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NPR Newsletter No.14 21 October 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months.

Hello Elmidae, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

Backlog

As of 21 October 2018, there are 3650 unreviewed articles and the backlog now stretches back 51 days.

Community Wishlist Proposal

• There is currently an ongoing discussion regarding the drafting of a Community Wishlist Proposal for the purpose of requesting bug fixes and missing/useful features to be added to the New Page Feed and Curation Toolbar.
• Please join the conversation as we only have until 29 October to draft this proposal!

Project updates

• ORES predictions are now built-in to the feed. These automatically predict the class of an article as well as whether it may be spam, vandalism, or an attack page, and can be filtered by these criteria now allowing reviewers to better target articles that they prefer to review.
• There are now tools being tested to automatically detect copyright violations in the feed. This detector may not be accurate all the time, though, so it shouldn't be relied on 100% and will only start working on new revisions to pages, not older pages in the backlog.

New scripts

• User:Enterprisey/cv-revdel.js^(info) — A new script created for quickly placing {{copyvio-revdel}} on a page.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 20:49, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Shawn Wasabi

On this article, per WP:ABOUTSELF, I believe that Shawn Wasabi's tweet about his alias ([1]) can be used as a source. He uploaded the track "Mac n' Cheese" under the "sssshawnnnn" alias in January 2014 ([2]). Two months later, he uploaded the track "Uncool Lunch Tables" under the "Shawn Wasabi" alias, saying: "I changed my alias to Shawn Wasabi just recently! Most of you probably know me as sssshawnnnn, but I and most other people found it difficult trying to remember how to spell that" ([3]). Why do you think it is nonsense? I still don't get it.

Please stop calling me "pretentious twit". Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. Thank you. 153.202.229.243 (talk) 14:42, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, that's actually reasonable. Just bombing that tweet in there looked very much like the typical fanboi move of plastering some idol's every jocular utterance into an article; this background makes sense. - Serving me with the kind of template you used does come over as a pretentious twit move, so please refrain from that. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 17:04, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Regardless of whether you agree with Vurrath (and you clearly don't, and I'm not going to pick through the talk page to find out who's right), there's no excuse for being rude in your edit summaries like that (e.g., 'wild waffle'). I've suppressed that summary; please don't do that sort of thing again. DS (talk) 15:03, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

I'll politely paraphrase as "inventive and idiosyncratic contribution of possibly doubtful usefulness and limited legibility" next time. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 17:06, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Polite paraphrasing is all I ask. He's sincerely trying to help. He came on the IRC help channel asking what could be done about this situation, and expressly stated that he's open to requests for clarity and editing. DS (talk) 21:26, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Well colour me amazed. That must be the first case ever of someone whose writing is convoluted to the point of cryptography and who is unable to just... use fewer words, maybe? I'll be interested to see how that goes. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:39, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Unable to Complete Article Nominations

Unable to complete AfD for the following: "U Mad", "The Glory", "Drunk and Hot Girls", "RoboCop (song)", "Say You Will"

The rest can be merged into main articles for respective albums: "Coldest Winter", "The Bounce", "Down and Out", "Nobody, "Spaceship (Kanye West song)", "Two Words"

Others such "Never Let Me Down" are currently up for deletion or awaiting deletion/redirects. Many of these articles, such as "Drunk and Hot Girls", were redirected but user involved has removed redirects time and again with the proposition that any such article should be put up for AfD. Potentially a COI in place.

Apologies for any and all past incomplete or malformed AfDs. For background info, refer to comments made on User talk page

Replied on your talk page. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 08:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Think it'd be more formal under a registered name. The rationales can be found in their talk pages. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.97.61 (talk) 18:19, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

64.26.97.61, I must ask you to please provide me with a reasoned nomination statement for each if you want this done - I'm not going to put them together myself, and one can't ask commenters at AfD to go digging through editor user pages for scattered arguments. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:22, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Sure thing.

AfD

"The Glory" Contains unreliable source(s), does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Already explained at length within Graduation album article.

