User talk:ElKevbo/Archive 27

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University of Santo Tomas College of Science

I just redirected this, and I have a feeling there's a few dozen more of those. I seem to remember dealing with COI editors of universities in the Philippines, but I can't remember if it was this one. Drmies (talk) 16:14, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

State University of New York

Hi! I've protected that page for a short while, but I'm not familiar with the history there (seems pretty troubled). Is the long series of IPv6 edits on 4 July OK, or is that more of the same, do you think? Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. This appears to be a persistent sockmaster focused on edits related to State University of New York Upstate Medical University. ElKevbo (talk) 13:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Moving to "The University of Texas...."

You undid my move of The University of Texas at Dallas and The University of Texas System pages and referenced WP:THE, well that page clearly states that you should include "The" when "universities only refer to themselves as "The University of X", even in running text (e.g. The College of New Jersey). If such usage is prevalent on university press releases and press kits, contact information, "about" pages, and internal department websites, and it is reasonably common in external sources (try a Google search), then it is more appropriate to name the Wikipedia article The University of X." As I stated in my edit notes, "The" is in their branding and on every single page, press kit, and marketing, it is part of their official and legal names and it MUST be used whenever the name of the university is written. WP:THE also states you write "The" when it is part of the proper name which is true in this case as well, the proper names of their universities are "The University of Texas at Xxxx" including "The." Matthew T Rader (talk) 18:33, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

You are welcome to request that these articles be moved to new titles so that other editors can discuss them and come to a consensus. But be mindful that we are not beholden to the wishes and demands, including those published in internal style guides, of our subjects. ElKevbo (talk) 18:36, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I understand that, I was pointing out that in this situation the guidelines support adding "The" instead of not supporting it as you implied. I didn't mean to come across combative. Thank for your help on Wikipedia. Matthew T Rader (talk) 18:53, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Can you please remove it

Hey, I would really appreciate if you removed that personal attack. I do not mind that you oppose the term's inclusion or if you make enthusiastic and strong policy-based arguments against it. But please don't make it personal and insinuate things about me and question my morality. Please remove it. ~ HAL333 19:33, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I continue to hold the opinion and if you continue that behavior - unnecessary use of terms that are very well documented as racist or bigoted - then I will continue to express my opinion that you should not be involved in writing articles and helping to select which articles represent our best writing. We can write about offensive topics without being offensive to readers. But to be collegial I will remove that specific sentence from that discussion. ElKevbo (talk) 19:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

ElKevbo and HAL333, I think this is an issue where it would be advisable to have an RfC. We don't want the future FAC to fail over opposes stemming from this issue, so it should be resolved one way or the other before that is opened. It doesn't seem likely that either of you are going to be able to persuade the other to come around to their view, so an RfC would help assess how the broader community feels and hopefully lead to a workable consensus. As a less-invested party, I'd be happy to set up the RfC if that's alright with you two. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 01:49, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Works for me. ~ HAL333 01:54, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! ElKevbo (talk) 01:55, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Reversion of meaningful post

@ElKevbo: can you please explain to me how your mindless reversion of MrOllie's post has increased the useful information on the following two pages? Did you actually look at the information removed? Can you honestly say the page is more informative by removing the main context of the page?

• BSAFE (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Comparison of TLS implementations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

MrSaul76 (talk) 03:13, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Stop edit warring. And don't think for one minute that you're fooling anyone with your "we're two completely different people who happen to edit the same articles in the same way" act. Shape up or you're going to be blocked from editing. ElKevbo (talk) 03:25, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

"Sunnydale Syndrome" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Sunnydale Syndrome. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 25#Sunnydale Syndrome until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

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July 2021

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at [1]. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Please refactor your comments. Accusing others of using racist remarks is completely out of line. Buffs (talk) 01:02, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Your link doesn't work so I don't what specific comment you're referring to. ElKevbo (talk) 01:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

fix accusing someone of using racist language without evidence is inherently uncivil. Buffs (talk) 15:10, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

[Personal attack removed]. --JBL (talk) 15:33, 27 July 2021 (UTC)^{Edited by {{u|Sdkb}} talk 19:42, 27 July 2021 (UTC)}

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Texas A&M Featured article review

User:HAL333 has nominated Texas A&M University for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

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Hi Kevin,

Sorry that this feels a bit out of the blue.

I'm a writer in the office of communications and marketing at Creighton University in Omaha. A couple weeks ago, our president asked that our office start keeping tabs on the university's Wikipedia page, since prospective students and parents will likely visit to learn more about the school. I don't have a lot of experience editing Wikipedia, so a couple weeks ago, I made a small test edit on the page, which I saw you replied to.

I've since read up on Wikipedia's conflict-of-interest editing policy, so I'll refrain from editing the page directly from now on. But I'm hoping you can give me a bit of info on the best way to propose changes so I can share it with my other team members. If there are a few people keeping up with the page, I want to make sure they know what's appropriate and what's not. We're really only interested in small edits that ensure accuracy, such as keeping the enrollment and endowment figures up-to-date.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide, and if there's someone else you recommend I talk to, feel free to pass along my contact information.

