CosmicSophisTree

AfC notification: Draft:Jason Miller (occultist) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Jason Miller (occultist). Thanks! Robert McClenon (talk) 03:40, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Jason Miller (occultist)

Hi, I got your message. Welcome to Wikipedia. I guess I have a few comments to make about different things. Active links in my post are mostlyto our policies and guidelines.

First, please do not use Wikipedia email unless you need to have a private discussion only indirectly related to encyclopedic content; anything to do with content should be discussed in public view, such as on user talk pages. So I am replying to your email here.

Second, you are editing on behalf of a registered company, which creates an immediate and strong conflict of interest. You need to make this very clear on your user page, and also to clarify your relation to Jason Miller. On the other hand, you may well have expert knowledge which you can draw on for many articles, so please do not be unduly put off - I merely urge caution.

Third, Wikipedia has what I would call a strong positivist approach to paranormal, occult and other fringe phenomena. That is to say, both policy and the community are dominated by the view that it is all unproven nonsense. Your article will be appraised by very jaundiced eyes, be warned.

OK, now to your draft article Draft:Jason Miller (occultist). Use of the Draft namespace is not mandatory and anybody can move the article into the main content. However if it is unacceptable it is far more likely to be summarily deleted, so I would not recommend it. Asking experienced editors like myself to take a look is a good way to speed up the review process. I took a quick look and it is clearly not acceptable as it stands. Some observations:

• Referencing overall is very weak. Few if any of your references are to independent reliable sources. I can find no corroboration of Miller's notability, such as commentary in independent publications or major media attention. Without these, your article will never pass review.
• Links to pay-for training courses constitute outright spam and need to be deleted ASAP, I may well do that myself.
• Claims about him appear unsupported or vague. Where is his music? Who claims that his roles as a Sorcerer (paranormal) and a magician (paranormal) are distinct, and on what basis? As they stand, they lend a promotional air and provide good examples of what you need to avoid - either bolster them with reliable sources or delete them.
• You say you feel that he is pretty important. What specifically is important about him and which reliable sources say so?

I am sorry if all that sounds a bit harsh, but that is the way Wikipedia works. In particular, if insufficient independent reliable sources exist to verify his notability then an article for him would be inappropriate.

A final word of caution. A great many people constantly come along thinking they can game the system and slip stuff past us. It never works for long, we have evolved extremely robust community and technical measures in place to catch and block such miscreants. They sometimes waste a huge amount of time and effort finding that out the hard way. I trust that you are not remotely of that kind, and I sincerely hope you can find an editorial niche here.

— Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 05:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Steel Pillow,

Actually, your feedback is extremely valuable, and I greatly appreciate it!

I think I'll address your commentary in reverse order.

• Thank you for the warning. More than likely my editorial niche will probably be related to critical theory and the occult/paranormal, but only time will tell.

• From what I've seen, several individuals in the occult community tend to be ungrounded. Something that I have noticed pertaining to Jason Miller is his ability to ground them into reality: getting a job, starting a business, grappling with finances, etc etc. Whether it be through his magical teachings or just that he is a teacher or life coach, I think this is pretty noteworthy. Furthermore, from a magical perspective, within the magical community, it seems to me he does offer a distinct paradigmatic shift from chaos magic and "traditional" magic, both of which I mentioned in the article. It may be that perhaps more needs to be written chaonimism from members of the occult community. Maybe I'll try to start that conversation somehow.

• I appreciate the comments about his music. I will see if I can hunt down resources.

• Next, what do you define as "independent" sources? I know that he has been published by folks within our community, and several people who are popular within the occult community---some of whom are of the chaos magician persuasion such as Gordon White---have interviewed him. Are you referring to media produced by a non-subaltern community, like Newsweek?

I'm definitely going to incorporate your feedback. Out of curiosity, how would one move something from draft space to mainspace? It's been a long time since I've edited and published something onto Wikipedia. As you can tell, I am a part of the magical and occult community, albeit somewhat displaced. I will talk a little more about my identity on my user page to address any potential conflict of interest issues

Much kindness,

CosmicSophisTreeLLC 07:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC).

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jason Miller (occultist) (August 9)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by DGG were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jason Miller (occultist) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Jason Miller (occultist), click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DGG ( talk ) 04:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, CosmicSophisTree! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DGG ( talk ) 04:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

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Your draft article, Draft:Jason Miller (occultist)

Hello, CosmicSophisTree. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Jason Miller".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Celestina007 (talk) 10:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Jason Miller (occultist)

Hello, CosmicSophisTree. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Jason Miller".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 12:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)