User talk:Dirtlawyer1/Archives/2015/December

RfC notices

[1] Hi Dirtlaywer1. It takes two to editwar, and I am not commenting on who is worse. The RfC slightly bemuses me.

However, on the RfC, seeing as you seem to care about proprieties of RfCs, may I share my opinion that has not previously gained traction: Noting that many RfCs are either (or both) poorly written questions, or written with bias, I think that every RfC should require a seconder. The seconder would be any other editor in good standing to agree that the RfC is well worded and appropriate. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:08, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

@SmokeyJoe: Thanks for stopping by, Joe. You and I have been on the same side of previous contentious discussions, but intelligent people cannot always be expected to share the same opinions and perspectives. That said, I have zero personal animus toward you, not least because I expect that we will return to the normal status in the future, when we are usually on the same side of the debate. Yes, there are multiple problems with the present RfC, including its poor wording, its misrepresentations of existing policy, a non-neutrally-worded RfC question, a strange bifurcated voting structure which does not reflect actual AfD practice, as well as a non-neutrally-worded RfC notice. It's pretty apparent the OP does not know how to conduct a proper RfC. As someone on the other side of this debate, I would be grateful if you try to clean up the RfC. Otherwise, I am going to have to attempt to correct, clarify and provide additional voting options that I am quite certain will not be received in the neutral, non-partisan manner they are intended. As a lawyer, I believe that process usually matters and new project-wide policy should not be made on the basis of confusing, partisan discussions. Unfortunately, not everyone shares that perspective. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 03:27, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

"try to clean up the RfC"? Oh God no. Once the RfC has started, not matter how badly worded, the original wording is sacrosanct. It is far easier, as is frequently done, to sink the RfC by accusing is of having a biased introduction. I really think RfCs need some hurdle, such as a seconder. Unilateral badly word RfCs are a menace, and there are so many RfCs that it is exhausting to browse them.

On the current contentious debate, you seem to not notice that I feel uncommitted and uncontentious. I have stated my opinion, and now wish to try to parry challenges. Unfortunately, very unfortunately for all of Wikipedia, to not respond at all to a challenge is to admit the challenge. Very weird that bit of culture. I get your points, but still think, just undelete the history. I think I am motivated to de-escalate the Cunard-Spartaz frictions, they are both good when not together. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:03, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Hello, can you help me ?

hello, I do not know if you remember of me , I am the person who created the page of the Trojans of USC football team for the year 2016, I have a little problem .. Someone named : Bagumba have protect page of 2015 , I don't have access there could you help me to unlocked page or how I could access them again , I have done so much for this page , I will like to continue :) :) thank you

Hi, RCFrance. You can request a reduction in the protection level on the article by visiting the Request for page protection page. Just follow the directions, and you'll be able to request that the article protection be changed. You'll need to ask the administrator who originally protected the page first. If nothing comes of it, then you can post your request there. ~Oshwah~ ^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:29, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Possible SPI

If you can point me to three or four representative pages ostensibly created from scratch by [editor no. 2], I can tell you with pretty high confidence whether or not [editor no. 1] created them, if that is what you are asking. As for the two accounts, the pie charts are pretty dissimilar (Norton nearly 84% to mainspace, AL more like 61%). Over the course of 5,000 or more edits, that is pretty hard to fake. You are what you are in terms of the areas you edit... I will say also that I very much doubt [editor no. 1] would sock, just as a general hunch. I'm off to work pretty quick here so my apologies if you kick something my way and there is a short delay. Carrite (talk) 17:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

The sleep times seem to be different also. Already highly doubtful that it is the same person just based on editing characteristics alone. Carrite (talk) 17:41, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I looked one up at random, HERE. Absolutely not the same person, [editor no. 1] uses citation templates always, always, always, not the < ref > method of footnoting. Carrite (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Looking at your links and similar situations for both editors now. You're one of the experts on "editor no. 1," and that's why I asked. For obvious reasons, I would like to keep this discussion as anonymous as possible, because if there is no connection I don't want to add to the woes "editor no. 1" has been through. Accordingly, I have gently redacted your comment above to "anonymize" it. Please forgive my presumptiveness in doing so.