Blakeursch (talk) 13:55, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

ear ElKevbo (Wiki Editor),

I am writing to you because I am a supporter of the work you have done to maintain high quality and equity of the content on Wiki pages. In the spirit that I have seen your work I wanted to bring to your attention to a wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_educational_theory

This page has been highjacked in the Month of March 2019. The original content that you edited and helped bring to a balanced and objective perspective is corrupted. The wiki page has been in existence as of 2014 with edits for improvement especially from you as well as other editors. The page is now filled with inaccuracies and misstatements. The edits appear to be in the process of converting the living educational theory wiki page into a promotional page.

Why am I concerned? I used this page for preliminary insight into the methodology of living educational theory. Living educational theory site described the approach well, provided a strong background and helpful references. The site was also a great summary of the theory which I used for my students. I tried to make changes and the site is corrupted so that replacing the prior text does not appear to work.

I have taken this unusual step to contact you directly because it is important to keep Wikipedia as a resource that has high quality and integrity of the content. I enlist your help in correcting this page.

With Gratitude Erevna (talk) 19:58, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Faith Seminary, Baltimore MD

Mr. Guidry. I recently tired to update the article on Faith Seminary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Theological_Seminary). You notified me that because I am a member of the board of directors I cannot update the page (due to my interests). I would ask you then to update the page with the information that Dr. Jerry Harmon is our current president (as of Jun 1, 2020). You can find this information on our website http://fts.edu/about/staff/. Thank you.

Thomasaeddy (talk) 19:44, 16 September 2020 (UTC)Thomasaeddy (talk)

Hello

I am trying to add recently named notable alumni by Tulsa Community College to its wiki page. The selection of notable alumni by the college, 1970-present, was cited as a source and biographies of each alumni is included in the citation I provided. The selection is made by the college and the contributions of those selected is quite impressive. For example, Clifton Taulbert. Please let me know how to add names to the list. I teach at TCC and the list is available on their site. Thank you. Maryphillips1952 (talk) 17:05, 17 September 2020 (UTC) maryphillips1952

for profit at University_of_Antelope_Valley

Greetings. I removed the words “for profit” from this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Antelope_Valley

You put them back because " still considered a for-profit by the Department of Education: https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?id=442930”.

But… None of the other schools on this list have “public, private, for profit, etc….”. Why must these words be included in University of Antelope Valley’s page when none of the other schools have this type of description on their page?

98.153.143.130 (talk) 22:15, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikibreak and invite

Hi ElKevbo! I see you're still on wikibreak—take as much time as you need, but just wanted to say we'll be grateful when you return, as the work you do here is really valuable (even if the PR folks you battle with don't tend to recognize it haha). I wanted to extend a particular invitation to comment on the Pomona peer review if you're interested. I'm trying to get that article into the best possible shape so that it can serve as a model for others, so it'd be extremely useful to have your expert insights about it and (I hope) your support once it goes to FAC. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:37, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

One other: it would also be very helpful to have your insights here if you are interested. I hope to see you back again soon! {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:39, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I second that emotion. Kevin, you have done great work in the Wikipedia space, work that has been admirable and remarkable. The numbers alone are mind-boggling: almost 100,000 edits and almost 3,000 articles created! CollegeMeltdown (talk) 20:00, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Kevin; great to see that you're back! To give you an update, I'm planning to launch the Pomona FAC within the next few days, and the Texas A&M FAR is still open. Your thoughts would definitely be appreciated at either article, since it's so important that we have more than just Georgetown to point to as "here's an example of what a good college article should look like". If you plan to share some thoughts on Pomona, lmk and I can hold off on the FAC until you've had a chance to do a peer review of sorts. Also, as always, let us know on the project page if you're encountering troublesome articles anywhere and would like help. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:07, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Thanks for the reminders about those FACs. I don't have anything to add to them. In my experience, there are so few editors that regularly work on higher education-focused articles that it's no surprise that articles that were once up-to-date (both in terms of content and compliance with current Wikipedia standards) slowly fall into disrepair.

If there are any specific comments or issues where you would like my input, please feel free to ping me! ElKevbo (talk) 02:26, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Will do! Regarding disrepair, there's not much we can do regarding standards compliance (hopefully Wikipedia is mature enough that standards in the future won't evolve as drastically as they have in the past), but for content, I think a key thing is Wikidata integration. Getting an army of editors to update e.g. student body size every year will never be feasible, but setting up an import of IPEDS data and running it once a year should be doable. Mike Peel and I were working on getting the infobox to be capable of drawing data from Wikidata a little while back, and I hope that'll eventually come to fruition. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