"RoboCop" Contains unreliable source(s), original research, does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart.

"Drunk and Hot Girls" Contains unreliable source(s), does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Already explained at length within Graduation album article.

"Coldest Winter" Contains original research, does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Content can be incorporated into 808s & Heartbreak article, where its hardly mentioned.

"Say You Will" Contains unreliable source(s), does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Also contains original research. Similar to Bad News, the information regarding live performance at Hollywood Bowl can be used in a separate article designated for the concert. Considering the amount of coverage the concert seemed to have received, and reviews from published by verifiable sources that have individuals have taken the time to gathered here along with the fact that its has its own page at Wiki Commons, quite odd the concert (which I think meets notability standards) doesn't have a Wikipedia article.

Merge

"Spaceship" Contains unreliable source(s), does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Content can be incorporated into The College Dropout article.

"Two Words" Contains unreliable source(s), does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Content can incorporated into The College Dropout article, where the song is barely mentioned.

"Nobody" While released as a single, it does not meet WP:NSONG, did not chart. Can be redirected into album.

Additional:

Experimental hip hop Misleading article almost completely devoid of sources. The primary basis for the article is an AllMusic entry describing a different subgenre.

Acoustic hip hop Lacking in verifiable sources to establish notability or credibility.

Hope this suffices. Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.97.61 (talk) 16:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

All right, sorted. Good luck. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

misinterpreting sources

Hi Elmidae: since you now have page reviewer rights, please have a short look at this diff https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rwindi&curid=58963237&diff=867376652&oldid=867374376. I came across this page by chance and checked the ref'ed source. I think you are aware that it’s not the first incident that these editors misinterpret a source, just a very recent one. What to do? Cheers -- BhagyaMani (talk) 09:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani: I don't have any special authority as a New page Reviewer, just a few extra tools :) Apart from that, you are certainly right - this statement based on this source is pure WP:SYNTHESIS and has no business being there. In fact, any connections of the article to lions of whatever flavour appears very tenuous. I have removed the image and "See also" entries. - The editor has shown rather bad morals in their sourcing so far. If they don't improve, I guess the usual approach applies, however arduous: collect instances and then drop the lot into an AN/I action if critical mass reached. I can't tell whether they already are at that point. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:50, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Another one, see :

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rufiji_Delta&type=revision&diff=867101043&oldid=866662929 -- BhagyaMani (talk) 11:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Please have a look at a message I received: User_talk:BhagyaMani#November_2018 -- BhagyaMani (talk) 18:31, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Re malign other editors : In your looong career as wikipedian, did you ever experience such a behaviour? Sometimes I look at the screen in disbelief, sometimes lolling, and feel like looking at a skit unfolding on stage -- BhagyaMani (talk) 12:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

---

I think this is ok to redirect the 'Dereck and Beverly Joubert' page to Eye of the Leopard. Before, it contained a redirect to 'Tiger versus lion', which imo was very unappropriate. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 14:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

African bush elephants

I don't have sources to the contrary, but how do you know if that book is valid source. We only need sources observed by human eyes. --Manwë986 (talk) 15:51, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

...the fact that someone provided that book as a source indicates that they read it. Absent evidence to the contrary, you have no base to claim otherwise. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

But the book did not even have the records or reports that the lions can kill adult elephants. The author only stated the lion pride capable of taking down full-grown elephants, but he did not include the records or sightings that prove it. --Manwë986 (talk) 16:17, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

...which you don't know because you don't have access to the book... right? --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:25, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I looked into the book through the reference, all I see are only sentences of "In scenes that must resemble the cave lion attacks on mammoths are thousands of years ago" and "The lion pride are capable of taking down full-grown elephants ". Just these. But there are no records or reports of sightings that prove it. Access the book by yourself and see if there are records or reports of sightings which prove that sentence of "lions killing adult elephants" is relevant. --Manwë986 (talk) 16:34, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I have done so. We are seeing as fraction of the text; without access to the hardcopy there's no telling what else is in that section. Thus you have no basis for your claim that the author provides no further details. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Brandner Kaspar

