User talk:Dreamer84/Archive 2

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Historical station boxes, historical lines.

Hi Dreamer84,

Thanks for your comments about Kilmacolm railway station and also for kindly sending me a note about the changes. I'm not going to make a song and dance about it, but it does raise some points.

1. At one level you are correct: in G&SWR days, Paisley Canal, Bridge of Weir and Greenock & Ayrshire Railways were all separate so you are correct in respect of trackway (but see point 3 below).

2. In BR days I travelled on the Paisley Canal line and I went to Kilmacolm, so for me the Journey on the old Paisley Canal Line was Glasgow Central to Kilmacolm and later Glasgow to Paisley canal; and I would like to record that in wikipedia articles and summary boxes on these lines.

3. I do like the change you made to "my" historical box on Glasgow Bridge Street railway station, and that seeded an idea. I don't like, for instance the way these boxes currently work, so for Glasgow to Gourock or Wemyss Bay, in respect of historical railways, the boxes sort of imply: Joint Railway to Paisley, change trains, G,P&GR to Greenock, change trains, etc. Paisley Gilmour Street was the end of various lines, but to me Terminal is wrong (and is a problem) and through services ran to Greenock and beyond.

I was trying the historical Glasgow to Greenock Princes Pier route out as an experiment; and that is what your changes have temporarily blocked. In G&SWR days, I would state that: St Enoch to Princes Pier was a through route, and in BR days St Enoch (later Glasgow Central) to Kilmacolm, via Paisley Canal, was a through route; albeit the names of the lines change. Any suggestions about how to improve the text in the historically boxes? Pyrotec 16:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Guys,

Can I add another thought - it specifically applies to Paisley Canal, but may also apply elsewhere. Between 1966 and 1983 there were occaisional timetabled trains from Paisley Canal to/from Johnstone. That does nto count several occaisions when passenger trains travelled the route following the closure of the stations in 1983 before the severing of the line at Eldersile (most as a result of derailments and prep work for electrification).

I have considered this in the recent edit I have added to Far North Line and Langside railway station I do not like out of date information being deleted, as it may have historical interest being kept.

A bit of a ramble I know - Stewart 16:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart, Thanks for the suggestion.

Having found that the same changes have been made to Paisley Canal railway station, I've re-inserted them under BR Lines. All the G&SWR Company lines were historical, but ceased to be independant upon grouping; so being pedantic any closures after 1923(?) did not happen on G&SW Railway Company railway lines, they occured on LMS railway lines or BR railway lines.

Pre-grouping Paisley Canal was Glasgow to Elderslie Junction; but it BR days, it was Glasgow to Kilmacolm; now is it Central to Pailsey Canal. BR is a historical railway, therefore it is back in the box.Pyrotec 16:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

See what you have done at User:Dreamer84/Sandbox1 for Paisley Gilmour Street and Dalry. Like it, looks to me as a way forward. Still not sure how to handle the period from 1923 through to present day (Williamwood being a case in point). Any thoughts from Pyrotec?

Stewart 23:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Only thing I'm not happy with is the wording "Services continue via X", trying to think of an alternative. And of course yes we are still left with the problem of post 1923, keep an eye on the sandbox for any ideas that might suddenly appear in my head (though nothing is guaranteed sadly!) --Dreamer84 23:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I like the station boxes as well; your ideas of colour-coding the historical railways helps. I recognised the first box as being Paisley Gilmour Street, but not the second station. Same thoughts on services continue: it is the message that I wanted to tabulate, but I could not find a more concise way of putting it. Possibly, however, we could dispense with the line open, station open statements.

I was trying, possibly too hard, to solve one problem: let's call it the Glasgow to Greenock Princes Pier route. Three historical companies, two end-to end, used essentially as one line; with the name of a historical company also used as a modern line name, but whose length changed over time. However, the old historical G&SWR and the modern GSW line have the same problems of contraction and partial reopenings.

Are we making a rod for our own backs if we do these boxes for every station, even the closed ones? For example: Bishopton now has Langbank before and St James afterwards (which way is forward, or is it a random choice); and St James has Bishopton before and Gilmour Street afterwards; but Houston/Georgetown was in between Bishopton and St James on the historical Caledonian line.