Editor no. 2 clearly had a previous life on-wiki; no one just shows up and starts performing large numbers of moves and redirects, significant article creation, nor instantly knows linked policies and guidelines well enough to aggressively assert themselves at ANI. That said, editor no. 2's previous incarnation may not be editor no. 1 based on your analysis. I will ping you back with any further observations after I explore your suggested line of research regarding reference styles. Thanks for your quick response. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

No worries. Definitely not him. Start by figuring out whether AL uses Brit English, that will narrow your search considerably. Off to work. You should run the gauntlet at RFA again, by the way. Carrite (talk) 18:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I may consider doing so sometime next year, but I fear that I am radioactive -- I have an unfortunate habit of speaking my mind plainly, and perhaps too often. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

You might be pleasantly surprised next time around. See if you can have NY Brad nominate you... Carrite (talk) 05:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

If NYB were willing, I would be honored. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:56, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Another special exception to MOS:INFOBOXFLAG

Did you know that there is a special exception to MOS:INFOBOXFLAG for military vehicles? No? Neither did I. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I would think this would far better be discussed on the relevant article page, or on my user page; this looks a bit like poisoning the well. Anmccaff (talk) 22:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Hammersoft: Nope. Missed that one. An argument can be made for individual commissioned ships of a national navy because they do have a representative capacity in relation to their country in the same manner that a commissioned officer does, but I don't see that applying to individual military vehicles like an M1-A2 Abrams tank or a Willy's Jeep. We already over-use flag icons in our military history infoboxes (you know this), but I believe the guideline makes a specific exception for this. People don't quite seem to absorb the basic layout and design principle: one flag icon is a symbol, but 20, 40, 75 or 100 is graphic confetti. I have repeatedly defended the limited and appropriate use of flag icons, but I don't know what to do to convince people that trains, planes, automobiles, dinosaur bones, and multinational corporations are probably better off without. . . . Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
• @Anmccaff: FYI, Hammersoft and I have a long-running debate about when it is appropriate to use flag icons. We agree sometimes, and disagree others, and our debates have actually led to changes in the present text of MOS:ICON, as well as in the way at least one WikiProject use flags. Without seeing the case in dispute, I can't say for sure how I would react, but as a general principle, I think flag icons for military equipment is probably unnecessary and adds very little to the reader experience. Bottom line: assault rifles, tanks, aircraft, and hand grenades do not represent a country. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
• @Anmccaff: and Dirtlawyer1; in placing my comment here on DL's talk page, it was not to recruit him as someone to agree with me. Indeed, as DL notes, we often disagree and have been at loggerheads before. My point had nothing to do with the articles where Anmccaff and I are disagreeing; which is why I didn't link them. My point was in regards to earlier discussions that DL and I have had before (examples: 1, 2, 3). The whole flags in infoboxes is, in my opinion, silly. There are times when it is appropriate, such as DL notes in national representation. The problem is flags are willy nilly in various articles to a given editor's taste, resulting in non-conformance across the board to the guideline. But, the guideline exists. Overriding it by reverting someone attempting to enforce it is not the way this should go forward. If there is to be a change to it, then get the change rather than reverting to preferred versions. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

• Well, it appears from the above:

We disagree sometimes, and disagree others

that you disagree universally. That said, I withdraw any implication of skulduggery here.

On the point itself, though, this isn't an example of flag confetti; we are talking about a single icon, and I have a real issue with discussions that often get hijacked by Defenders of the Rule who show up unbidden whenever their pet regulation is infringed, and that is certain to happen in a formal discussion about making an explicit exception Anmccaff (talk) 23:54, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

• If you don't want to request an exemption, how do you expect to get one other than by reverting those who apply the guideline? --Hammersoft (talk) 00:10, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

• ...um, well, you did notice that was exactly what I did, but only to the articles that came up on my own watchlist? If you get a groundswell of other reverts, that oughta tell you something, if you don't, it oughta tell me something.

