega i suoi POV, basati spesso su testi titini.--Cherso (talk) 22:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Opportunity to answer

'Cherso', I'm not an unreasonable person. Now it's up to you to persuade me, despite overwhelming time-line evidence to the contrary, as well as your identical 'Greater Italy' interests, that you and Giovanni are not one and the same. I'm ready to hear it. I'm afraid that IP evidence doesn't suffice, though, as I can go to my local market tomorrow and buy an IP disguiser. So, over to you, my friend. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 23:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Italians in Corfu

Giovanni/Cherso, where are your numbers showing that there was an Italian community in Corfu? Show some stats evidencing them as a group, please.AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Expressions

Cherso (or whoever you are), be careful with your expressions.
As I've seen here [1] (this is obviously your edit), you've used words: "Giovanni Giove -continuously harrassed for months/years by Kubura".
What's this, Cherso? Point to others, so that others won't point to you?
"Harrassing" is a heavy word. Lie and false accusations is a heavy thing on wikipedia. It's Giovanni Giove who permanently threatened to his opponents "you'll be reported to admins", "you're a vandal", whenever they made edits he didn't liked. That's harassment.
Blaming a user (for things he hasn't done) is not a "doesn't matter thing". The blamer cannot falsely blame and just get away with it. That's considered as disruptive behaviour (telling lies to admins, etiquetting of users).
If you're Giove, stop playing. Live a life.
If you aren't Giove, than please, read the conversations I (and other users) had with Giove, on his talkpage and on other talkpages.
See also Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Dalmatia/Evidence.
I'm not the first Croat that encountered Giove's temper and persistent ignorance.
After a year of propagandism on Wikipedia, it was logical that Giove would collect enemies.
Do you know what Giove said on it.wiki? This [2]. If you expect that after that, that any Croat that saw (and sees) that message 'd stay calm, you're wrong.
Further. Why are you afraid to tell the toponym in Croatian? In English, it's Cres. Live with that. Times of Mussolini have gone. Kubura (talk) 13:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Kubura (or one of your sockpuppets), you are a Croatian nationalist who believes that even in Wikipedia can be done the crazy Balkan wars! Only ridiculous Croats can go down to "Stamp" level and see Italian irredentism menaces on simple stamps!! Your lies are astonishing: you started the attack on Giove in the Italian wiki, successively you wrote to many admins against him until you got him irritated with your group and finally you got him "banned". Now is it my turn? What else in the future....? Tito times are gone, open your fanatical eyes: Croatia is going to be part of the European Union, even if you don't like it! And within the European Union all the opinions (and even our Italian opinions) will be democratically taken in consideration (in one way or another) by the "European Croats" in the future. Be sure of this, even if you don't like it. From today I am no more going to deal with you and your group of fanatics. But I will monitor what you and your group do with the dalmatian related articles and notify (with precise references about your changes) the authorities & the serious admins of Wikipedia.--Cherso (talk) 00:01, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

"Kubura (or one of your sockpuppets)" or "Kubura and his sockpuppets".
Crese moj, you've sent such messages around on few talkpages. That's etiquetting. Some of the text wrote above can be treated as harassment.
Now, few answers:
1) "stamp" level is nothing?? Why don't you provoke the French with "Nice: western areas that used to be Italian"? Or why don't you try to put a Mussolini on the stamp? And sell that stamp to a British or American war veteran that's on vacation in Italy?
2) Is "your turn"? It's nobodies turn. All users involved here want you to wake up. Wikipedia is not a site for placing revisionist and expansionist wishie-wishes and propaganda. We don't want to live through the same story again, just because a meatpuppet of a troll has appeared.
2) In a message above, you've insulted whole nation - you call Croats as ridiculous.
3) About my "lies" and "attacks" on Giove: if you have weak memory or you're lazy to browse pages a little, that's your problem. Read RFARB Dalmatia and evidence.
4) Forget about EU. My vote is NO. Croatia can go in EU only if sanctions were imposed (by whole world), by fraud on referendum or if Croatian colonial government or its string-puppet theater called Croatian parliament passes the law, with which no referendum 'll be needed for joining to EU.
5) We're small people, but we have a history of proudly saying "no" and actually doing "no" (no matter how many kiss-as* politicians we had, "no" party has always won), however the opponent was strong. "No" to Mussolini and Hitler (the biggest guerilla leader ever was Croat Tito, one of Allies). "No" to Stalin. "No" to Milošević. "No" to whole world when they've waved with slatkorječivi (sweetmouth) promises, if we stay in a dungeon called Yugoslavia together with a bully, Serbia. We've never regretted.
6) About your last sentence: it reminds me on Giove's threats, only in modified form: "and notify authorities and serious admins". You've with your behaviour already collected enough material for your wiki-indictment, and if the admins were more informed, you'd already "earn" a sanction. Kubura (talk) 10:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Kubura/Afrika_Paprika?etc..., be informed (evidently you TOO are an ignorant) that France has not created problems in the sixties about an Italian stamp related to the Italian Briga & Tenda in the French Nice (Nizza) county. But France is a civilized country, while your Croatia is a Balkan new country still full of nationalists like you (and your group) who fear even simple stamps! I don't call all the Croatian ridiculous, but only the nationalists like you, because of your RIDICULOUS stamp fears! In my opinion most of Giove's opinions and edits are RIGHT, while yours are full of typical Tito-era lies. Finally, who cares about your No to Europe? You MUST accept soon that Croatia -you like it or not- will be part of Europe like Slovenia, and all the Croatians will open their eyes to every opinion (even that of we exiled Dalmatian Italians). All Croatians will decide what is right and what is wrong about all the opinions in Europe, and the Tito supporters will NOT decide for them anymore, as has happened until now. "Enjoy" this reality, my dear fanatic nationalist.--Cherso (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Tito