Hi, you reverted my change from Tegernsee town to lake. Just for your information, it was actually my fault. Yesterday I've only took a quick look into the German article Brandner Kaspar where the lake is linked, not the town. However, today I looked at the original text; it may be translated as "The Brandner Kaspar was a locksmith and owned a small house near [the town] Tegernsee, nicely high up at the Alpbach at the route to the Schliersee." So he was not living directly in the town, but writing "a Tegernsee [town] locksmith" is ok and better than "a Tegernsee [lake] locksmith".

Thank you --Cyfal (talk) 21:51, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.15 16 November 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months.

Hello Elmidae,

Community Wishlist Survey – NPP needs you – Vote NOW

• Community Wishlist Voting takes place 16 to 30 November for the Page Curation and New Pages Feed improvements, and other software requests. The NPP community is hoping for a good turnout in support of the requests to Santa for the tools we need. This is very important as we have been asking the Foundation for these upgrades for 4 years.

If this proposal does not make it into the top ten, it is likely that the tools will be given no support at all for the foreseeable future. So please put in a vote today.

We are counting on significant support not only from our own ranks, but from everyone who is concerned with maintaining a Wikipedia that is free of vandalism, promotion, flagrant financial exploitation and other pollution.

With all 650 reviewers voting for these urgently needed improvements, our requests would be unlikely to fail. See also The Signpost Special report: 'NPP: This could be heaven or this could be hell for new users – and for the reviewers', and if you are not sure what the wish list is all about, take a sneak peek at an article in this month's upcoming issue of The Signpost which unfortunately due to staff holidays and an impending US holiday will probably not be published until after voting has closed.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)}18:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Elmidae. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Notification

Since Vurrath didn't do the required notification, I figured I'd let you know there's a thread (though I can't discern what it actually says) about you at ANI. Praxidicae (talk) 15:34, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Cheers - it's highy unlikely that niceties like notifications would have featured with this editor, so I appreciate the heads-up :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Was that a complaint or a drive-by conceptual art project. Only history will tell. Simonm223 (talk) 15:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Dangerous restart

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

Well, as I said - senior moment. I'm allowed one per quarter... |p --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Checks and balances

Do not turn existing redirects with large numbers of incoming links into disambiguation pages without discussion. Definitely do not do this to create a WP:TWODABS page. See also WP:PRIMARY TOPIC; WP:DIFFCAPS. bd2412 T 04:48, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

BD2412 - fair point, that probably produced more problems than it solved. So - (section) hatnote? Or no linkage at all? --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

A hatnote would be appropriate, yes. bd2412 T 12:22, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Health in Mongolia

This is the anchor article for its own category. How do you think we can improve its categorisation?Rathfelder (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

@Rathfelder: Is there no category that contains all these "Health in..." articles? Something like that is what I would have expected there. Also, "Healthcare by country"? Quite a number come to mind, actually. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:46, 21 November 2018 (UTC) (gotta run, back in 3h)

Indeed there is - Category:Health by country, but its a diffusing category. The individual articles shouldn't be in it. I dont think it makes sense to put these articles into Healthcare by country. that is a subcat of Category:Health by countryRathfelder (talk) 11:04, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

@Rathfelder:: I see - one of these "contains only subcategories" categories. No doubt you have the better overview here. I've de-tagged. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:10, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm MB. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Gaoligong forest hedgehog, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

MB 03:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dogs: Their Fossil Relatives and Evolutionary History, (if only more nominators were as nice, thanks:))

Coolabahapple (talk) 07:26, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

2019 IFAF World Championships

I am confused as to why the redirect should be there if it prevents the growth of the article, all previous IFAF world championships have their own page.

-WeiszGypsy305 November 24, 2018 — Preceding unsigned comment added by WeiszGypsy305 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

WeiszGypsy305: they have a page once there is actual material to put on it. Luckily Quidster4040 appears to have picked up the ball where you dropped it, and the resulting page is actually something that can stay in mainspace. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:02, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Be Kind

I will keep editing my page, because that is my homework! Thank you for your commons, I will keep trying to improve that. However, I need that page show up whenever my teacher search that. Not the NCED3 one! Please! Thank you for your cooperation! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JieLin627812 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

replied on your talk page. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Evaluation of Student Articles

Hello Elmidae, Thank you for the work you do for Wikipedia. I appreciate how you helped my student salvage her text after the AfD lead to the deletion of her work. I was, however, rather frustrated to read the text of your original statement nominating the article for deletion. I have dedicated my life to encouraging young people, especially those from minority groups and disadvantaged backgrounds, to believe they can succeed in scientific fields. If I had received the comment you started the AfD with as a student it would probably have convinced me that academia was not the place for me to be (when in fact it is exactly where I should be). I am hoping against hope that this experience won't drive this particular student out of the sciences. Please do provide constructive criticism but please choose your words to be constructive and not hurtful. Wikipedia is not just about communicating facts but also about mentoring community members and our society's future leaders, which requires both encouragement and kind criticism. Thanks! Laurakreed (talk) 15:36, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Laurakreed, I am sorry if this has had a discouraging effect on the student. I admit that with doing such quality checks and AfD nominations rather frequently, I have only a limited capacity for formulations that are guaranteed to hurt noone's feeling. The usual bare-bones version, much more commonly seen, would actually have been something like "Duplicative, fails WP:NOTESSAY. Over and out." Material does get judged harshly here, but we do our best not to extend that to the people, and I don't think I have done it here.

Not to give the impression that I'm trying to turn the tables, but you might want to communicate to your students something more about the structural requirements that this particular article has already run afoul of. I have noticed that a number of students in the course are poised to have the exact same experience when they go ahead and move their material into mainspace. I have left some notes for one of them (User_talk:Kaelengolden/sandbox#Comments_on_suitability_as_an_article) but you might want to spread that a little wider. Cheers --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:37, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion and giving Kaelengolden the concrete and constructive feedback that should help him. I will reemphasize your message about style with them. Laurakreed (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

WP:Civil

Put a cork in it. Lighten up. We are all volunteers here.. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:08, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

As such we also rely on people not making out voluntary work harder by mechanically hitting the revert button because some box isn't ticked. - All right, I've become a bit stressed out with these student articles... have a peaceful weekend :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:13, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

What we've got here is failure to communicate. We can get along. Happy holidays. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

AfD

Please see Talk:Mirwais Azizi. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:26, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak: thanks for the heads-up. I saw this pop up again in the NPP queue and actually figured I'd give it a miss this time round. Businessman notability is not my strong suite (mostly because I actively detest the kind of sources that tend to turn up by the cartload in paid-for bios, which makes for bad evaluation). If an AfD eventuates I'll look it into it again, but I'll not initiate it. Cheers :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:34, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:NPA

Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. This [4] is uncalled for ♟♙ (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

EnPassant - I reserve the right of calling you on pointless and ill-considered contributions that show nothing but that you have not actually considered or understood the issue under discussion (NB, that neither notability or sourcing where ever under any criticism here, and we are talking about problems of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH). Contentious AfDs are difficult enough without such red herrings. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

File:Something of Myself 1st edition cover.jpg

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NPR Newsletter No.16 15 December 2018

Hello Elmidae,

Reviewer of the Year

This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to Onel5969. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554 reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285 edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.

Thanks are also extended for their work to JTtheOG (15,059 reviews), Boleyn (12,760 reviews), Cwmhiraeth (9,001 reviews), Semmendinger (8,440 reviews), PRehse (8,092 reviews), Arthistorian1977 (5,306 reviews), Abishe (4,153 reviews), Barkeep49 (4,016 reviews), and Elmidae (3,615 reviews).
Cwmhiraeth, Semmendinger, Barkeep49, and Elmidae have been New Page Reviewers for less than a year — Barkeep49 for only seven months, while Boleyn, with an edit count of 250,000 since she joined Wikipedia in 2008, has been a bastion of New Page Patrol for many years.