• That said, I think there may be a reason for me to let it go, since there's an obvious, but equally valid, difference between our positions as to what makes a thing peculiarly national. You've suggested that successful export "dilutes" the national standing; I'd suggest it often reinforces it, but I can see the other interpretation, which could lead to flag confetti all too easily, with different writitors (sic) applying it based on different standards. Anmccaff (talk) 00:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey! No fair removing the typo after it has already led to mocker....um, editing! The correct approach is to follow the writitor in question until he makes a good typo of his own, which in my case is regrettably easy. Anmccaff (talk) 19:39, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I re-read your comment at least three times before it dawned on that the error was mine. Typos are the bane of a proud writer. Let me know what else I may do to help. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Marcus Maye

He might deserve a page now 1. Cake (talk) 19:05, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Maybe. The major All-America selectors -- i.e., the selectors the NCAA uses to determined "consensus" status -- are AP, WCFF, TSN, AFCA and FWAA. A USA Today selection is not considered a major award per WP:NCOLLATH, so it will depend on how much significant coverage he receives per WP:GNG. My suggestion: do a Google News search and see what coverage is out there. Most first-team All-Americans should get a feature or two. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick rundown. Perhaps the most interesting Florida selection of the myriad All-Americas I've seen so far. Glad I don't have to pick between the halfbacks. Cake (talk) 06:25, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

A year ago, you were recipient no. 1062 of
Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:53, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Fred Baron (footballer)

Yep, over 80 appearances in the Football League. Needs improving though. GiantSnowman 21:53, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

"Needs improving though." Indeed. FYI, I have your talk page watch-listed. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

UF logos

I replaced the logo being used in the Florida Gators men's basketball per our discussion at FFD. Feel free to tweak it or its nfur as you see fit. I will try and incorporate any changes you make when I upload the remaining logos, and I will try to get to that when I get the chance (mostly likely in stages). Regarding the "2015-16 gymnastics" article, I really wasn't out for blood. I was just trying how point out how hard it can sometimes be to stay on top of non-free logo usage because I think many editors just copy and paste images they find in one article into another article without really checking the file's licensing. I've seen a non-free image removed multiple times by different editors, only to be re-added each time sometimes by the same person and sometimes by others. I guess since it's assumed that since Wikipedia is a "free encyclopedia" that everything in it, including images, etc., is also by default "free". I do like images in articles, but I don't necessarily see their usage as essential or automatic in each and every case. Anyway, as you mentioned in your last FFD post, I think it's only worth bringing to the attention of an administrator as a last straw when attempts at discussion have failed. Finally, the comment I made about "local consensus" wasn't meant to be a knock against you in anyway so hopefully it didn't come off as such. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:56, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Not sure if there's an article about the men's soccer team yet, but the badge used on the the team's offcial Facebook page could possibly be used there. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: It's all good: you raised the perceived problem, and proposed a reasonable resolution that complies with a literal reading of the new exception no. 17 added in 2014. Once the pending resolution is fully implemented, I seriously doubt this issue will be raised again for the simple reason that a single logo file will no longer appear near the top of the list of uses of non-free images. I am satisfied with the outcome.

I have tweaked the fair use rationale to make full use of the relevant template options. I am uncertain from where you derived the "minimality" parameter of the template, and it does not display as far as I can tell. I saw no harm in including it, so it remains as hidden text. Please advise as you upload the additional team-specific images, so I may review and add the file talk page text regarding restrictions on use of the images.

The issues regarding the 2015-16 gymnastics season article are of general concern, and the WikiProjects for the University of Florida and the Florida Gators do our best to comply with NFCC policy. Your summary of the problem is accurate based on my personal experience: less knowledgeable users simply copy-paste the image file from the first article where they saw it into additional articles where they would like to use it with no understanding of the necessary restrictions on its use. In order to reduce this problem in the future, I will be adding hidden text messages next to each new team-specific logo file in the primary team articles as we substitute them for the existing non-specific Gator head logo. It does not guarantee compliance, but it should give a user pause before simply copy-pasting it to another article. I maintain a watch list with all University of Florida and Florida Gators articles; unfortunately, I cannot anticipate the creation of new articles such as the 2015-16 gymnastics article. We deal with such as we become aware of them.