Pyrotec 00:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dreamer84,

I've done a copy and paste simplification and expansion on the Gilmour Street station box and added Paisley Abercorn, but made a (wrong) assumption that its services stopped at Gilnour Street.Pyrotec 00:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Ohconfucius deletion proposals

User:Ohconfucius has nominated a large number of Scottish Railway stations for deletion. Many of these are being developed as part of WP:TIS. I have removed the {{prod}}. However reading the user page he may contest this. Thoughts? I suggest replies are consolidated at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transport in Scotland. Stewart 19:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

He seems to be one of the worst of the Wiki editors...a deletionist. Douglasnicol 20:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway

Hi Dreamer84,

I remember travelling Glasgow to Euston particularly, on the sleeper services and on Sunday Intercity services, on this line in 1979 and through to the early to mid 1980s, whilst it was still double all the way down to Carlisle. So I don't think I would not agree with your date of 1973 as being a final service; perhaps it was for weekday services. I'll accept everything about Cook Street Bridge, as I was not using the services then. Pyrotec 18:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I should have read the article for carefully before commenting. I withdraw my comment. Pyrotec 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway (part 2)

Hey Stewart, just to say I've finally gotten round to experimenting with the the 'interactive map' thing we spoke about previously that I had started but abandoned a while back, see my Sandbox for what I've done so far. Basing the map on such an early date obviously misses out a lot of later stations, so the choices would be to either have more than one map, or just list the later stations in the article somewhere. Any suggestions? I've expanded the article too, and I've also tried to start fully references these articles as well, if you can fill in any of the gaps where I've put then feel free! --Dreamer84 21:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Filled in a few details. Some of the information will have been in contemporary railway magazines. My father had an extensive collection of Modern Railways from 1960 to mid 1980's. Unfortunately they were discarded when he died and my mother moved house a few years ago. I am fairly certain that these had an article about the Cook Street bridge. Living in Kilbarchan (in Milliken Park Road) at the time, I remember that week as the noise of the loco hauled trains reached our house.

What about Howwood railway station on the map?

--Stewart 22:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks for filling some of the gaps, and for fixing some of my mistakes (though can't remember where or who the erronous Paisley and Renfrew date came from!). Howwood was (apparently) closed during the time the map is supposed to represent, so I didn't include it. Since the map was supposed to be c. 1850, I thought it would be more accurate to have the 1850 names on them, hence Crosshouse's "Busby" name (Cunninghamhead should be Stewarton too but forgot to change it). --Dreamer84 22:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

That date may not be erroneous. 1847 is the year given by Lewin (1925) and Robertson (1983) in which it was sold; Awdry gives the date of completion of the sale as 31 July 1852.Pyrotec 21:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Cochrane Mill became Milliken Park (Cochrane Mill Road crossed the line just south west of the original station. Howwood is a few miles further south west, but I think you are right about the dates. It is early developments like this which cause difficulties. Maybe adding a date to the map would be useful, or adding Howwood in a different colour (or font) to indicate an early addition.

I have linked your Sandbox to my User:Pencefn/Historical Scottish Railways as a worksheet for the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway.

--Stewart 22:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There's already a date at the top of the map. ;-) I did get my wires crossed there about Howwood and Milliken as you may have noticed before I edited my message! A greyed out Howwood station is certainly another option. Ideally there could be say three different maps: one for the original configuration in 1840, one at the time of merging in 1850, another one later in the G&SWR days. The problem is the thing is so big that it would look silly having three maps that size in the article. --Dreamer84 22:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

One map is enough to my mind. How about italics for stations closed by 1850 (or in brackets?). I had missed the date of the map. Stewart 22:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The open stations in bold do not appear to be coming through in bold. Stewart 23:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that today at work. On my home PC they do appear bold, however at work they didn't (though they appeared slightly broader than the 'normal' ones). It must be to do with monitor resolutions, and the fact the text is small. Might end up being necessary to work with different colours instead if a solution can't be found. --Dreamer84 23:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Glasgow, Barrhead and Kilmarnock Joint Railway

Does Priesthill and Darnley belong in this article? I know the current station is of recent build, but I am not sure of the existence of a station on this site in the past. Stewart 21:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Photographs of Montgreenan and Cunninghamhead