See also the list of top 100 reviewers.

Less good news, and an appeal for some help

The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640 holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.

Really good news - NPR wins the Community Wishlist Survey 2019

At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3 December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.

Training video

Due to a number of changes having been made to the feed since this three-minute video was created, we have been asked by the WMF for feedback on the video with a view to getting it brought up to date to reflect the new features of the system. Please leave your comments here, particularly mentioning how helpful you find it for new reviewers.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Harlequin Rasbora.

You have removed my comment concerning the Black Harlequin. A quick net search will quickly find videos of them in peoples tanks. They are available from time to time in many aquatic retailers. I think I know a little about Harlequins as I have kept them on and off for over 50 years and regard myself as a cyprinid specialist. I would however agree that the comment may be better suited to the description section, but generally regard that as the description of the wild fish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrianxw (talk • contribs) 13:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Adrianxw - the problem is that you did not provide a reliable source that allows readers to verify the statement (and no, a video won't do). If you can rustle up an article, website (non-forum) text etc. that describes this, feel free to re-add. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:58, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

I can't be bothered to jump through hoops in an attempt to help other people. The fish are a commercial product, I very much doubt there are "acceptable" articles about them, perhaps a quick mention in Practical Fishkeeping or Tropical Fish Hobbyist, but why would there be? Forget it, I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrianxw (talk • contribs) 08:06, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

@Adrianxw: well, them's the breaks here - our charter is to summarize information already published in reliable sources, not collect all possible information on any subject. There's plenty of things that experts know to be "true" (myself included, in my discipline) but that can't be part of a WP article because the rest of the world has not seen fit to write about it in sufficient depth. Verifiability for the reader is required. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 08:14, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Justin Klosky

Hi Elmidae, I write regarding one of my articles you tagged for deletion. What do you want me to improve on the article to prevent it from being deleted. The name of the article is Justin Klosky, please I need your response and assistance too Ziggy 2milli (talk) 12:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

As is stated in the AfD nomination, there is a complete absence of independent, reliable sources that cover the subject in depth. Instead you have piled up a dozen random articles that drop his name somewhere or just let him waffle. Neither demonstrates notability. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:55, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Most of the references are reliable sources they discussed about him and his ocd experience firm. They recognize him as actor too please take out time to go through the references — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ziggy 2milli (talk • contribs) 16:53, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Best wishes for this holiday season! Thank you for your Wiki contributions in 2018. May 2019 be prosperous and joyful. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:54, 22 December 2018 (UTC) Noël ~ καλά Χριστούγεννα ~ З Калядамі ~ חנוכה שמח ~ Gott nytt år!

Notice

Hello! You can check out my reply at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Freak Me (Ciara song). AfD as itself is not a problem at all and is a smart way to try and resolve things around. It is just that I feel the full deletion would solve this much better. This AfD is just going in an obvious path, redirect again like it was used to be, so that is my question here. It's not like there would be a big loss of content here and would prevent IP users to meddle with the article (as they cannot create articles). Jovanmilic97 (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Hello wiki friend, Having a problem with Oligarchy page. Adding cite with URL and another with a book cite. The URL is causing problems. Can you help me out ? I've tried with no success. Thank you!!! Researchdata99 (talk) 00:10, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi Researchdata99, the problem was that in your last edit you inserted your entire text into an existing reference (Winter) rather than behind it; your own references are well-formed. - However, I must agree with the editor who has reverted that entire insertion. The lede of this article is intended to summarize the contents, not add new material; actually it shouldn't talk about Greek oligarchy at all, since that isn't treated in the text body. In any case, details about Philippides would probably not be very well located here. Cheers --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 08:49, 29 December 2018 (UTC)