Like you, I only request administrator action as a last resort, but when someone refuses to comply with policies, guidelines or established consensus after tossing them a friendly carrot or two, I have no reservations about requesting the stick treatment. In this case, unrestricted use of these logos jeopardizes our continued use of them for their intended purpose and editors on the margins need to be made aware of this.

As for the men's soccer team, it is not an official varsity team of the university's Florida Gators intercollegiate sports program. Given that the club team is non-notable per WP:GNG, it is unlikely that it will ever have a stand-alone Wikipedia article.

Thank you for your collegial approach to the issue raised and for your active cooperation in resolving it. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The "Minimality" parameter is part of {{non-free use rationale 2}} which is the default template added when a non-free logo is uploaded via the Wikipedia:File Upload Wizard. There's nothing wrong with using that particular template per se, but I just switched to {{non-free use rationale logo}} because it was being used for the "Gatorhead" logo and because it automatically fills in the main parameters according to "Purpose" selected. I must have forgotten to remove the "Minimality" parameter, so sorry if that caused a little confusion. Anyway, thanks for tweaking the nfur and for uploading the remaining logos. Just for reference, I was intending to get to them as well; I just wasn't exactly sure when I would be able to do so. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:29, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: No worries, sir. I figured I would just go ahead and knock the rest of them out, adding the customized restricted use notes, etc., as I go. One fewer thing to worry about during the holidays. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:34, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

File:Xmas Ornament.jpg

To You and Yours!
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:35, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

@Bzuk: Merry Christmas to you too, sir! "God bless us, every one." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings!

Hello Dirtlawyer1: Enjoy the holiday season and upcoming winter solstice, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

@Northamerica1000: Thank you, sir! May your holidays be warm and bright and filled with love for you and yours! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:57, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Andrew Sledd

Very pleased to see the article promoted to FA. Warmest congrats! Tim riley talk 15:41, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you very much, sir. As always, it was a pleasure to work with you, and my product is a better one for your insightful input and thorough editorial review. I look forward to our next collaboration. I hope your holidays are warm and bright -- Merry Christmas from Atlanta. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:27, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Greetings cordially reciprocated. Can we look forward to futher FACs from you in 2016? I hope so. Tim riley talk 18:53, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Coincidentally, Mike Christie was just poking me for more of the same. I think my next FAC target will probably be the John J. Tigert article, and I have another half dozen or so to improve for GA review in the first half of 2016. If you're available for a peer review of the Tigert article, I would be grateful. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:48, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
      • You bet! Please ping me. Tim riley talk 15:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
• (talk page stalker) Hadn't realized you were working on an FA; congratulations! Opabinia regalis (talk) 04:32, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations on the article's promotion to FA, and a Merry Christmas as well. Finetooth (talk) 05:42, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Uploaded something you might like....

I saw your young lion image on Opa's TP, and thought you might like something with a little umph. Hey, if you're gonna be a lion be one with a full mane. Atsme^📞📧 09:05, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I am lion, hear me roar.

The ability of a cat to open its mouth wide -- whether yawning or roaring -- is nothing short of amazing. Almost as if they have unhinged their jaw. As for the lion's mane, I have always thought that the lionesses were better looking cats than the males. The male lion's mane has always appeared somewhat ridiculous to my sense of aesthetics, and apart from mating rituals I cannot imagine what evolutionary purpose it might serve -- especially in the middle of the 100-degree African summer heat. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:59, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Females like their mates with a full head of thick hair. Actually, it's kinda like a peacock strutting around fanning his beautiful tail feathers. It also shows potential rivals they are physically fit and healthy. It's all about the pride, especially where competing lions are concerned - pride goeth before the fall (pun intended). Atsme^📞📧 20:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Sunshine showdown

Believe me I don't care much for the name but it's actually a thing. Here are a few websites

http://www.stubhub.com/sunshine-showdown-tickets/grouping/420917/

http://saturdayblitz.com/2015/11/28/sunshine-showdown-watch-florida-florida-state/

http://www.wcjb.com/sports/2015/11/gators-fall-seminoles-27-2-sunshine-showdown

http://www.secsports.com/article/12743439/gators-take-sunshine-showdown

http://floridagators.com/news/2015/9/21/31270.aspx

I believe it's for all FSU-UF games. Not just football.--SeminoleNation (talk) 20:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

@SeminoleNation: Please note --

1. StubHub.com is a ticket sales site, not a reliable source.
2. SaturdayBlitz.com is a fan blog, not a reliable source.
3. SECSports.com is a reliable source obviously, but not an independent one.
4. FloridaGators.coms is a reliable source, too, but also not independent, and obviously the UAA is trying to fulfill their promotional obligations to VisitFlorida.com.

I did a Google news search yesterday for the 2015 Florida-Florida State game, and found over 200 articles in the national and major regional media (discounting AP wire article reprints). About a half dozen of the 200+ articles briefly mentioned the "Sunshine Showdown" name in passing and not one mentioned VisitFlorida.com's tourism promotion; it's kind of silly of them to try to attach a name to the game when the football rivalry is already one of the best known in America over the last 25 to 30 years. It's on par with trying to rename the Sugar Bowl and then get everyone to use the new promotional name; the overwhelming majority of fans and sportswriters will simply continue to refer to the game as the Florida-Florida State game. And it doesn't help that they picked a cheesy name, either. Perhaps a one-sentence mention/explanation at the bottom of the article (or the bottom of the lead) would be appropriate, but it needs to be clear that the "Sunshine Showdown" name is not widely accepted or used, which is why I lean toward a brief explanation at the bottom of the article, rather than cluttering the lead with a discussion of the tourism promotion. That said, there is no question whatsoever of changing the article title. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

That is okay. I really don't care for it. I just call it the "FSU-UF game" haha Do what you want. I just saw it once and thought it was worth of mention even if it was pretty cheesy and wierd. You're right though it probably shouldn't be up there.--SeminoleNation (talk) 01:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

@SeminoleNation: The only Florida rivalry nickname that ever had wide circulation was the "World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party," which was original, not an invention of the media, widely used by alumni, fans and media, and like all great nicknames had a ring of truth to it. WLOCP has, of course, fallen into disuse in this era of MAD mothers, political correctness and a much harder line on public intoxication. Back in the day, when men were men, and women attended Florida State College, a lot more liquor was consumed. The Florida-Florida State game has plenty of luster to it without a cheesy nickname. That said, I will think on it, and see if I can incorporate the sponsorship name into the text. BTW, congratulations on the 2015 win. Hopefully, the Gators will give the Noles a better game next season. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:20, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Jim McElwain has turned that program around. He's a great coach and he recruits well. Feleipe Franks is gonna be pretty interesting to watch when he starts as QB. I definitely see an era of great Florida football coming. It's been a while since both UF and FSU had great 90's style matchups. I probably sound like a terrible Nole but I wish the best for that program. I know next years game is gonna be one for the books. I can already feel it.--SeminoleNation (talk) 06:29, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Miniapolis is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas5}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks for your greeting, and have a wonderful holiday season! All the best, Miniapolis 14:25, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Dirtlawyer1. You have new messages at RP459's talk page.
Message added 22:29, 22 December 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

-- RP459 ^Talk/_{Contributions} 22:29, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2016!

Hello Dirtlawyer1, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2016. Happy editing, Alex|The|Whovian 04:43, 23 December 2015 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Thank you for thinking of me, Alex. May your Christmas be a warm one down under, filled with family and those you love. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:15, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Team color bars in tables

DL, is this appropriate? I don't think I've seen this "style" in American football articles, but perhaps it is used somewhere. Seems to much to me, and I reverted it with a request to discuss on the talk page. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 06:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

BilCat (talk · contribs) I don't mind a little splash of color, but all use of color on Wikipedia is supposed to impart some information, and not be merely decorative. That said, there are also color contrast problems with several of the text/background combinations presented by Jhn. We have dealt with that in the Module:College color/data by substituting white text (or black in a minority of cases) for the lighter team color, if necessary, while using the darker team color as a background. The side-by-side presentation of so many different small color swatch combinations is also a little jarring from the standpoint of layout and design, and that's only going to become a bigger issue as more teams are added to the list of CFP participants. All things considered, I would forgo the use of team colors in the CFP article. I have watch-listed the article and will join the talk page conversation if anyone objects to your removal of the colors. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 06:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

78.26's RFA Appreciation award

	The 78.26 RFA Appreciation award
	Thank you for the participation and support at my RFA. It is truly appreciated. I hope to be of further help around here, and if you see me doing something dumb, you know where to find me. Again, I thank you. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 01:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Have a lovely festive season, Dirtlawyer.

I'm glad you're here. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

@Anthonyhcole: Thanks, Chief. Yours is a voice we need, too. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:05, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's greetings

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2016!

Hello Dirtlawyer1, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2016. Happy editing, AussieLegend (✉) 13:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

@AussieLegend: Thanks, Aussie. Best wishes for warm Christmas down under. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas to you too!

Merry Christmas to you too, DL. I wish you all my best this holiday season. Billcasey905 (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Bill -- and thank you for all you do here for college sports. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

	Merry Christmas!!
	May you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, Thanks for all your help and support, and of course all your work, on Wikipedia!    – Onel5969 TT me 15:21, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

@Onel5969: Thank you, sir. "God bless us -- every one." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:11, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Thanks for your greeting! Merry Christmas and I wish you a very Happy New Year! --Carioca (talk) 21:52, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@Carioca: Thank you, Carioca. May you and yours enjoy the blessings of the season. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:15, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

	Merry Christmas!!
	Hello, I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year, Thanks for all your help on the 'pedia!    –Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 21:44, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@Davey2010: Thank you, sir. Best wishes for a very merry Christmas! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:19, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

xmas

thanks for the note - hope your break is great too! 151.230.27.47 (talk) 22:11, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

The new user

Hey I happened to see the exact user and I have now asked RHaworth to take care of it, in case, you thought restarting the ANI case. SwisterTwister talk 19:16, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@SwisterTwister: Thanks. Resolute and other admins are currently watching. I would expect forthcoming action. I assume this is the same guy who left similar user appreciation awards a few months ago. It's a game to see if he can get a rise out of the targets, and how quickly some admin will block his account. No worries. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:20, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I actually would never mind amicable messages if it wasn't for what these actually mean. I thought of notifying Resolute but I haven't seen any new activity from them so I notified the next user I know is always active, RHaworth. SwisterTwister talk 19:23, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

You guys are rather popular today, aren't you? Resolute 19:32, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@Resolute: Yes, indeed, it is hell being popular. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:35, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

My talkpage

Hello User:Dirtlawyer1, could you tell me what happened on my talkpage and why the history has been deleted? It concerns an edit by User:Bandersnatch2015. Thanks! Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:08, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@Hebel: Sure. The user in question is a single-purpose-account vandal and serial sock-puppet who periodically shows up to hand out barnstars and user appreciation awards like the "Barnstar of P-------y," today's offering. Since he clearly thinks that's funny, part of the response is to deny him his giggles by deleting his handiwork everywhere, including in the talk page edit histories. That's why the admins rev-del'ed the edit history. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:18, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I see! Thank you! Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:29, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Sie sind willkommen, Chief. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:35, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Danke schön! However, (other than my surname might suggest) I'm Dutch! Haha! Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Deutsche, Dutch, Frisian, Saxon, English . . . It's all very confusing to us insular Americans, Gerard. We probably should get out more. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:54, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Legal threat?

DL, is this considered a legal threat? It's a bit odd anyway. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 20:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Note that User:Denniss is German, and active in MILHIST on German-related military topics, and an admin on Commons. - BilCat (talk) 20:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@BilCat: Kinda sorta maybe. Probably better just to ignore it, unless he makes a more explicit threat. If you want to be a good citizen, you could gently warn him regarding WP:NLT on his user talk page, without expressly accusing him of anything. Is this guy on some kind of tear to remove all references to "Nazi Germany"? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I just wasn't sure if I ought to warn for a legal threat or not. I'm not good at giving "gentle" warnings, usually preferring hammers. :) - BilCat (talk) 20:54, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea about the issue at hand, but I agree with BilCat about gentle warnings, I prefer hammers. lol. CrashUnderride 21:50, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

It's more that my being gentle feels like a hammer to others! :) That, and templating is easier. - BilCat (talk) 02:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Roger Dixon

Roger Dixon: Gator of minor note, thus far at least. Delete? Jweiss11 (talk) 01:14, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: I suggest you PROD the article, and nominate it for AfD if that doesn't work. Dixon was a junior transfer and walk-on in 2014, who earned a scholarship in 2015. Got some coverage, together with other former walk-ons, in August when McElwain announced their scholarship awards. Has one catch for 9 yards as a senior. Any coverage that smells like significant are blogs, fan sites, or reprints of athletic department material. Not notable by any reasonable measure. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Ping

Hello, Dirtlawyer1/Archives/2015. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

- BilCat (talk) 19:28, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it very much. - BilCat (talk) 20:46, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey, BC. I asked admin Liz to take care of it. She's a good egg, and usually responds to requests. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:14, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Gold medals swimmers

I only did a handful of swimmers, but stopped when I saw there was a separate category for diving. I guess i didn't see the syncrhoized part, or accidentally put it together (I was using AWB). I've fixed them. Is it synchroized or synchroised? I've seen categories/articles with both spellings. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

@MrLinkinPark333: "Synchronized" is the American spelling with a "z"; "synchronised" is the British spellng with an "s". Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Stats tables on biographies

I could probably find opinions on this elsewhere but I've decided to bug you once more. Are stats tables encyclopedic? I notice most Good Articles don't have them. However I find them very convenient and I usually seek them out. Lizard (talk) 18:48, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with a stats table if the stats are pertinent to the subject, limited and well organized. It usually helps to use standard 2- or 3-character abbreviations for the column headers. Who's the subject? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Charles Alexander (running back), Dalton Hilliard, Tommy Hodson Lizard (talk) 00:27, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

	Happy New Year!
	Best wishes for a wonderful 2016!---- WV ● ✉ ✓ 00:01, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Winkelvi: Thanks -- best wishes for another productive year on Wikipedia! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Navbox La. Sports HOF

Would you say a navbox for inductees into the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame is appropriate? Lizard 18:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: There are a number of sports hall of fame navboxes in existence. Several years ago, I cleaned up the navboxes for Template:Florida Sports Hall of Fame and Template:University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame, and re-organized them so that they were actually useful aids to reader navigation. Since then, my thinking has evolved somewhat, and I question whether clumping 100, 200, 300, or more links into a HOF navbox is the best way to go. As an alternative, you can add a link to the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame article in the main body text (if relevant) or the "see also" section of the individual athlete articles. If you're still gung ho to create the navbox, be sure to organize and segment it in a manner that facilitates reader navigation among the links (e.g., alphabetically, by sport, etc.). You should probably also review the WP:NAVBOX criteria, too. Please let me know if you have any other questions, etc. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:15, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

After seeing the work put into it that it takes, my gung isn't that ho anymore. Lizard (talk) 18:24, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: Well, with a little work you could always move the Billy Cannon and Bert Jones articles to Good Article status. Let me know if I can help with your other CFB endeavors. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:40, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

That would be my goal, to get at least one article to good article status. I had planned it with Charles Alexander but I fear there aren't enough reputable sources on him. Lizard (talk) 18:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

It also doesn't help that the season i decide to work on Alexander's article is the season someone decides to break all his records. Woe is me. Lizard (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

It helps when you have a good subject, with a good story to tell, and bunches of contemporary newspaper accounts as well as later secondary sources such as biographical books and newspaper career retrospectives. I would think Cannon and Jones would have both in spades, but Cannon is the more interesting story -- the trick, of course, is to maintain NPOV and an encyclopedic tone, even when you have a fondness for the subject. In any event you probably need a Wikipedia account for Newspapers.com to selectively pick the best old newspaper coverage for footnotes, etc. I would also suggest that you need to familiarize yourself with The Times-Picayune online archive; it's Louisiana's newspaper of record. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:07, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

So if I were to, say, order the 1 day trial option for 50 articles from the Times Picayune historical archives, I'm guessing that means I'll have 24 hours to download a max of 50 articles? And there'll be a way to cite them without being smitten by the copyright gods, correct? Lizard (talk) 08:20, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

If I could add as an outside opinion... I personally have always disliked such navboxes because they fail in their purpose: navigation. There is no significant link between a baseball player from the 1970s, a university athletic director from the 1990s and a football player from the 2010s. Consequently, the value of such a template for navigation is negligible; the primary purpose of such a template is to serve as a list article in template space. That would be achieved far more cleanly - and without spamming dozens or hundreds of irrelevant links into each article - by linking the list article itself in the see also section. Resolute 18:35, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

@Resolute: Great point. Not to mention I personally don't even scroll down to the navbox section of articles very often. I didn't even notice they existed until just recently. Lizard (talk) 18:38, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Jane Frizzle

Sorry for the delay in replying!

It doesn't look particularly notable to me either, though it's possible this is one of those cases where someone is of local historical significance but the sources aren't clearly given. The Bishoprick Garland suggests she is treated as a substantive part of the poem rather than a passing mention (there's a short biographical note listed), which might push it over the edge. But even at best, borderline. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:28, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: Thanks, Andrew. No worries -- just about everyone is playing catch-up during the holidays. I've come across instances of similarly marginal subjects in less-frequented areas of Wikipedia as I have been transferring Persondata to Wikidata, but I hesitate to nominate them for AfD without knowing more of the specific subject area. It seems that so many of them were tagged by new page patrollers for various deficiencies and then promptly forgotten and never receive any s0rt of critical review. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Go Gators

I may have just beat the new year. Pretty content with most of the Florida Gators football main article. Feel free to clean it up, move things around, or send it to the copy-editors guild. Cake (talk) 04:23, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

PS I see Andrew Sledd was involved with Randolph-Macon College. I should know more about them, for they used to have a football team, and most connections to Nathaniel Macon are interesting. Cake (talk) 19:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Sledd played baseball for Randy Mac and Harvard, and was offered a baseball contract while he was in grad school at Harvard. As far as I know, he never played football. He was not hostile to college sports, but he was a hardcore believer in academic standards. His decision to cancel the 1905 football season is completely consistent with his compulsion -- both before and after his stint as University of Florida president -- to do the right thing even when it was very unpopular and regardless of the personal consequences. At the time he made the decision he was essentially under siege -- the City of Lake City was suing the state over the relocation of the university to Gainesville, a committee of legislators was trying to remove Sledd for the problems created by his predecessor, the feds were auditing the university for the use of Morrill Act funds, he was dealing with a freshman hazing scandal, and the state treasurer was refusing to release appropriated funds and unused carryover monies from the four predecessor institutions. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

One rarely hears of Randolph-Macon athletes. Sledd seems a neat guy to teach one Greek. Not often you see a Harvard and Yale grad either. Harvard had the "Wingate Cup" given to its best all-around athlete, and it was designed to go to the best baseball player (like the Porter Cup for southern football. George Owen had a Wingate Cup.). Wonder if Wingate was old enough that Sledd has one. I am also curious about Tigert's teaching philosophy. Ark Newton's son was a philosophy professor at DePauw hired in 1956 and still teaching in 1999. As to Sledd's academic and moral fortitude, and given the year, I have to mention that Amos Stagg very much had the largest reputation in football of doing right independent of others feelings - and funny enough Eckersall, his best player, probably had the weakest, as frankly a drunk. Cake (talk) 11:09, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: When you get a chance, could you use your talent as wordsmith to brush up the first paragraph of the section "First national prominence" - the beginning part before the mention of James Van Fleet. I feel I have laid out all the relevant facts for an introduction to the era, but lack the insight to weave them into a whole. Cake (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2015 (UTC)