Good pictures you have taken and posted today. This time is definitely the best time with limited vegetation growth. The two at the top of my current hit list are Castle Semple and Lyoncross - both stations which were never opened, but with some civil works carried out. Lyoncross is particularly difficult for access being still on an operational line. --Stewart 18:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, my main reason for the trip was to get a shot of something to put in the GPK&AR article for the Dalry-Kilmarnock line, since its sorely lacking in pictures. Was hoping to get a shot of one of the two viaducts on the line, but despite a quick trip over some fences and through a field it was difficult to get a good shot of either. Decided to get some station site pictures while I was in the area. I was actually surprised at how low-cut the grass is for the vast majority of the line. Top of my list is to get a photo of Auchenmade, which I believe still has its two platforms intact. --Dreamer84 18:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have been thinking about Auchenmade for some time as I drive past it to/from work some days (when I decide I have had enough of the M77/A71/A78). Unfortunately it is still dark when I go past at present and I was waiting until there was enough light in the evening. --Stewart 18:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I like the edit you have made in your Sandbox version of the GPK&AR article (adding a photograph). It has been in my mind for a while to target a line (I was thinking of the L&A) and spend a day or so taking photographs of disused stations and major structures. Unfortunately, current commitments mean that it will probably be early April (holiday, AmDram and work commitments). --Stewart 19:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sandbox 3

Hi Dreamer84,

I'm impressed and fascinated by your track diagram in Sandbox three, how do you construct it. Obviously if I go into edit mode I can see the mechanics, but I still have not worked out what you did. Pyrotec 21:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Info. I've not done anything with it yet; but I like the changes that you have just done to the Kilmarnock and Troon Railway.Pyrotec 20:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ayr Railway Station and Hotel

I was wondering whether the entry for Ayr Railway station should encompass any details on the hotel next to it. While the hotel has recently been cited as closed, it has changed ownership quite a few times in the past and it is possible it will be bought over. However, given its site it is fair to assume that the hotel was once owned by the railways and therefore falls under the umbrella of this project. Douglasnicol 21:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A Few things

Since we've decided that Gailes Railway station is situated practically where the level crossing is now, I added a not with an external link about the crash on Friday.

What I originally was going to ask about was the merging of part of the Caley and G&SWR lines at ICI. If you've read "Ayrshires Last Days of Steam" you'll notice that it says when the Caledonian section of the line was cut, it was 'attached' to the main G&SWR line at the sidings at ICI. Is it worth mentioning this or somehow integrating this into the track diagrams? Douglasnicol 16:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Local history glossary

Thanks for that. I have been 'Jeeped' now - see article. Wikipedia 'allows' glossaries - fair comment from 'Jeep'? Any thoughts on what I should do. Rosser. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rosser1954 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Rail Maps

Aberdeen Railway

Have tackled my first Historical Railway tonight. Have a look at Aberdeen Railway. --Stewart 21:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Local History Glossary

Thanks for the helpful advice. It is driving me a bit crazy, putting in thw work and then finding it does 'belong'. I suppose extending it to an encyclopaedia won't save it either. Rosser.

PS How do you 'do' this -User:Pencefn|Stewart]] 21:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)?

Add ~~~~ or use the "your signature button" on the toolbar at the top of this edit window. --Stewart 17:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Laigh Milton Viaduct

Thanks for the help with the Rosser 15:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I have just been down at Laigh Milton viaduct - taking photgraphs for an article. Your local I think. Please add anything you can or fix any mistakes. It's still work in progress.

Sorry - more tuition needed - what is this DYK?

Hello,

Thanks for creating article on Laigh Milton viaduct. Just for your information, I have nominated a DYK on this article, by having the following hook.

Rosser 19:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks -

Rosser 15:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Auchenmade railway station

I drove past there on my way to work yesterday morning and was debating the best place for a photo. I think that your picture Image:Auchenmade railway station 2007.jpg is great. It is amazing how the platforms have survived for so long. Well done!! --Stewart 18:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Springside Railway station

Hello. I drive past the old station site most days on my way to Thorntoun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorntoun_house_and_estate. Please add any info if you know the place.

I saw the Springside photographs in the Springhill Institute and asked for copies from the Springside History Soc. They also sent me very poor quality Dreghorn photographs (poor to start with) & a painting of Dreghorn station (poor quailty again).

The glossy booklet in the ref has no ISBN number and no one author. It was a sort of late millennium project by the sounds of it. It is available for a £5 from the janitor at the 'Institute'/library.

The ref. specifically refers to the dates of the closure and makes a few brief comments on the line & tells a story or two about the railway.

I see that you have been down to Kilmaurs station - I was going there today to take more photographs - the previous ones were in poor focus. I won't bother now of course.