UW-Eau Claire 9 November 2021

Hi ElKevbo! We noticed that you removed the controversies section of the UW-Eau Claire wiki page. Right now, Hernanma7296, Popps3637, Kyliejudd, and I are editing this wikipedia page for a group project. A big part of our editing was on the controversies section to make sure they were all correct and accurately represented. Is there a specific way we should include this in the history? The controversies section has been in the UWEC wikipedia page for quite a while, so we just want to understand how you think we should incorporate these separate events into the history. Thanks for any guidance you can provide!Meyerle9611 (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi Meyerle9611—thanks for working on the page! The main consideration here is WP:NOTNEWS. Most universities have regular controversies of one sort or another, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia rather than a newspaper, and our goal is to summarize information of historical importance rather than to provide detailed coverage of every controversy. Think about whether or not someone ten or even fifty years in the future would find the level of detail provided on an incident appropriate in a several paragraph—length account of the university's history, and keep it only if so and only at a reasonable length, merged into the overall history section. Hope that helps! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:38, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Berea College update

As I mentioned to you, there is a lot of information missing from the Berea College Wikipedia page and we'd like to help remedy that in advance of our search for a new president. Can we work together to update that info? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.68.112.171 (talk) 13:58, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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University of Saint Joseph, CT

Good morning Dr. Guidry,

My name is Val and I am writing on behalf of the Marketing team of the University of Saint Joseph, CT. Recently some of the edits that I made were removed and I am inquiring as to why that is?

I edit the page relating to updating new information relating to USJ. This is my first time editing a wiki page so I do apologize for breaking any of the rules.

Please reply as soon as you can.

Kindest, Val — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkrasniqi (talk • contribs) 16:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks and question from a new editor

Hello, ElKevgo,

I wanted to thank you for your your catch on the US Education page. I was doing a general citation hunt, and didn't look too close at Great Value Colleges aside from their "About Us" page. After your partial revert, I did more digging and found | this article that points out some methodology issues there. Good catch!

As a new editor, I have two questions, if you have the time to answer. I double checked WP:RS, and still have some thoughts, so I'm hoping you might be willing to share some wisdom. 1) How did you know so quickly that Great Value Colleges wasn't a reliable source? I know I missed the warning signs on my first pass, and my thoughts were treating it similarly to how travel guides are cited to verify features of places. Clearly, I was wrong in that. Is there a rule of thumb you use, which perhaps I can employ to avoid making work for editors like you in the future?

2) I was a little surprised the college board source got through. My concern there is that the college board has a vested interest in promoting AP classes. It also was the most reliable looking source I could find, but it means I'm not sure how WP:SPONSORED should be applied. Are my concerns re: the college board baseless?

In any case, thank you for your help earlier, and that goes double if you find time to help a newbie like me. Cheers! EducatedRedneck (talk) 13:59, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@EducatedRedneck: Those are both good questions and I'm happy to help!

The source that I removed is one that is owned by a company that exists to sale advertising and leads to institutions who are recruiting students. I have never done the legwork to figure out exactly which company it is - there are probably several - but I recognize the design of the website as one that they commonly use (the three dropdown menus on the side or at the top allowing you to search among their clients is a common giveaway).

The College Board source is okay for uncontroversial claims. You're right that they have a vested interest in supporting or promoting their own work and products so we cannot take everything they say at face value. And of course it would be much better to have a reference from another source that we hope is more objective. So I think your concerns have merit but if the claim that is being supported isn't one that is outlandish or overtly promotional then it's probably okay until someone can find a better source. ElKevbo (talk) 22:48, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@ElKevbo Thank you so much for the reply! Those are both very useful pieces of guidance; I'll make sure to use them! I suspect my own research, which has been strictly in peer-reviewed journals, has dulled my skills at assessing non-academic sources. I'll try to keep a better eye out in the future. And good point re: uncontroversial claims from the college board. That answers both my questions quite nicely; I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and help out a newbie.

Thank you again, and I hope you have a great weekend! EducatedRedneck (talk) 23:33, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

University of houston downtown page

As an allum of UH I am wondering why you undid my edit. There is a lot of history between the two schools, I can give you some of the history if you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.244.37.107 (talk) 09:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Academic Influence's inclusion/exclusion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_rankings

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This is the first time I'm using Wikipedia's talk feature to try to resolve an editing difference, so please bear with me. A few months ago, I happened to see that Academic Influence (AcademicInfluence.com) had a sub-entry in the Wikipedia article on college and university rankings. I was happy to see that someone had made this subentry because I regard Academic Influence as the most exciting development in college and university rankings of late. I therefore added a few additional references, only to find that the subentry was taken down because user Max Exon said that Academic Influence didn't do international or global rankings of universities. That claim was inaccurate since Academic Influence does indeed rank universities internationally, not only as such but also by discipline. So I reverted the subentry and added further citations indicating that Academic Influence does indeed to global rankings. Several weeks went by, and this time Max Exon removed the Academic Influence subentry on the charge of insufficient notability. On this point, I'm not sure how to resolve the matter. Ahrefs.com, which I use in my web business to asses the domain authority and reach of websites, shows the AcademicInfluence.com keeps pace with some of the other academic rankings organizations mentioned in the article. I was going to add to the article today that Academic Influence is unique among ranking sites (as far as I know) in also ranking academic persons by influence, which has led to many notable academics being interviewed with them, including several Nobel laureates (such as Paul Krugman) and some very big public intellectuals, such as Steven Pinker and Niall Ferguson (https://academicinfluence.com/interviews). At the very least, I think it could be said that AcademicInfluence.com is an up and coming ranking website with high aspirations to be a major and serious player in the college and university ranking world. So if they are not far enough along to merit inclusion in this article, what more do they need to do? A Google search will reveal that Forbes did two articles on them. A Google search will also show that schools like Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia link to them. Would a NYTimes, WSJ, and/or CHE article be the difference maker? Frankly, they take an interesting machine-learning approach to academic rankings, so just on that score, it seems that they merit inclusion. Pudor (talk) 15:47, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Pudor

I'm not sure we ought to be listing as many individual rankings at college and university rankings as we do, rather than just discussing the concept of rankings and the criticisms (note that there's also college and university rankings in the United States). But if we are to do that, I think you have the beginning of a decent case, Pudor, for including that one. The biggest factor for establishing WP:DUEWEIGHT on Wikipedia is coverage in reliable sources, so I'd be interested to see links to the coverage you mentioned. Links from universities themselves don't count for that much since they have an interest in promoting their ranking if they scored well. For Forbes, it matters a lot if it was written by a staff writer or a non-staff contributor, and if the latter, what their credentials are. I'd also be interested to hear from Max Exon. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:11, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't mind have some of that article focused on specific ranking systems. I do think that the current article does a terrible job demonstrating that many of the ranking systems that are discussed are indeed noteworthy. This is a topic that is the focus of scholarly work so that should be our primary source of information, especially in a topic like this that is rife with self-promotion by both ranking systems and the institutions that are highly ranked in them. ElKevbo (talk) 02:16, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

ElKevbo, any suggestions on which scholarly sources to use? In the popular press, Malcolm Gladwell's article (Gladwell, Malcolm (7 February 2011). "The Trouble with College Rankings". The New Yorker.) is the best I've come across, but Gladwell certainly isn't an education scholar, so I'm sure there are better options available. I'd love to see our coverage of this area improved—when people turn to Wikipedia for information on rankings, as they inevitably will, they should be presented with an informed, encyclopedic analysis of how they're viewed by experts, rather than just a parroting of the latest results.

On a related note, I just started this merge proposal, which may be of interest. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 02:57, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I would suggest that for the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_rankings, only relevant enough and not any ranking should be listed. Academic Influence is not influencial enough. Max Exon (talk) 07:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Max

It's kind of ironic that Max Exon sees Academic Influence as not influential enough when it's claim to fame, such as it is, consists in analyzing academic influence. So how can we resolve our difference? Max Exon has removed the Academic Influence subentry twice. I've re-listed it twice. I don't see us seeing eye to eye, so who gets to decide? By the way, the two Forbes articles were written by Mike Nietzel, a past president of Missouri State University (https://www.missouristate.edu/president/nietzel.htm#:~:text=Dr.-,Michael%20T.,University%20of%20Kentucky%2C%20including%20Provost). Also, I see that Malcolm Gladwell was favorably listed above. In that New Yorker piece cited, Gladwell extols Jeffrey Stake, a law professor at Indiana University, for taking on the USNews rankings. Jed Macosko, the president of Academic Influence (and a physics professor at Wake Forest), does an interview with Stake here: https://www.expensivity.com/unreasonable-sway-of-school-rankings. They both seem on the same page. I guess I wonder what Max Exon is looking for in terms of significance? Does any other ranking site have a YouTube channel with academic luminaries on it like this: https://www.youtube.com/c/AcademicInfluence/videos ? It bears pointing out again that Max Exon removed the Academic Influence entry not on the grounds of significance but of relevance, incorrectly claiming that the site did not do international rankings, which it does. Now it's insufficient significance. How does the significance question get decided? Pudor (talk) 15:58, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

@Pudor: Re who gets to decide, Wikipedia works based on a consensus process, so it's basically whichever side has the most support, but unfortunately for you the status quo (non-inclusion) is retained until discussion reaches consensus. ElKevbo or I could be the tiebreaker if you can convince either of us to take a more firm stance. What I'm looking for is evidence that Academic Influence meets the general notability guideline, since even though this isn't about a standalone page for Academic Influence, I'd want to see comparable evidence of significance to consider it due weight for its own section rather than just listed briefly in the "other rankings" section (which could be a compromise). To meet GNG, I'd need to see at least two links with significant coverage of Academic Influence in reliable, independent (meaning not affiliated with Academic Influence or plugging a school ranked by it) secondary sources. Best, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:24, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Thanks for this reply Sdkb. I don't mean to be contentious, and an apology is due to Max Exon: it makes sense that the benefit of the doubt would go toward exclusion rather than inclusion of novel material. In trying to make a case for Academic Influence's inclusion, let me therefore offer the following three links to substantial articles that address AcademicInfluence.com:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/03/07/academic-influence-ranks-the-best-community-colleges-nationally-and-by-state/?sh=2e97cc5a674b

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/01/27/new-ranking-system-lists-swarthmore-as-nations-1-liberal-arts-college/?sh=3e59df3240ee

https://www.expensivity.com/most-influential-economics-programs-and-economists/

If that's not enough, I can do some more searching. Pudor (talk) 19:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Pudor

@Pudor: I do think this is not enough, you should list direct argumentation about the ranking's relevance directly based on its indicators and the fiability of those instead of listing secondary/tertiary sources Max Exon (talk) 13:18, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Max

I strongly disagree with that. It's not our role to evaluate rankings and to judge their worthiness. We're an encyclopedia that neutrally documents topics of significance, and the way we determine significance is by coverage in reliable secondary sources. So that's really the only main criterion here that is supported by Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. IAR, I might give a tiny bit of preference to rankings that have a more novel methodology or a less subjective one, just in the interest of balance, but that's a far lesser concern than the coverage.

From the links provided so far, I lean very slightly toward inclusion, but I'd much prefer something stronger. Forbes contributors' work is not checked in an editorial review process, so it is not generally considered reliable. And I have concerns about Expensivity because it does not appear to have any established reputation and its authors seem to write under pen names rather than being willing to associate their identities with their work. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

https://academicinfluence.com/about/methodology

@Pudor: to answer your remark, there were 2 reasons for removing the section. The first one was that I thought it didn't list international rankings, you did disprove that. However the second issue is unrelated to this and I agree with Sdkb. Max Exon (talk) 13:14, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Max

@Sdkb: the ranking's mention of its methodology is obscure; it doesn't give any weights of its factors for instance https://academicinfluence.com/about/methodology Max Exon (talk) 13:42, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Max

@Sdkb: I guess Max and I are going to disagree. The methodology article that he cites seems meant to be quite general, without getting into the nuts and bolts of what Academic Influence is doing. More compelling, it seems to me, is the article about their influence ranking engine: https://academicinfluence.com/about/influence-ranking-engine. And then there's its white paper describing their "new philosophy of academic ranking," which makes the point that they are using influence as a master criterion, and thus NOT going to be weighting a lot of different criteria (see https://academicinfluence.com/about/new-ranking-philosophy). So it seems we still have no consensus, and if anything I'm now finding myself more in disagreement with Max Exon. The claim that I'm citing secondary sources, as though that counts against including Academic Influence as a subentry in the Wikipedia article in question, seems unreasonable. If the NYTimes writes an article on Academic Influence, it will be in the same vein as those cited. As for the nuts and bolts about their algorithm and machine learning approach, it's on their website (see the about pages, especially those I cited just now), and these to me seem compelling that they are doing something significant and novel in the academic ranking business. So how does this all get resolved?Pudor (talk) 21:37, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I am copying this to the article's Talk page so that other editors who edit that article can more easily read and participate in this discussion (instead just the handful of helpful colleagues who watch my User Talk page). ElKevbo (talk) 03:15, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Orphaned non-free image File:Greensboro College Seal.jpg

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Suresh Canagarajah's Entry was Removed

Hi ElKevbo, I was working on Suresh Canagarajah's wikipedia page, and I noticed that you removed the entire entry today. The reason was listed as "way, way too detailed (and likely COI issues, too)". I was wondering if you could provide further details.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PSU-ASC (talk • contribs) 23:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry but I don't have anything else to add. ElKevbo (talk) 00:30, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Baker College

This looks promotional. Ok, normally no big deal. But I came across this: The Nonprofit College That Spends More on Marketing Than Financial Aid Do you think I should mention it at one of the Education Wikiprojects? Doug Weller talk 16:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I think we should mention it here.

(Unsurprisingly, the edit history includes POV edits from EchoDeltaMarketing (indef blocked for spamming/making legal threats), so certainly an article to keep an eye on.) {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:13, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Looks okay. I'm not a fan of giving a single source that much prominence by placing it in the lede but I won't quibble over it in this instance. ElKevbo (talk) 23:19, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, if I were making it into a featured article, I don't think I'd structure it quite like I did there, but as a quick corrective, it seemed appropriate.

One thing I've noticed is that there's definitely some correlation between an institution's reputation and the quality of its article. I'd be interested to see what a true featured article for an institution like Baker would look like and how its sectioning would be weighted. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:59, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

It's also interesting how massive the pageview disparity is. Baker College has 35,000 students but gets 800 pageviews a month. Swarthmore College, at only 1600 students, gets 20x that, and a comparably sized elite university, say University of Pennsylvania (22,000 students), gets 100x that. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Interesting. I keep feeling there’s something we’re missing. Doug Weller talk 20:00, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Lists of (university or college name) people

Dear ElKevbo: Thank you.[2] However, there was a discussion before I created that guideline. Here is the link:[3]. Ber31 (talk) 13:03, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

By the way, you can provide your views on that discussion. :) Ber31 (talk) 13:08, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 13:13, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

University infobox

I just removed a dozen individuals from the IB for Cotabato State University, but there are still many remaining in |director= and |dean=. The template documentation says these are for "the dean" or "the director". If there are many for different departments, do you normally keep them all, remove them all, keep the first one, etc. MB 00:11, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

My understanding is that an infobox should only have essential information in it. In this instance, that would include the most senior officers of the organization. In the U.S. context, that is usually a president or chancellor and the chief academic officer, normally the provost, for a stand-alone college or university. The infobox isn't intended to list all senior officers of an institution (nor is an article, frankly). In my experience, those particular fields are typically used when the subject is not a stand-alone college or university but is a constituent of a larger organization so the senior officer of the subject has that title e.g., an article about a constituent college may include the dean of the college in the infobox as the dean is the college's most senior officer.

In that specific article, I would remove all of those directors and deans. Wikipedia articles, particularly infoboxes in articles, are not employee directories. ElKevbo (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Syracuse University

Dear User:ElKevbo, I hope this message finds you doing well. As you frequently edit the articles of academic institutions, please have a look at this edit. I have reverted them and added a reference. I'd be grateful if you can keep an eye on it. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 06:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Will do. The same thing has been happening at Boston University. ElKevbo (talk) 22:21, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

I think it behooves us to have good, clear documentation on what our standards are at {{Infobox university}}. What I previously wrote is Use if the institution has an official or strong de facto religious affiliation.

I'm not a huge fan of the Historically affiliated with the Spaghetti Monster Church construction, since it's very wordy for an infobox. For institutions that are clearly secular today but had strong religious ties in their past, I'd prefer Spaghetti Monster Church (historical), and for those that are officially secular but de facto still have ties, I'd prefer just plain Spaghetti Monster Church. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:34, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

An open discussion in a central location would be welcome. So far the removals have been done by one or more unregistered editors who refuse to communicate in any way.

If you have reliable sources that link an institution to His Noodlieness, you're welcome to add the information to the appropriate article. ElKevbo (talk) 22:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Community College Updates - SF

Dear ElKevbo,

Please forgive any ignorance on my part in updating the Wiki page for SF. I am an employee of the college and work as a digital content specialist, tasked with getting incorrect and incomplete information off of our social and digital platforms, including Wiki, 3rd party directories, etc. I have made several edits that you have contested. I initially tried to comply with your request that my content did not have suitable citations and put a lot of work into formatting and editing content to be relevant and similar to content seen in breadth on other Wiki pages for colleges of similar size. If you look at the local University in our area there are entire separate pages dedicated to athletics, academic programs, etc., so I do not understand the reasoning that the content provided was too detailed. I have had no need in previous positions to edit content in Wikipedia, so if I am doing something incorrectly I would appreciate gaining that knowledge and using the correct process. Please help me better understand what mistakes I am making or what incorrect information is listed to justify blocking the accurate and correct updates to the page. Again, please provide some additional guidance. 2600:8807:DF00:200:5157:CD5E:4829:750 (talk) 03:28, 26 January 2022 (UTC) A Gregory

Please begin by reviewing our policies about paid editing and conflicts of interest. Once you have complied with those policies, the next step would be to review our advice for college and university articles. You may also find it helpful to look at some of our best articles about colleges and article; Georgetown University and Pomona College are both Featured Articles about U.S. institutions so they might be particularly useful examples. ElKevbo (talk) 12:50, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

I have reviewed the policies on paid editing and conflicts of interest. I will from here forward create an account and include information on my profile page indicating my affiliation with the college as an editor. I was being honest and forthright in disclosing this information in the edits made and not trying to be deceptive in any way. I did review the Project Featured articles and many of them have content about athletics and other departments. I will clean up some of the content regarding the programs of service but in terms of a navigational structure I don't see that the subtitles that were added were out of line with the parameters set forth in the project. Editing of this article will evolve as additional resources are uncovered through the college library and learning commons as well as other archived information. For now the initial edits were intended to be a starting point that will be massaged as additional content comes to light. I will make every effort to look at the Pomona and Georgetown entries again and model a response similar to their structure. I do question how to include non-degree seeking programs. As a community college SF offers many non-degree seeking options to improve workforce development and community enrichment. These resources are equally as important to the mission of the college as the degree and certificate track programs. 162.248.67.5 (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2022 (UTC) A Gregory

I think that registering an account and complying with WP:PAID and WP:COI would be an excellent start. Many editors are okay with COI editors making straight-forward, uncontroversial edits to articles (e.g., updating outdated information that's already in the article) but for anything else I strongly recommend that you post suggestions and requests in the article's Talk page. If you don't get a timely response there, you can also drop a line at WT:UNI.

I also think that it would be perfectly appropriate to include some information about non-degree programs. I think that due weight and a neutral point of view may be slightly challenging - there is a difference between including critical information in an encyclopedia article and trying to use Wikipedia to promote the college - but they can be addressed perhaps with help and input from other editors. ElKevbo (talk) 22:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

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HBCU bomb threats

Greetings ELKevbo -- this is my maiden talk page voyage so sorry if I do something wrong. I am a new comer to editting on Wikipedia and I saw that you removed my recent changes to the HBCU entry. And I accept that it is newsy -- changing every day, as you can see from the 17 HBCUs that were closed just yesterday because of continuing bomb threats. And I think that in the sweep of HBCU history, the wave of bomb threats this year is probably pretty significant, esp since commentators are tying it to terror and hate crimes. Which given the history of race relations in the US would seem to make this a pretty poignant moment. So at what point would this be consider not news, but a significant data point in the history of HBCUs? Thanks and Cheers. ItsJW ItsJW (talk) 13:14, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@ItsJW: We try to take the long view in writing Wikipedia articles and ask questions such as "Is this just current news? Or is this of lasting importance" Sometimes we can't immediately answer those questions, of course, so material that is initially added to an article gets removed as it becomes clear that it's transient without lasting importance and significance for the subject.

Please feel free to open a discussion in the article's Talk page; you may get different opinions from other editors who may agree with you. ElKevbo (talk) 14:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@ItsJW: Looking at the edit, I think part of the reason it may have gotten reverted was just that it's too long, which raises due weight concerns in addition to the newsiness ones ElKevbo mentioned. If you'd like to try something different, I think something that would be very useful for the HBCU article is a more general statement about HBCUs being more likely to receive threats. If you can find a source saying "on average, HBCUs receive X times more bomb threats than comparable non-HBCUs," definitely feel free to add it. Thanks for your contributions and for coming here to discuss, and I hope you stick around to make more! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:26, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@ELKevo @ Sdkb: Oaky got it. Thanks for the guidance.ItsJW (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

IPs edit wars

Hi, IP (93.112.161.51) randomly adding information in Bachelor of Technology, Bachelor of Computing, & Bachelor of Information Technology without putting any sources whatsoever. User can see the edit summaries still adamant in adding all unsourced information's. God knows from where he's getting those info's and adding in these articles. Please look into these articles. I already reverted two of his edits. I think he will again add all those info's. Thanks--60.243.176.128 (talk) 06:10, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi, please inform WP:ANI about IP (93.112.161.51), IP is making disruptive editing. Again he has made disruptive editing in Bachelor of Engineering and Bachelor of Technology articles adding all unsourced information's. Thanks--115.98.212.113 (talk) 04:54, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi @ElKevbo: Please inform WP:ANI against IP (87.109.75.63), he has again added info's randomly without providing any source whatsoever. He tried to revert your edits in Bachelor of Technology and also added info's in Bachelor of Engineering. I already reverted two of his edits. Kindly inform WP:ANI to block such IPs immediately. Thanks--115.98.225.121 (talk) 04:30, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

You are welcome to raise this issue in the articles' Talk pages, the other editor's Talk page(s), or other venues. ElKevbo (talk) 05:34, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Haverford College people

My comment on your proposed slimming of the list of Haverford College people is a bit different from those posted above regarding particular grads of Calumet, etc. The rules at WP:LISTPEOPLE, which you cited as justification for your extensive edit, do not require that the listed person have their own article, as you seem to suggest. For example, as stated in that part of the style guide, the person can be the principal human actor behind a topic that has an article. Steven Pico is an example of this. Others you would drop seem at least as notable in their respective fields as dozens of individuals who have their own Wiki page for no good reason at all, other than ego (or energetic friends or relatives), as we all know. Alumni Jessica Berson, Charles Lawrence and Robert Sataloff strike me as examples of that, for which reliable sources are given in each case. Certainly, they are not listed just because they happen to be alums, or even because they are "notable" as compared with most other alums of the same college; their accomplishments would warrant at least a short Wiki article that would surely not be subject to rapid deletion if someone were to go to the trouble of creating one. I did not understand this list, nor would most readers, I think, as an index of Haverford grads who happen to have their own WIki pages. (Some of those who do have a page strike me as far from generally notable, TBH.) Would you concede retention of the folks that I have mentioned and others of objectively comparable achievement and notability? PDGPA (talk) 03:55, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm going to copy this to the article's Talk page and respond there. ElKevbo (talk) 05:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Calumet College of St. Joseph

Mr. Guidry:

I am a 1991 graduate of Calumet College with a B.A. Criminal Justice, Cum Laude 3.67/4.0. You have removed my name from the list of Notable Alumni which I feel should not have been done and hopefully you will feel the same way after you read about my accomplishments.

I am 1 of only 37 Board Certified as Civil Trial Specialist by the National Board of Trial Advocacy in the State of Indiana which required testing, experience and documentation of excellence in the legal profession. This board certification is recognized by the State of Indiana which allows me to state to the public that I am a specialist in the area of civil trials. Again, only 37 attorneys in the State of Indiana can make such a statement. If you are not board certified in an area of the law and you state that you specialize or are a specialist in that area of law, that attorney can be subjected to discipline by the Disciplinary Commission which is an agency of the Indiana Supreme Court that is responsible for investigating and prosecuting claims of misconduct against lawyers licensed to practice law in Indiana. It is indeed a valued accomplishment to become a board certified attorney.

As for recognition by Calumet College, I have received the Brother Van Hagel Award as an outstanding alumnus in 2013, the Thurgood Marshall Award for outstanding professional achievement from the CJS Club of Calumet College of St. Joseph in 2005 and I was selected as the “Outstanding Criminal Justice Graduate" in 1991 by the Criminal Justice Club at Calumet College. Note, Eddie Melton and Michael Puente who are on the Notable Alumni list have also been recognized by Calumet College by receiving the Brother Van Hagel Award after I received that very same award.

As for further recognition by my peers, I have been elected and reelected to serve a four year terms on the Lake County Judicial Nominating Commission. This commission interviews lawyers for judicial openings and submits 3 names to the governor for the State of Indiana who make the final selection for the open position. Further, My Martindale-Hubbell® rating which is peer based is AV which is the highest rating that an attorney can achieve. I have been selected as a member of Best Lawyers In America – Personal Injury Litigation Plaintiffs as well as Indiana Super Lawyers which are both peer selections based on several factors including reputation for excellence in the legal community. I am also a member of the Million Dollar Advocates Forum based upon achieving a million dollar jury verdict. I have been a legal commentator for WJOB 1230 am since 2004 as well as being a licensed probation officer for the Hammond City Court. I have also been been selected to serve on the Indiana Trial Lawyers Board of Directors which I continue to do to this date.

I am not only a graduate of Calumet College, but I also taught law classes there for 18 years. I currently serve on the Board of Directors for the college. I am admitted to practice of law in the States of Indiana & Illinois since 1995 as well as being admitted to practice before the Indiana Supreme Court, United States District Court for both the Northern and Southern Districts of Indiana, Illinois Supreme Court, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois United States Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit and the Supreme Court of the United States.

In conclusion, I think that I am a “Notable Alumni” of Calumet College of St. Joseph. I have been recognized by Calumet College as a Notable Alumni when they gave me the Brother Van Hagel Award as an outstanding alumnus in 2013. This is a small college and I am proud of my achievements based in large part on the education that I received from Calumet College. I am have been and continue to be very involved with the school which includes raising money and putting Calumet College on advertising for my law firm putting out to the community that I am a 1991 graduate of the school and a true success story which I hope draws students to the college. Without successful alumni, how do we hope to draw students to Calumet College of St. Joseph. I would hope that you would reconsider my removal from the list. Further, if you feel that listing should be adjusted based upon the above accomplishments, I would welcome that as well. David Gladish

≈≈≈≈

Signing so the bot archives this thread. ElKevbo (talk) 22:17, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Page for University of Louisiana

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

https://louisiana.edu/about-us/media/proper-use-universitys-name

Please do not use “ULL” to refer to the University of Louisiana. Reference the attached link. Cjm8461 (talk) 23:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Cjm8461: The university doesn't control Wikipedia or get to dictate to Wikipedia editors how to edit articles. You are welcome to reopen this discussion in the article's Talk page to see if there is a new/changed consensus among editors.

Additionally, if you have a relationship with the university then you should disclose it; if you are being compensated by the university for editing Wikipedia, you are required to disclose that fact. ElKevbo (talk) 23:50, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

So are you being compensated or have a relationship with a university or other entity that would have an interest in not referring to the said university by their proper name? You say “ The university doesn't control Wikipedia or get to dictate to Wikipedia editors how to edit articles.” With that statement being said, I must ask ‘If the university does not have the right to dictate what they are called, then who does?’ Cjm8461 (talk) 00:10, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

We follow the guidance provided by reliable sources. ElKevbo (talk) 00:45, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

What reliable sources were used by Wikipedia to decide on a specific name for this university? Please provide references. Cjm8461 (talk) 03:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Let's keep the discussion civil and centralized to the article's Talk page. ElKevbo (talk) 03:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why did you close the discussion? Cjm8461 (talk) 12:45, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

We don't need to have the same discussion in two different places. ElKevbo (talk) 13:18, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Cjm8461, If I were you I would let this go. Your editing pattern suggests you have a COI, and possibly abusing multiple accounts. Not saying that's the case, but again I would let this go. Spf121188 (talk) 13:35, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

No, I will not let it go. If i were you I would change the name to the proper terminology that the said university wants. Cjm8461 (talk) 15:09, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Do not post on my User Talk page again. ElKevbo (talk) 22:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

ElKevbo, sorry for prompting that. I usually try to reason with users like this one, but as you can tell, this one is a lost cause. Spf121188 (talk) 16:44, 8 February 2022 (UTC)