Cherso, you wrote "Cultural Imperialism? Wow, what a "skyscraping terminology"....you learn quickly the typical Tito/Stalin phrases in Ljubiana, don't you? Cherso"

Well, let me tell you how proud it makes me that you compare me to Tito.

Let me explain some things to you about this part of the world. It's not a game, nor a joke, not fun. This part of the world has, for various reasons, been the scene of intense ethnic hatred and rivalry for hundreds of years. And then Tito came along, and suddenly it didn't matter anymore whether you were Serb or Slovene, Croat or Montenegrin... They all intermarried, had families, got on with life, had the same hopes, fears and expectations as anyone else in Europe. Just for once it didn't matter anymore. And now, I live in what you call 'Ljubiana', with friends who have parents from Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia and so on. This is the legacy of Tito. So you can compare me to Tito all day long and I will be very proud.
And I'll tell you about the other legacy of this region, the darker side, the reason why there are what you call "gangs" of people who watch what you do on English Wiki and are nervous.
Look at what Mussolini's thugs did in Yugoslavia. Have a good look at the Italian uniforms here: [3]. Seen enough?
I am an Englishman who has lived here for many years. I love this region, as you do, but the difference is that I love it as it is. You love it as a dream, because your father took you away when you were just a baby.
Let me tell you some things from my personal experience, which is just a tiny fraction of what the people of this region really suffered.
My wife's family had a farm on Haloze. They fed the Partisans and treated their wounded. One day the Germans caught a Partisan patrol, and tortured the young boys in it until they told them where they were helped. So the Germans came to this farm and shot the males and sent the females to Ravensbruck. Where they all died.
My best friend's grandparents and other family members died at Jasenovac.
Can you understand why people here are a little p**sed when you complain that your family lost their property at the end of the war?
The reason I am writing this is to ask you to please understand that your 'Greater Italy' edits, and GG's, and Brunodam's, are both historically wrong and deeply hurtful. That's why Wiki editors have spontaneously gathered, without any co-ordination, to make sure that there is no pro-Italian POV in any of the articles related to areas that were once under the Italian empire. If I were you, I would stop trying to say that the eastern side of the Adriatic is an Italian domain, as it just isn't true, historically, and it annoys people who have really suffered at the hands of your countrymen. And you can pass this message on to your good friend Brunodam. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 00:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

AlasdairGreen27, from your above message I understand that you are not an "english BOY living in Ljubiana"......You remember me more and more Kubura and his sockpuppets! Only one last thing: MEMBERS OF MY CHERSO FAMILY NOT ONLY LOST PROPERTY, BUT EVEN LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE TITO FOIBES AND ETHNIC CLEANSING! Anyway, if you like to be compared to the man identified by everybody in Europe with the word Foibe (like Hitler with the word Holocaust), be my guest! Enjoy it, my dear Croatian/Slovenian!! From today I will no more deal with you, but I will monitor what you (and your Croat/Slovenian group) will do to the Dalmatian related articles and notify the authorities (not only the admins) of Wikipedia.--Cherso (talk) 02:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Italian Exodus and Foibe has been Yugoslav overkill, but I am sure that you are forgeting 26 years of Italian occupation of Istria and Rijeka (21 year). It is ease to speak about other nation crimes and forget crimes of your nation. I am sure that you have never heard avout village Lipa near Rijeka where Italian forces has killed all population on 30 April 1944. All this events are 89 (Italian conquest of Istria) or 62 years old (foibe). It is time to think about future not past but nationalist are always forgeting this part.

On Kubura talk page you have writen about fanatical Croats. It is time that somebody tell about European Italians. This good Italians are making stamps in which they cry about lost regions, they are giving medals to fascist mayors and they are stealing fish from Croatian sea with words we are stronger. This European Italians are really cultural people :))

Looking Italian history for me is interesting how nobody of fascist leaders have been punished after WWII (example for that is Dino Grandi). This is saying enough about Italia and fascism

Yes I know that you will monitore my edits, but if you try to revert too many of my edits you will be blocked for Wikipedia:Stalking. --Rjecina 17:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry, Kubura/Rjecina/Afrika_Papryka/etc... I will not revert your fanatical & nationalistic edits. But I monitor all of them and report to the top wikipedian authorities. And, please, don't cry for a ridiculous stamp about Italian Fiume .....--Cherso (talk) 17:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Contributo

Ciao, sono pronto a dare il mio contributo anche se ho molte perplessità su questo progetto e non mi fido degli amministratori. Devo leggere diversi articoli e controllare le relative cronologie per capire chi vuole solo provocare e chi è in buona fede tra questi croati quindi mi regolerò tra qualche giorno. Riguardo i sockpuppet puoi chiedere a un amministratore se possono controllare le utenze di tali croati o rivolgerti a questa pagina o a questa pagina o a questa pagina.--PIO (talk) 17:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of whole sections

Cherso, you cannot do this [4], what you've done on 23 Dec 2007 in 17:48.
You've deleted whole section (these were the things that Italian officials have said.) with online references (to newspapers, not some shouting portals nor extremist sites), and to make it worse, with no explanation on the talkpage (although there's no excuse for this blanking).
That kind of behaviour is forbidden on Wikipedia.
You're warned for the first time.Kubura (talk) 08:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

You too are warned, fanatic Kubura! You are harassing me as you did with Giovanni Giove...and you are doing vandalism in the article Italia Irredenta writing references without importance and erasing the Italian POV. All this is forbidden in Wikipedia, dear Afrika_Paprika/Kubura or whatever is your actual user name!--Cherso (talk) 00:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Edits of a sexual nature

Reminding you of your user history [5], and the compelling evidence that you are interested in more than just Italian Imperialism, such as your interest in the article entitled Cunt, and your helpful edit to it [6], it's hardly surprising that User:Kubura has had to make the following edit: [7]. Thank you on behalf of all Wikipedians for your contributions to this encyclopedia. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 23:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

You and the "fanatic croatian" Kubura are so IGNORANTS that are not even able to understand that user:209.215.160.103 is an american public library I.P. and that many persons can use that IP. I have NOTHING to do with "edits of sexual nature", be sure of that...anyway, I don't care of your "clever" opinions, but all this harassment will be reported to serious Wikipedia authorities soon!--Cherso (talk) 00:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I should give you this.

This is a link to the "Assume good faith" guideline. While we all have the urges to make incivil, unconstructive comments from time to time, we must all learn to suppress this desire for the welfare of the encyclopedia. I hope this comes to be a helpful tool in your arsenal, and we look foward to seeing your name in more article history pages! Best, --Gp75motorsports ^{REV LIMITER} 12:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

Cherso, do you have something against Slavs? This edit of yours "Finally, the Slavs have lost some territories in ex-Yugoslavia since WWII and withdraw from Albanian Kosovo..." [8].
"The legacy of your Tito (with his ethnic cleansing) is starting to disappear". You mean, Kosovo?
Dear Cherso, Kosovo IS Tito's legacy. It's him who gave Kosovo the status of equal member of Yugoslav federation (only, Kosovo was autonomous province, part of Serbia) with the Constitution from 1974.
So, Kosovo's vote in Yugoslav federation was equal as anybody elses, like the vote of Slovenia, Croatia, B&H, Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia and other autonomic province, Vojvodina (the latter one was also autonomous province, part of Serbia).
Don't worry, Cherso, I know very well how our Albanians friends suffered under Aleksandar Ranković and Milošević. Do you know that in Yugoslav prisons, unlike their share in total YU population, Croats and Albanians had the highest share of political prisoners (Albanian share rose sharply in 1981) in total number of political prisoners in ex-YU?
Do you know whome Kosovo Albanians called for help during Yugoslavia (especially in 1980's)? On the demonstrations, they wore signs like Croatia, help, Croat brothers, help us.
Do you know how the Kingdom of Serbia suppressed the Albanian rebellion before WWI (Serbian social-democrat Dimitrije Tucović wrote about the atrocities that Serbian forces committed; note: Tucović felt compassion with Albanians in those writings)?
Do you know how the minister of Kingdom of Serbia (I'll post you the name later) in 19th century have organized the Serbization and de-Albanization of regions that surrounded Kosovo (Serbian writers wrote about Arnautluks in areas outside Kosovo; like Borisav Stanković in Nečista krv)?.
So, believe me, I'm so happy for Kosovo Albanians that they have now their freedom.
Especially when I hear the same messages pointed towards newly independent former Yugoslav federal unit, about abolishing and illegal secession, came from Serbian and Montenegrin leadership when Croatia and Slovenia declared independence; only, in 1991, they used military forces in attempt to occupy those countries and forcefully prevent independence and keep the territories of those republics in Greater Serbia (under the name of Yugoslavia).
So many Kosovo Albanians volunteered to fight for Croatia in Croatian War of Independence.
Their former prime minister, Agim Çeku, was Croatian military officer.
If you think that Croatia cries because of Kosovo's independence, you're wrong. Otherwise, Albanians from Croatia wouldn't organize celebration in Zagreb (that was on Croatian national TV, HRT).
Albanians in County of Split-Dalmatia, also organized the celebration, with gratitudes to Croats, Croatia and Croatian President Stipe Mesić for everything they did for Kosovo's independence (aired an minute ago on Hrvatski radio-Radio Split). Kubura (talk) 14:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Barnstar of National Merit Italy
		I hereby award you this Barnstar for your work on articles related to the country of Italy. --Brunodam (talk) 14:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Amico

Ciao amico, dopo l'incomprensibile messa al bando di Giovanni Giove un altro amico ossia user:Mariokempes abbandona questo progetto che personalmente considero fallimentare. Nonostante tutto continuo a redigere articoli e mi accorgo che i soliti fanatici di ogni etnìa son sempre pronti a guerre editoriali così assurde da risultare pure ridicole. Il problema di questo progetto è che i redattori sono quasi tutti ignoranti quindi anche gli amministratori: io son stato messo al bando da certi amministratori ignoranti e fanatici nella sezione italiana o meglio italiota che fà rima con idiota!!!! Ho contattato molti utenti e amministratori, tra i quali due di nazionalità italiana, per tentare di far cambiare la decisione contro Giove. Dalla lettura delle tue varie discussioni ho appreso che sei esule dalmata dall'isola di Cherso e la tua famiglia fu vittima della pulizia etnica fatta dai comunisti titoisti: purtroppo i responsabili di quel crimine furono di varie nazionalità, italiana compresa. Ho letto i commenti di utenti slavi in questa pagina ma quello che non riescono a capire, specialmente i serbi, è che in quel periodo storico era enorme lo scontro di matrice politica-ideologica proprio tra cittadini italiani quindi tutti gli articoli correlati necessitano d'integrazioni: in tali articoli non si cita la criminale collaborazione tra Palmiro Togliatti e Josip Broz contro cittadini italiani innocenti; Norma Cossetto e tanti altri furono vittime di partigiani italiani comunisti che stavano preparando l'istituzione di uno Stato chiamato VENETO SLAVO con capitale Trieste e lingua ufficiale italiana, ovviamente associato alla federazione iugoslava comunista. Tale Stato doveva comprendere Friuli, Venezia Giulia, Quarnaro, Istria e Dalmazia sino Ragusa-Dubrovnik ma il presidente statunitense Truman, non volendo cedere questo ipotetico Stato alla zona d'influenza sovietica, minacciò di scatenare un attacco militare contro l'esercito titoista quindi Josip Broz fu costretto a ritirarsi per non esser fatto a pezzi dall'armata statunitense. Ho letto vari libri su questo argomento poichè la moglie di un mio zio era esule di Abbazia e so che i comunisti italiani di allora erano fanatici stalinisti pronti alla guerra civile: puoi leggere it:apparato paramilitare del PCI (1945-55). Poi, dopo lo scontro Stalin-Broz, la situazione cambiò ma questo accadde nel 1948: difatti i comunisti stalinisti italiani, mandati da Togliatti in Iugoslavia, furono rinchiusi a Goli Otok e altri campi di concentramento. Ciao --PIO (talk) 16:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Venezia Giulia

DIREKTOR broke his restriction. Read here [9]. New evidences were posted in Venezia Giulia. You can post your comments- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.201.210.91 (talk) 16:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)