Rosser 10:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Gatehead station

Hello. The Gatehead link takes it to Gateshead near Newcastle. Do you have any ideas as to how it can be made go to Gatehead, Ayrshire? - I hope to write an article for Gatehead. Rosser 12:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Co-ordinates

Dreamer, do you know how to get exact co-ordinates for a site? I would like to get them for the Springside and Gatehead village articles I am working on. Rosser 12:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Streetmap

Thanks. Rosser 12:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Sandboxes

Dreamer - thanks again. I have found the Wiki instructions rather over complicated - you have made it a lot clearer. Rosser 13:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

GPK&AR line lifted?

In your sandbox3 you say that the line was lifted in 1987. I think that may have been wrong as when I was in the Irvine ATC, we did the hike for our Duke of Edinburgh's award along a small part of that route and by that time there was no trace of track. Douglasnicol 15:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well our hike entered the line site at the A736 (Irvine to Barrhead road), the span for the rail bridge has been missing for some years, though it is possible that the Crosshouse end still had a line. To be honest I don't see the reasoning behind some of the cuts, the Kilmarnock - Dalry line seems to have been one that was sensible to keep, and as for the singling of the Kilmarnock-Glasgow line, that seems to have been a stupid decision that has bit the railway companies in the ass. Douglasnicol 18:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Kelvinbridge

Finally got out with my camera today. Today's target was Kelvinbridge railway station. Have a look. I think there may be too many pictures. I put a few onto the Glasgow Central Railway article, with one each onto Kelvinbridge and Kelvinbridge subway station. --Stewart 23:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Scotland disused station

Hi there, I like what you've done on Template:Infobox Scotland disused station, and was looking if there was one for other parts of the Great Britain and it doesn't seem there is. What would you think about moving it to Template:Infobox GB disused station, and expanding it for use across the whole of Britain? I think the only thing that would need changing would be the link to the Category:Disused railway stations in Scotland, but this would mean it could be used much wider. If it was moved, then the current name would redirect to the new name so it wouldn't break any articles using the template currently. There are of course many similarities in the way railway companies were structured across Britain and as such it would seem a waste to create a new infobox when the one you created seems to do the job well, and this would have the advantage of ensuring consistency. Adambro 21:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

If we can sort out the handling of the categories this may work. --Stewart 21:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Could change it to Category:Disused railway stations in the United Kingdom I suppose. Its just a shame there isn't a Category:Disused railway stations in Great Britain, because I understand the structure is very different in Northern Ireland. I do note however, that Category:Disused railway stations in the United Kingdom is described as "a list of British railway stations" so maybe that category is incorrectly named. Category:Disused railway stations in Northern Ireland is a sub category though so its probably really the description that is wrong. Adambro 21:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I note that Category:Disused railway stations in Scotland is a sub-category of Category:Disused railway stations in the United Kingdom. The latter category has quite a few sub-categories. --Stewart 23:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for a move to allow the infobox to cover the whole UK. Not sure why I made it Scotland specific in the first place, but I can't imagine there being much problem in expanding it. --Dreamer84 01:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Seconded! Andy Mabbett 16:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Alloway railway station

I've got a book about Ayr and its surroundings, it states that the Maidens and Dunure line reopened as far as the Heads of Ayr to service the Butlins Camp. The same book also states that Alloway reopened for time before finally being closed. I've changed the article, and put a reference to the book, however, I'm not sure how to alter the station information box. Douglasnicol 21:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Ayr-Stranraer Line

Hi, I was thinking in filling in some of the historical stations on the Ayr-Stranraer line, since at the moment, there are no historical railways entries. One question, I assume the line was under the G&SWR, were there any other companies before them? Douglasnicol 15:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Three Historical Railways cover this:-

• Ayr and Maybole Railway (RAILSCOT);
• Maybole and Girvan Railway (RAILSCOT); and
• Girvan and Portpatrick Junction Railway (RAILSCOT)

Your starter for ten. --Stewart 16:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Burns Line

Hello Dreamer. Thanks for that. Burns Line - you have a point. It's just that the 'old' Plaque at Kilmarnock station says this. I haven't seen it referred to as the Burns Line for years, so you are right. I have a pal who works for Network rail -I will ask him.

Rosser 13:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Closed stations on Ayr-Stranraer

I'm really not too sure on handling the infoboxes, I've tried to do a starter on the Ayr Railway station entry here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayr_railway_station#External_links

How does it look? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Douglasnicol (talk • contribs) 21:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC).