Evildoer187

Hello... I believe there's been a misunderstanding. :-/

I'm sorry, there's been a misunderstanding... You were talking of identity and cultural heritage, and the fact that the Ashkenazis (and the proto Ashkenazis) throughout the last 2,000 years, have held the Torah in high regard, and in their Israelite cultural and linguistic heritage, I'm deeply sorry, I have misinterpreted your argument, yes, it's true that the cultural and linguistic heritage among Ashkenazis is with the Israelites, I'm again deeply sorry of the misunderstanding, yes I agree that the stuff about the genetic origins needs to be put in the "genetic studies on Jews" article. Again, I'm deeply sorry. :-( -Guy 84.111.196.56 (talk) 14:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Response

Regarding your post on my talk page, Judaism being a religion (and perhaps culture) but not ethnicity/race isn't my personal opinion. Historian John Weiss explains this in his book Ideology of Death: Why the Holocaust Happened in Germany. He states "The Nazis had researchers working through the war analyzing Jewish blood to try to see what was Jewish about it," and "They were determined to find something different". In the end, they found nothing different. As a matter of fact, no religion is an ethnicity or race. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 06:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Did you look at the link I gave you? In fact, did you look at this article Jews (i.e. "nation and ethnoreligious group")? Have you ever asked yourself why the Jewish descent category exists in the first place, as opposed to Christianity and Islam?

Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Christianity and Islam are religious groups. There is a difference.Evildoer187 (talk) 17:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

It's not that I didn't look at pages you linked. Wikipedia pages, simply put, can't be used as references for claims. If the creators of the categories thought they were an ethnic group, they were misinformed- people of various ethnicities and heritages celebrate Judaism, many of which have no common ethnic/racial backgrounds at all. Same goes for all other religions. My reference is the book mentioned above. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 02:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

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CfD nomination of Category:Holy Land during Byzantine rule

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CfD nomination of Category:1917 in the Palestinian territories

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3-Revert Warning

Please be aware that you are about to run afoul of the 3-Revert rule if you again revert my edit on Category:Jewish American culture, which would result in your being blocked from editing. I assure you that there is NO support for your views on this issue among other editors. Cgingold (talk) 00:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't know who that IP address was, but it wasn't me. The first IP was me, because I forgot to log in. Second, I do have support for my views. We've discussed this issue at length before, and it ended in a stalemate.Evildoer187 (talk) 00:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

It would also appear that you have a limited understanding of ethnicity. Jews became a people in what is now the Levant, and maintained their identity and culture as Jews despite prolonged sojourn in Europe and other areas (hence the Middle Eastern categories). Logically, the only way to lose that classification would be to completely forfeit your Jewish identity and assimilate. These are facts. If a Pakistani immigrant moves to England, and then to the United States, is he no longer Pakistani? Is he "just a Brit" now? Or is there some statute of limitations I am unaware of?Evildoer187 (talk) 00:13, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Trust me, I am thoroughly familiar with Jewish history. You are entirely welcome to put specific sub-cats for people with more recent descent (eg. Iranian, Syrian) into Category:Middle Eastern American culture, but not the entire category. P.S. - Don't try to hide behind anon. IPs -- it's very easy to confirm that these were all your edits. Cgingold (talk) 00:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

There's no statute of limitations on descent. If there is, you'll have to point out where it starts and ends, and provide a credible source for it. Otherwise, your revert is not justified. And I can guarantee you that the last revert was not mine. You can do an IP check if you want. Evildoer187 (talk) 00:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

By this sort of logic, every single culture/ethnicity category on Wikipedia should be placed under the umbrella categories for African culture/ethnicity, because they ALL originated in Africa. Do you not see how ludicrous that would be?? Just because Jewish history traces back to what is now called the "Middle East" -- and of course, there was no such term at the time -- does not mean that it is somehow appropriate to use that as a basis for categorization of current/modern cultures. Again, I assure you that the vast, overwhelming majority of Wiki editors are in agreement with what I am telling you. In all sincerity, please save yourself and me a lot of bother and don't continue to push this fringe view. It is a complete waste of your time and mine. Cgingold (talk) 01:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

That's an invalid comparison, and also a strawman. Do you know of any ethnic groups/tribes outside of Africa who define themselves as "exiled Africans", speak an African language, celebrate holidays originating in Africa, practice a religion emphasizing spiritual ties to Africa, and trace most of their genetic heritage specifically to Africa, among other examples, who are not defined as African by ethnicity? Unless you do, then it's not comparable to the Jews, who are by definition a Semitic people of the Middle/Near East. None of what I have said is WP:FRINGE, unless you believe this is fringe (http://indigenouspeoples.nl/indigenous-peoples/definition-indigenous).

Your "assurances" are pretty much meaningless, especially in light of previous controversies on this topic proving the opposite. I've had this discussion before, and we were unable to achieve consensus in either direction. By removing the categories, you violated consensus on this topic.Evildoer187 (talk) 01:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Evildoer all human beings trace their genetic ancestry to East Africa, we all share a common ancestry in East Africa less than 200,000 years ago, Ashkenazis simply trace their "recent" (going from a couple of hundred of years to so called deep ancestry thousands of years back) genetic ancestry both to Europe and the Middle East, the average native European ancestry among AJs is 35-55% according to a 2013 study, so some of them are mainly genetically European while others are mainly genetically Middle Eastern, and you can see it, some Ashkenazis look East Med while others look Northern European, and of course there are many diverse looks among Ashkenazis inbetween the 2 extremes I mentioned. As for the Jewish religion, culture and holy language I absolutely agree that they're Middle Eastern/Semitic in origin, that's a no brainer IMO, although Yiddish is mainly Indo European Germanic, but that was the day to day language, the holy language, Hebrew is indeed Afro-Asiatic Semitic.

P.S much of the Ashkenazi culture originated/developed in Central/Eastern Europe rather than the Middle East Guy355 (talk) 14:19, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

1RR violation

My edits were more than 24 hours apart so they did not violate 1RR. If this is mysterious to you, WP:EDITWAR might help (but it may not since it is badly written). In a nutshell, we may only perform one revert in any 24-hour period. Zero^talk 11:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You should also read WP:BRD which describes the (voluntary) process by which the Middle East section of Wikipedia is edited. You made the initial change, I reverted you, then the discussion starts. You don't make a change and expect it to stay until it is discussed. Onus is on the one who wants to include something to justify its inclusion. Zero^talk 12:02, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

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ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you..Nishidani (talk) 17:14, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

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Topic ban

I am here to inform you of a topic ban enacted on you via discussion at WP:ANI and is listed at WP:RESTRICT. The text from the closing admin is as follows.

"By the consensus of the Wikipedia community, Evildoer187 is topic-banned from articles dealing with Judaism. The topic ban is indefinite, however if the editor's editing is issueless after six months an appeal might well be profitable. -The Bushranger (talk · contribs) "

Thanks, TheMesquito^buzz 07:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Ahhh, my greatest apologies, I got distracted halfway through working and forgot to notify you here. Thanks to TheMesquito for fixing that and a {{trout}} to myself. This is the consensus from the discussion, yes. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:04, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Adoption

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Request for comment

As someone who has edited the article Asian American this year, I am seeking your input on a proposed change to remove a reference to epicanthic eyefolds. This topic has prompted discussion in 2009, 2010 and most recently in 2013.

There's a fine line between being WP:BOLD and subverting WP:CONSENSUS. Given the history of this topic, I'm hoping that a robust discussion, for the record, would improve the article whether this reference stays or goes. Ishu (talk) 13:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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FYI

Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_East_category_Rfc. Debresser (talk) 13:24, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

FYI

Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_East_category_Rfc. Debresser (talk) 13:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

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Request for mediation rejected

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Asian 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge and Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 02:01, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Ashkenazi Jews

Why are you removing the European categories from this page, Category:Ashkenazi Jewish culture in the United States. Ashkenazi Jews and Ashkenazi Judaism, as an ethnicity and as a minhag, originated in Europe. Ashkenaz literally refers to Germany. I suppose that a convert to Judaism could be Ashkenazi by minhag without being of European heritage, but otherwise almost all Ashkenazi Jews in the USA can trace their heritage back to Europe (and that includes most black Ashkenazi Jews and other Ashkenazi Jews of color). Ashkenazi Jewish culture formed in Europe and is still heavily derived from European-Jewish culture. I can't think of any reason to remove these categories, other than some archaic race-science idea that Jews are inherently non-European on account of ancient Levantine origins. I see that the "Middle Eastern" category remains, despite the fact that few Ashkenazi Jews are descended from modern Middle Eastern origins and the vast majority are descended from modern European origins. I'm not proposing we remove the Middle Eastern category, but to leave that category while removing the European one strikes me as bizarre. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 23:52, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Happy Passover!

Happy Passover!

Hello Evildoer187, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this passover. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a happy passover or easter, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy editing, 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (talk) 13:15, 17 April 2022 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Happy Passover}} to other user talk pages.

𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (talk) 13:15, 17 April 2022 (UTC)